Where is like between evolutionary attraction and personal taste?

Gravel_Roads · 2020-12-01T09:54:35+00:00

It's not ignoring our biological instinct, you're just putting too much assumption on how our instincts interpret what they want, as well as assuming that we only have one single instinct that we listen to at a time.

Let's explore, say... fetishes for GILF's. I have no personal experience with it (I tend to date people with in a few years of myself, like most people), but I could guess a few circumstances where it might happen:

A man might have been raised by an older woman, and thus he simply is sees her older features as normal for a woman to have, so he doesn't register her age as a turn-off.

A man might have a lot of insecurities, and prefer an older woman because she's more experienced -- especially if she fulfills the "gentle gramma" stereotype, and might thus make him feel comfortable and "safe" enough to enjoy sex.

A man might genuinely find older women more appealing, just because his brain is wired a little different. Maybe he likes that old ladies have soft skin, or that they are more mature, or that they're more chill because they have outgrown child-bearing years and thus don't suffer from the pressures of their biological clocks.

So where does this come from? What causes us to ignore our biological instinct like that?

Short answer: nurture. The natural counter to "nature". The culture we're raised in, whether we personally have positive or negative associations with something, our individual chemistry, the friends we keep, the media we consume, the music we listen to, the shows we watch -- all of these things can give us counter-options to what our instincts tell us to want.

This is value neutral. It's neither good nor bad. It just is.

Sufficient-Ad-3586 · 2020-12-01T09:55:44+00:00

[deleted]

MuTron1 · 2020-12-01T13:25:46+00:00

The problem with evolutionary attraction is that it ignores that we are the most socially complex animal on earth.

Our complex intellect and consciousness abstracts instinctual drives into something far more influenced by culture than the initial drive. Hence why “evolutionary psychology” is a pseudoscience; it is not possible to separate instinctual actions from the centuries of culture that we’ve built on top of it.

Dan240z · 2020-12-01T10:19:53+00:00

More like personal taste and simple convenience and location and opportunity when dealing with say a older female right now where in a place in time where outside factors like the media push for younger men to have a sexual relations with women beyond child bearing age. Nothing wrong with milf's as there expectations and demands are a lot lower than younger women. As for gilfs I would not know since I never been with a woman past 50.

2020-12-01T14:53:11+00:00

So where does this come from? What causes us to ignore our biological instinct like that?

Understanding they can't get what they really want or that there are downsides to it that are painful. If everyone was hardwired for "best or bust" throughout their entire reproductive life course we wouldn't be a very reproductively successful species.

wtknight · 2020-12-01T15:09:13+00:00

People are wired differently so what they find evolutionarily attractive can vary quite a bit.

In the case of breasts, for instance, some men might like larger ones because they are supposedly markers of greater fertility. Other men might like smaller breasts because women with smaller ones usually weigh less and a man might therefore feel more dominant around her. Both preferences have evolutionary reasons, but men are wired differently so they focus on one over the other.

Many other traits that people are differently attracted to can probably be explained the same way, although inexplicable fetishes do exist and in my opinion are probably best explained by a normal evolutionary preference that has been altered in some kind of way.

ANRthrowawayABF · 2020-12-01T16:52:52+00:00

IMO everything stems from evolution including personal preference, however some evolutionary traits contradict eachother.

Like with the milf thing, men like the idea of being nurtered by an experienced maternal figure but since she is unable to bear children it's repulsive, so we compromise.

Same as women with alphas, alphas are typically taller and stronger so able to provide security but they tend to be violent and can turn around and attack the woman or treat them poorly, so it's a compromise.

I think men have more evolutionary attractions for women to choose from than women do for men, hence why women have a narrower preference for Alpha types i.e. Hypergamy. I also think this is why men have more diverse interests in mate selection given there are more evolutionary attraction variables to choose from.

Tl;dr I think we compromise on certain evolutionary attractions depending on which ones we deem more important subjectively.

TheJim66 · 2020-12-01T11:13:28+00:00

The base is biological and personal tastes account for small superficial stuff. For example, all women find status attractive but what one perceives as high status another might be indifferent to. For looks , all women like tall broad shouldered men but some might like them with brown hair while others with blonde hair or stuff like that.

Nurture plays a role in attraction but it's very limited. Stuff like being turned on by beta traits, like some on this sub claim,are things that don't happen in healthy women.

Men are different however. Our sexuality is quite adaptive and we have evolved to find whatever is available attractive. We develop kinks at the drop of a hat.

Cimorene86 · 2020-12-01T13:02:39+00:00

Men who are tall and muscular/fit are universally attractive because muscles and height indicate strength and able to protect/provide

There are women who have a fetish for short and overweight/ non muscular men who would be physically unable to protect against harm.

So where does this come from? What causes us to ignore our biological instinct like that?

Alright, since I'm one of these women who like short and/or overweight men, I'll answer why I prefer these body types. I've reflected on it a lot and determined it is due to the desire for a feeling of comfort and safety.

I am unattracted towards men who are muscular and tall on a visceral level. My mind subconsciously sees them as threatening and potential sources of danger. I do not imagine their height and strength as being used to protect me, but rather to harm me. Like, the hsirs on my neck stand up and I feel adrenaline pumping. I'm sure that a lot of this has to do with the fact my father, stepfather, and male school bullies were all muscular or athletic types...you spend enough years of your life being hurt and molested and tormented by men who fit X Body Type, you'll learn to avoid it altogether.

Men who are overweight, soft, on the shorter side/my height could still overpower me for the most part, of course. But they don't look like it. They look warm and relaxing and comfortable and not intimidating whatsoever. Like sexy marshmallows lol. Men that are safe to be around. Safety and comfort, rather than excitement, is arousing.

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jdobrila · 2020-12-01T09:43:06+00:00

many

Found your weasel word. Kill it and try again.

x: there are even who have a fetish for older women (MILF/GILF) who are well beyond fertility and childbearing.

MILFs aren't beyond fertility and childbearing.

There are women who have a fetish for short and overweight/ non muscular men

I have literally never seen porn or erotica aimed at women with that kind of man.

Bandit174 · 2020-12-01T13:19:31+00:00

Not really sure but I view it that biology gives common default inclinations or mental functions and nurture can reinforce/work against those or sort of pass parameters into those functions that get evaluated.

I think most women are generally inclined towards men with a decent levels of facial symmetry and who displays some level of sexual dimorphism i.e. are taller, more muscular, deeper voice and create associations in their mind between those things and a state of arousal. Now how much taller, more muscular ect might vary from woman to woman.They don't all think a 6'5 guy built like a body builder is the ideal but I feel comfortable saying that most women seem to want a guy who is still taller and stronger than she is. Even women in South Korea who seem to prefer what women in America might consider more "feminine men" the men they prefer are still typically taller, more muscular and with deeper voices than the women. They still value facial symmetry even if not consciously thinking about it. Even babies supposedly show bias towards symetrical conventionally aesthetic faces. That seems to be common across different tastes. Like whether a girl likes a jock, hipster, lumber jack, businessman there will still be a commonality of finding facial symmetry/balance desirable across all those different aesthetics.

When people prefer something significantly out of the norm I think they probably had certain life experiences or factors in their upbringing where they created different associations in their head between things that are not innately/conventionally attractive with either a general arrousal or with other concepts that are desirable.

Notsonewguy7 · 2020-12-01T14:34:34+00:00

evolutionary attraction

General traits. Height, weight, youthfulness, muscles, etc. The proportion of the traits in Relationship to one another . Too young looking and too short generally bad (too young for children) too tall and old looking generally bad (past child rearing age).

personal taste?

More specific, Example: I like women with brown skin. Not very dark not very light but the middle. That's not a evolutionary Attracion because nothing about brown women is inherently better mother's or women. They just have a appearance I find more appealing.

stranglethebars · 2020-12-01T14:57:05+00:00

Women with large breasts and curvy bodies are universally seen as attractive as large breasts indicate fertility and health while wide hips indicate safe birthing.

While I'm not going to deny this, I have never read much about it, so: to what extent are women with large breasts supposed to be more fertile than women with small breasts? Then there is the question of the link between breast size and overall body mass.

To me, knowledge about a woman's fertility is irrelevant as far as sexual attraction goes. My taste is quite varied too, so I don't know how likely it is that I always get duped by traits that indicate high fertility.

cast-away-ramadi06 · 2020-12-01T15:45:21+00:00

As others have said, it's a nature vs nurture issue.

I prefer women with muscular dimpled bubble butts and a large A/small B cup, mostly because I've been involved in sports all my life, almost all the women in my family and that I grew up around were small chested and athletic, and I grew up in somewhat austere conditions for a portion of my life where not being in good of shape would have made life miserable and then spent a good chunk of my young adult life in may more austere conditions.

Sid_Insidious · 2020-12-02T02:41:27+00:00

The people our groins want are not always the best people for us. Often BOTH men and women will project good or compatible qualities onto someone just because they have good "groin factor".

An example is when speak of not "sticking it in crazy" - sometimes a woman can be very sexually appealing despite being absolutely batshit crazy. Perhaps her craziness acts as an amplifier for her sexuality, or even makes her seem more sexually available. Or maybe, she's just crazy and f***ks like a rabid little animal. But, crazy is bad for relationships because even an average "healthy" woman is by definition insane. (never happy).

BlackPorcelainDoll · 2020-12-02T06:10:03+00:00

Genitals

LooseIndication · 2020-12-02T16:16:04+00:00

Personal taste is also a tool of evolution. There is no line between personal taste and evolution.

2plus2s5 · 2020-12-01T11:22:16+00:00

If you can't have something, you often convince yourself you don't want it anyway.

Title	Where is like between evolutionary attraction and personal taste?
Author	Sufficient-Ad-3586
Upvotes	3
Comments	64
Date	December 1, 2020 9:41 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/k4hvla/where_is_like_between_evolutionary_attraction_and/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/where-is-like-between-evolutionary-attraction-and.329178 https://theredarchive.com/post/329178

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