What did she expect?!

tonysonic · 2018-06-07T07:31:26+00:00

Crosspost "WCGW Provoking the police..." from /r/Whatcouldgowrong:Posted by cmpcmurp | 5 June 2018 |...

[–]Flowzor 376 points377 points378 points 8 years ago (88 children) | Copy Link

[–]dienamight129 points 8 years ago [recovered] (62 children) | Copy Link

Some info:

Abusing a public official (cops are included in this) verbally or physically is a punishable offense in Holland. She did both. Safety of the officers is the police number 1 priority in situations like this. This is completely justified and has gotten nothing but positive response in Holland. The "Handen af van onze hulpverleners (hands off our first-aid helpers/first responders" mentality is really high, the Dutch part is a common saying. Additionally, the police are the most trusted authority/organisation in the entire country according to this research published some weeks ago. They rate higher than judges, who in turn rate higher than the general public/other civilians.

https://nos.nl/artikel/2233860-we-vertrouwen-de-politie-het-meest-en-de-kerk-het-minst.html

Police here aren't feared like in the USA and disrespecting the police like this is severely looked down upon

Edit: i got some questions about why they needed 7 cops and still hit her. Those cops are there for crowd control to ensure the safety of the officers. This is standard procedure, control the abuser with as little as possible officers so most can make sure the crowd disperses.

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Oh really? I had a cop threaten me with jail because I drove through an empty crosswalk when then light was green. He thought it was illegal, but he was wrong. I had another tell me to go fuck myself when I asked why I got pulled over. The reason she later gave me was, "Dirt on license plate". Another time I was handcuffed and put on the sidewalk for suspicion of drugs. I was a senior engineering student with no life, I had no drugs. I was late for an exam thanks to that. I had a gun put in my face for being on my cell phone at a red light. Cop claimed my phone was a gun. My favorite was when my parents thought I was depressed and called a family therapist for advice, so the therapist called the cops saying I was suicidal. They showed up at my apt with SWAT.

Nothing wrong eh? What would you call those?

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verbal_abuse

in case you want to brush up your Dutch, here's the law stating that it's illegal to verbally abuse an officer of the law in function. See article 267. Best thing is, they even use "Flikkers" as an example. This is exactly the words she used, Kankerflikker. Meaning Cancerfaggot

Artikel 261 - smaad en smaadschrift

Hij die opzettelijk iemands eer of goede naam aanrandt, door telastlegging van een bepaald feit, met het kennelijke doel om daaraan ruchtbaarheid te geven, wordt, als schuldig aan smaad, gestraft met gevangenisstraf van ten hoogste zes maanden of geldboete van de derde categorie.
Indien dit geschiedt door middel van geschriften of afbeeldingen, verspreid, openlijk tentoongesteld of aangeslagen, of door geschriften waarvan de inhoud openlijk ten gehore wordt gebracht, wordt de dader, als schuldig aan smaadschrift, gestraft met gevangenisstraf van ten hoogste een jaar of geldboete van de derde categorie.
Noch smaad, noch smaadschrift bestaat voor zover de dader heeft gehandeld tot noodzakelijke verdediging, of te goeder trouw heeft kunnen aannemen dat het te last gelegde waar was en dat het algemeen belang de telastlegging eiste.

Artikel 266 - eenvoudige belediging

1. Elke opzettelijke belediging die niet het karakter van smaad of smaadschrift draagt, hetzij in het openbaar mondeling of bij geschrift of afbeelding, hetzij iemand, in zijn tegenwoordigheid mondeling of door feitelijkheden, hetzij door een toegezonden of aangeboden geschrift of afbeelding, aangedaan, wordt, als eenvoudige belediging, gestraft met gevangenisstraf van ten hoogste drie maanden of geldboete van de tweede categorie. 2. Niet als eenvoudige belediging strafbaar zijn gedragingen die ertoe strekken een oordeel te geven over de behartiging van openbare belangen, en die er niet op zijn gericht ook in ander opzicht of zwaarder te grieven dan uit die strekking voortvloeit.

Artikel 267 - belediging ambtenaar, openbaar gezag, hoofd bevriende staat De in de voorgaande artikelen van deze titel bepaalde gevangenisstraffen kunnen met een derde worden verhoogd, indien de belediging wordt aangedaan aan: 1°. het openbaar gezag, een openbaar lichaam of een openbare instelling; 2°. een ambtenaar gedurende of ter zake van de rechtmatige uitoefening van zijn bediening; 3°. het hoofd of een lid van de regering van een bevriende staat.

Zoals u kunt lezen is de eenvoudige belediging als uitzondering geformuleerd op smaad geformuleerd. Wanneer er geen sprake is van smaad, terwijl toch de eer en goede naam van een ander wordt aangerand, is er sprake van eenvoudige belediging.

In de tenlastelegging zien we bij belediging van een ambtenaar in functie vaak de volgende omschrijving:

hij op of omstreeks [datum] te [plaats], althans in het arrondissement Utrecht, opzettelijk beledigend (een) ambtena(a)r(en), te weten [ambtenaar] en/of [ambtenaar 1] (respectievelijk brigadier en agent van politie Utrecht), gedurende en/of ter zake van de rechtmatige uitoefening van zijn/hun bediening, in diens/dier tegenwoordigheid mondeling heeft toegevoegd de woorden "Flikkers", althans woorden van gelijke beledigende aard en/of strekking.

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Interesting, it's odd that you would take a position that most people are disagreeing with and then not provide even a hint of proof to back it up?

That seems strange, and I personally would love to see this proven, because then I can say I learned something. I'd never be upset to be proven wrong, but saying "I'm too lazy to prove it but i'm totally right" is a convenient way of giving up.

You can claim whatever you want to as to the reason you won't cite any sources but at the end of the day if you cared enough to comment, you should probably care enough to at least show where you got this information, it would take you, I imagine, no time at all.

https://grammarpartyblog.com/2013/02/06/here-hear/
Writer graduated for journalism and has 10 years experience, maybe not a complete authority of this subject but I would say a credible source.

https://www.grammarly.com/blog/here-here-vs-hear-hear/ Grammarly makes a living on correcting peoples grammar, so if they had this incorrect I would imagine it would hurt their reputation, I believe this is a credible source.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hear,_hear Classic Wikipedia, obviously not a great source but typically it is not wildly off base on most topics, and does lead to other sources.

I legitimately looked and cannot find any sources claiming "Hear Here" is correct. Could you send me even one so I can read up on this and see where you are coming from?

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you're obviously an American, what you learn is bullshit, and you're stupid enough to believe it. let me explain something to you; many people in many countries hold people like you in contempt. think of a goat fucker. an uneducated shepherd in Asia who fucks goats. how backwards and ignorant they are. this is how people in Canada and Western Europe view you. what you believe is wrong, what you're asserting is wrong, and not only is it wrong, it's dangerous.

another thing about americans is they don't win fights. the last fight america won they withdrew after 1 month. when you pursue the full violence of action you end up doing far more harm than good and ending up in an 8 year long insurgency that you cut and run from leaving the country to end up in the hands of ISIS. moderation is paramount in any application of force. you would know this if you weren't completely ignorant. you wouldn't be completely ignorant if you didn't go out of your way to be extremely ignorant.

what you're asserting is so ludicrously wrong both morally and practically it makes me angry that anyone is willing, capable, and permitted to spread such vile slander. i would be extremely surprised if you are over 1.8m.

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Ok, I dont have time to check on some stranger's account to feel alive on the internet. The reason I'm here is Im taking a shit and Im still learning english as a second language so this is good practice. I believe this is as productive this conversation will get.

You just reek of insecurity man, thats all. I mean I cant imagine the person you describe braging on the internet about having sex. To prove a point against strangers he stalks at that. The whole second paragraph strengthen my argument and you make it sound like feminism=sex. Its creepy.

Its a wonderful thing, but equal rights, equal responsibilities and equal treatments.

If a man did what she did he might have got worst than that.

So this sub kinda celebrates feminism and equality. Doesnt mean I, or anyone here hate women. Its just funny!

Anyway we dont know each other but you seem "interesting". Im just playing with you . Its an easy game, so I can still concentrate on my bowels.

Talking of that, the shit has been taken. Gotta wipe.

But seriously give up the act and the online bitterness. You could use that energy to work on your attitude. Be kind, respectful, authentic and true to yourself. Then you could like, actually have sex!

Or maybe make a dear friend. Equal friends!

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I think getting hit is not an excuse but a good reason to hit back any gender.

Real feminism isnt obnoxious, you are. Equality isnt loud, you are.

And if it gives any weight to this argument (not that I think it does, every women have different opinions about this) but Ive been married for almost 10 years and my wife always supported my point of view on the subject.

I wont take my own time to educate you, I dont even believe its possible. Close minded, egocentric people care much more about their own appearence and reputation than the conversation itself.

If you think gender equality is bringing "down" women, It might be coming from you believing women are weaker and/or cant handle their own choices. Its ignorant, and it undermines your white-knight persona in the eye of real feminists.

In your case you sound like a wife-beater who tries to compensate with weirdly-formulated generic opinion you dont really understand the meaning.

Saying women are systematically the victim while defending feminism is hypocrite. Feminists dont want to be victims, thats the very point of equality. They want freedom of choice and the same treatment. Positive or negative, it comes hand in hand. A woman want to work hard and be successful, she can do so.

A woman, an adult even, has made the poor choice to drink too much and hit a police officer, therefore made a choice to suffer the consequences in this modern society.

Everything is rationial here, the whole context and suite of events feels logical, except for you.

Throwing meaningless insults to strangers wont change that. Doesnt make you feel better about yourself, and for sure doesnt make you appear more informed.

The term "moraly challenged" isnt just for nazis or mean people. Its also for those who think consequences dont apply the same way for everyone while talking about equality; for hypocrites.

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Her safety? You’re trying to tell me that a cop punching her in the face four times, pushing her, kicking her on the ground is all for HER safety?! Dude, what??

But, okay, fine. Lets entertain that. Say, she, somehow, manages to mount that officer and is about to lay a beating on him. There are 5 other cops RIGHT FUCKIN THERE. Before she gets one fist down, the 5 other cops would tackle her— unless drunk dutch women are lethal enough to kill 6 officers without batting an eye. This video proves they’re clearly not because she gets man-handled in every second of it. The only way she poses a threat is if she has a hidden weapon on her which, presumably, she’d have used on the cops at some point in the video to defend herself. She didn’t. You have no ground here dude. Its literally 1 vs. 6 and you’re all cheering on a woman getting beat for being a stupid drunk.

After this conversation, you are NOT allowed to have ANY stupid moments whilst drunk. The next time you drink, or smoke, or whatever, you are NOT allowed to act stupid, say something stupid, do something stupid— none of it. Otherwise, you are a hypocrite if you actually believe that the drunken swatting that, that lady did is worth a cop caving her skull in. If you do something stupid know that, by your own words, its totally fine for the police to beat the living snot out of you.

[–]Steelreign10 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]dienamight 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

She could scratch an eye out. Police don't take that risk.

Abusing a public official (cops are included in this) verbally or physically is a punishable offense in Holland. She did both. Safety of the officers is the police number 1 priority in situations like this. This is completely justified and has gotten nothing but positive response in Holland. The "Handen af van onze hulpverleners (hands off our first-aid helpers/first responders" mentality is really high, the Dutch part is a common saying. Additionally, the police are the most trusted authority/organisation in the entire country according to this research published some weeks ago.

https://nos.nl/artikel/2233860-we-vertrouwen-de-politie-het-meest-en-de-kerk-het-minst.html

Police here aren't feared like in the USA and disrespecting the police like this is severely looked down upon

[–]thefakesutten -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Okay cool. Sounds like she’ll get charged— and she deserves that. Does she deserve to get beaten by the cop, who has 4 or 5 other cops within striking distance? Absolutely not.

You make it seem like this drunk lady has the aim and the capability to scratch an eye put. So if the absolute worst that lady could have done is scratch an eye out, then the absolute worst the cop could have done was kill her— if you’re fine with that, then whatever. You’ll gladly support the police going around, killing people whilly-nilly when they, the police, feel justified. You would also be telling me that you’re fine with one man being the judge, jury, and executioner. I dunno how it works out in holland, but here it is innocent until proven guilty IN FRONT OF A COURT OF LAW. Not, in front of the police, not in front of a bunch of misogynistic nerds on reddit. Yes, it was done blatantly, on video, in front of tons of witnesses— great. More evidence to use IN COURT.

Tackle her, cuff her, charge her. Don’t kill her. Don’t beat her. Be better than her. Use the officer training that you were supposed to have received and de-escalate the situation by cuffing her— not beating her to a pulp. But whatever. Fine. If a cop ever uses excessive force on you or a loved you, you have no right to get mad about it because, according to you and the dutch, they can NEVER be wrong— if they are wrong, the other person is even MORE wrong, therefore, apparently, the cop is right. According to you, and the dutch, two wrongs somehow make a right.

It was excessive force. The lady needed to be punished, but not like that. There are 6 cops right there. Try to explain to me how 6 cops can’t apprehend one drunk woman. If they can’t they need better training.

Let me ask you: whats the point of the judicial system, according to you? Honestly? Whats the point? If the police are never wrong and every arrest they make is correct, and every beating they give is justified, why even have court proceedings? Why not just toss ‘em in the brig?

[–]dienamight 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago* (11 children) | Copy Link

Police don't need prove to restrain or use force on an aggressive person who is evading arrest, that's the same here as it is in Holland. If this was a man you wouldn't cry misandry, the misogyny doesn't make sense. A person is a person. They obviously tried to cuff her and she resisted. This is the next step. Police aren't going to take risks infront of a crowd with agressive people trying to hurt them, male or female. Killings by cop aren't common at all in Holland, like i said this is not the USA. It very rarely happens, not even one this year. The 6 cops were there for crowd control, as you can clearly see in the video. This is standard procedure. As little as possible arrest while the others make sure the crowd disperses. Cops won't use excessive force on me or a loved one as, like i said, cops are the most respected and trusted authority in the country. They score higher than other people and even neighbours. Things like this are very rare and excessive force therefore even more. She could walk and stand fine, there was no excessive force here, just the most efficient way to handle the situation. Even if the arrest wasn't correct, she abused the cop. The arrest can be wrong all you want, we both don't know, but because she abused the cop this was completely legal and no one will even look into it guarenteed. You respect cops here, even if they're wrong. If you're wrongfully arrested and you behave well you will most likely go free, there's a reason our prisoners per capita is one of the lowest in the world. Our judicial system is great. This is not the USA.

Here's an article about our prisons closing because we have too little prisoners. People here don't have to fear cops or the judicial system so things like this are rare and severely judged by the public. You don't attack cops.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dutch-prisons-are-closing-because-the-country-is-so-safe-a7765521.html%3famp

[–]thefakesutten 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Where in the video did the police try to cuff her? Is it before they pushed her? Or after the cop punched her in the face four times? Cause I didn’t see it. Who else in the crowd was trying to hurt the police? Who, exactly, and speak loudly so the court room can hear you, was being aggressive towards the police other than the woman? If they were there for crowd control, why, at the beginning of the video, were they all crowded into one corner? Thats bad crowd control tactics if you ask me. If this stuff rarely happens in Holland, why is the cop so afraid that this lady posses a massive, lethal threat? Punching people 4 times in the face, throwing them on the ground, kicking them while they are down is standard proceedure? Dude, what the fuck are you talking about? What the hell kind of country are you from? Punching someone multiple times, throwing them on the ground, kicking them, waving a baton around THEN arresting is THE most efficient way to handle her? Instead of, ya know, just tackling her and cuffing her?

The lady is absolutely in the wrong!!! I am not debating that! I am debating the cops use of excessive force— irregardless of the lady doing what she did. Cops are supposed to be better than the people they are arresting— according to you they don’t have to be because “it rarely happens here.” What happens when it DOES happen there? Do you all just shrug your shoulders and proclaim “well the police are ALWAYS right?” I get it, you love the police more than your mother, but it still doesn’t make it right. You say the police will “never” use excessive force on you or a loved one... what happens if they do? Seriously, what do you do then? What if you or a loved one ends up dead because of it? You just shrug your shoulders cause the police are always right, right?

Basically, all you have told me is that you are pro-police brutality “because it rarely happens here” and you are completely fine with ONE man being a judge, jury, and executioner. You are also fine with stripping away the human right to a fair and equal trial. That sounds like fascism to me. Is that really the side you’re trying to pull here?

[–]dienamight 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

You really like putting words in my mouth haha, fascism, saying i would defend cops killing for no reason, saying i think cops are always right. It's clear that you're more of an emotional than a rational person, that's alright, but can you maybe base a single argument on something i actually said instead of just assuming everything? I never said any of that. You're assuming the cop thinks she's a lethal threat. Again, i'm sorry, but that's another dumb assumption. What is it with you and over the top assumptions? She is a threat, no one said anything about lethal. Ironic how easily you assume things about what i think but you can't assume the cops handled the situation in a proper fashion before the video began. You really have no idea what you're talking about, you're only defending her because she's such a fragile woman. Get over yourself, she abused a cop, this is justified by law and by public opinion. Crowd control is not something done only when crowds get aggressive, it's always done in case crowds get aggressive. It's called preventing a dangerous situation and it shouldn't be that hard to fathom. She was already under arrest, don't you understand that? She RESISTED ARREST. The didn't punch her first, arrested her after. They arrested her, she didn't comply with the arrest so they had to take physical actions. If you don't even know what an arrest is it's hard to talk reason with you. Arrest is verbal. When an officer says you're under arrest, you are arrested. She bothers the cops, is pushed away, she hits the cop, he defends, then she's arrested and then she hits the cop again, resisting arrest. You are one to talk about police violence, look at your own numbers and then look at ours, it's clear to see that lethal force is astronomically less common here than in the USA. Punching someone who punches cops is standard procedure everywhere. Tackling is way more dangerous, cop will be on the floor in a vulnerable position. But you don't understand anything about how police do their job so it's logical your emotions get the best of you. The cops are better than the people they arrested. Those people were being aggressive in bars, the handcuffed the first person without problems, then made sure the woman wasn't a threat anymore either. This woman, like you said, was in the wrong, and the cops were better. Cops should be better, and here they clearly were? The didn't attack anyone unprovoked (woman did) they only retaliated (woman instigated multiple times) and they remained professional and controlled the situation. Your entire argument is based on me saying police are always right, funny thing is i never once said that. You are an emotional person and paint the worst picture of the cops, and me, in your head with all your assumptions. Your argument is based on zero facts. Non-lethal measures against aggressive people resisting arrest within reason is never excessive force. It's amazing how you bend the facts so extremely. Everything you say "i have told you" i literally did not say and do not believe. You are arguing against an enemy you made up in your own head. Saying that police can't act until there's been a trial is ridiculous and you know that, don't play dumb. Cops have to act in an instance to take out a threat to ensure the safety of themselves and others, they did the right thing and you can't accept that because she's only a fragile woman (who ATTACKED COPS MULTIPLE TIMES)

[–]thefakesutten 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

God you’re a fucking pussy if you think this lady posed a threat to six, trained officers. If she isn’t a lethal threat, why does the cop need to repeatedly beat her in her face? YOU don’t KNOW how much damage that can do! She could be retarded for the rest of her life because she made a stupid decision WHILE drunk. Don’t EVER make any stupid decisions while you’re inebriated otherwise you are a hypocrite.

Now, I didn’t put words in your mouth, I asked you questions. Feel free to try to actually answer them next time before trying to read me like a book and make assumptions about me (ironic, huh?)

You’re ONLY thinking about the safety of the cops here while also saying that violence against cops almost never happen there. Jesus christ, have some humanity dude. This lady posed literally no threat to 6 trained officers— oh boohoo the cop got a bruise on his arm. This lady could be a vegetable for the rest of her life after the blows that cop delivered to her face and you’re totally fine with it— you even support it.

Now, if this was a link to an article saying “woman sentenced to ‘x’ years for assaulting officers” I would be right there with you— it isn’t. Instead, its a cop using an excessive amount of force to apprehend one, singular drunk lady while 5 of his counterparts stand within striking distance of both of them. And you’re all cheerin it on. You all just watched a women get the snot beat out of her because she took some drunken swats at an officer. If this lady posed a legitimate threat, then I would also be with you— she clearly doesn’t. She gets tossed around like a rag doll all throughout the video. You guys keep talking about the “potential” threat she posed, how about we talk about the ACTUAL threat she posed which, according to the vide evidence, was slim to none. The officer got a few scratches. Boo fuckin’ hoo. Here’s a band-aid.

It may be legal, but that doesn’t mean its right. The lady engaged in the violence, and the cop was sure to retaliate with thrice the amount of pain and ten times the amount of possible destruction that he could have caused on her and her life.

Let me ask you the same question I asked another guy, and please actually respond to this one: what do you do if you see an officer beating your wife/daughter/mother. You don’t know why the officer is there, he just is and, boy, is he rocking your loved one. Do you just stand by and shrug your shoulders? What if he kills your mother/girlfriend/aunt because of too much trauma to her brain? What then? Is he officer still in the right?

[–]dienamight 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

YOU don't KNOW how much damage a drunk, I'd say already retarded without getting hit, woman can do. Would you say the same thing about someone why killed someone while driving drunk? Or raped someone while intoxicated? No you wouldn't because you only care about this because she's a woman. If a girl gets "raped" while both parties are drunk surely you'd take the girls side and say it doesn't matter that he was drunk! Same when there's a drunk driver. Being drunk is no excuse. If one of my family members would be treated like that i would be extremely fucking mad yes. At them. For being such a fucking idiot to ATTACK a cop like that MULTIPLE TIMES. I would say they fucking got what they deserved for harrasing and abusing cops, i guess victin morality is too much ingrained in you and you project it onto all women. She is not a victin she is an abuser.

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How is one drunk lady a threat to six trained professionals. Here’s the disconnect: she was drunkenly swatting at him. He could have gotten a black eye. He also could have killed her— his blows have a helluva lot more force and his aim is a lot better than hers considering he’s sober.

Look, I get it. This subreddit hates women. I expect our trained professional men in blue to act like the training they received is actually working. I expect the to be better than the annoying drunk ladies. You tackle her, cuff her, toss her in the drunk tank. She gets charged for “x,y,z” and serves time in jail because thats how the law works. This isn’t medieval europe. You don’t take an eye for an eye anymore. Did she deserve to get hit back? Sure! Does that mean you should? No! At some point an officer need to be able to face an incredibly minor threat and act with a little bit more of a standard than throwing fists, kicking someone while their down, whipping them on the ground and pulling out their baton. Seriously, who is more in danger in this video? The one, drunk lady or all six cops? If you tel me the cops are more in danger then, boy, you are pathetic. You must be afraid of puppies too.

[–]Brightblade216 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

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[–]thefakesutten 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Right, so what do we do then? Do you beat her unconscious and search the body for knives and then drag her away, or...? Do the cops just dance back and forth around the knife and wait for the SWAT team? Do you shoot her and kill her? Furthermore, that cop clearly wasn’t worried about a knife. The dude charged in there, fists first, no hesitation— certainly not enough to be afraid of get stabbed and he delivered some jarring blows. If she had a knife and sought to defend herself with it, surely she would have drawn it after one or two punches to the face, maybe? But no. She didn’t. There was no knife, so let just keep beating her some more. Just in case.

All I really am trying to say is that the cops could have handled it better. The lady is in the wrong. She should be cuffed and charged and serve a sentence. She should not be beaten to a pulp because of a few drunken swipes. That also is not giving her a pussy pass. If a man punches a cop, he gets convicted. If a woman punches a cop, she also should get convicted. Its pretty cut and dry.

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He didn’t have to wail on her face, dude.

He did. He was attacked with punches and was risking injuries.

She is easily over-powered— just look at the way she tumbles over after a little nudge from the female cop. She is also drunk. Tie her to a tree.

Easily tumbling is not equal to non-threatening. For all he knows she could have pushed a nail into his eyes, clawed him or something. As long as she can and does swing at him, she's a threat. Tying her to a tree requires getting handcuffs on her first, and people will spin that as abuse too.

If you’re a cop you are supposed to act to a higher standard that everyone else.

Not when in danger. These people don't sign up to get hurt. They accept the higher risk but they're not meant to suffer wounds because people want to be assholes. If he's attacked, he should stop the threat. That required a punch. I'm sure he tried verbal reasoning first as he's seen talking to her.

You don’t open a can of whoop-ass on what is an annoyance at worst.

Getting punched is not "an annoyance at worst".

If you can somehow convince me that one incredibly drunk women is a massive threat to four or five officers of the law, then I may switch sides....

I doubt I can because you seem to have your mind set. Regardless, it's not about her being a threat to all of them. It's about her being a legit threat to one of them, and him stopping her.

until then: the officer stooped down to her level— maybe even lower considering he is sober and she isn’t.

Self-defense is very different from attacking someone without good reason. He didn't stop down to her level. Also being drunk is NO excuse doe her action. She's fully responsible of her actions even while drunk.

Edit: This guy defends incels in his posting history while accusing me of hating women. This is comedy gold!

[–]thefakesutten -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

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[–]SingingValkyria 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Define "some force." Is "some force" Beating her unconscious? Or only enough to give her a concussion? is "Some force" breaking her nose or other bones? Is "Some force" killing her? You're using a very grey term there

You're exaggerating on purpose. Some force in this context was punching her. No one said anything about rendering her unconscious or killing her. She clearly isn't dead or unconscious so why even make that argument? The amount of force he can use is in proportion to the threat. He needs to neutralize her. You use enough force to stop her, and if she was carrying a knife or a gun then yes, enough force necessary might have been lethal.

one that could easily be twisted into other things. Have some humanity, dude.

Just stop. I can also create a hyperbole as an argument. Would you have been fine with her breaking his bones, stomping his face on the ground and killing him? Have some humanity, dude. God damn. He didn't kill her, he just stopped her. He's a human too, his badge doesn't change that. He's an officer, not a punching bag.

That women was completely in the wrong-- that I won't deny.

Good. She was, and suffered the consequences.

But seriously? That gives the cop a green light to do whatever he wants to the woman?

Of course not, and you know I don't think so either, so why you're purposely acting ignorant is beyond me. He should respond with adequate force to stop her, enough that is necessary to keep himself from harm. She hit him in the face, for all he knows she could at that moment have clawed him or poked his eye with a nail. She was an immediate threat and forfeit her rights of a peaceful arrest. So he punched her to stop her.

What if he killed her right then on the spot. Is that still okay? If not, at what point does it stop?

Holy fuck, just stop. Is AS MUCH FORCE AS NECESSARY such a hard concept to grasp for you? Fuck, man.

From this sub-reedits on side bar: "THIS IS NOT /R/BEATINGWOMEN. /r/pussypassdenied is not for misogynists, racists, or otherwise douchy types of individuals."

No shit, and no one is misogynist, racist or otherwise here. We're just defending a cop's right to protect himself from someone wishing to harm him. You're very easy to insult if you think police shouldn't have rights to come home safe.

But yea, since a cop is the one doing the beating its totally cool.

Fuck off. He's a human. You wouldn't be saying shit if he wasn't an officer. He tried making her stop peacefully until she attacked him, and he had to stop her.

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Let me retry this: No he didn't have to wail on her face. I guarantee a nice tackle would have been way more than enough.

If a cop is allowed to act irrational and out of fear and emotion when in the face of danger, then they need better training. Simple as that.

Getting punched from an annoying drunk lady is an annoyance at worst. If its more than that, get a different job. This lady is not a threat, the fact that you think she is, is absolutely pathetic.

A legit threat to one of them... Dude there are five or six cops within immediate striking distance. IF that lady was a real, genuine threat, do they just step backwards slowly? OR do they get in the frey and try to help? Are cops really that scared all the time? Are they really that pathetic? Is that what you're trying to tell me here? If they can't handle one drunk lady then, holy shit, club bouncers must be super men because, apparently, six cops can't handle one, singular drunk lady.

[–]SingingValkyria 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

He didn't act irrationally though. That's only your opinion of it from at home. In the clip you can clearly see her attacking him. When attacked he's allowed to strike back if he deems it necessary to defend himself. What you're doing is equal to people online asking "why didn't the cops just take the shooter? Stupid police brutality!". It stems from an ignorance of the danger a threat can pose and the effectiveness of methods in those situations.

Getting punched is never an annoyance, it's a legit risk. It's a risk that can cause injuries. You don't go to your work expecting have to stomach being punched, and neither do they. They are there to enforce the law, not act as punching bags. If they're attacked they're allowed to fight back.

And stop the strawman argument like the other guy with asking "Cant 5 cops stop her?!". Of course they fucking can. They just did. He even did it himself all on his own. You have to realize though that adding more people does not lower any risks of injuries, if anything it raises them. And being more people does not mean you're supposed to suffer abuse and injuries at work.

[–]thefakesutten -3 points-2 points-1 points 8 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]SingingValkyria 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

Right, yea, so lets allow the cop to continue punching this drunk, defenseless women over, and over, and over, and over again. Get a grip, hypocrite.

HE FUCKING DIDN'T. Watch the video you God damned idiot. Did you even spend two seconds doing that? He punched her only when she punched him. He didn't punch her "over and over". How much of a shitter do you have to be to deny it when the video is right there?

Sure, the cop just stopped her. Can he stop here without beating her unconscious?

She isn't unconcious.

Does she really deserve brain damage or broken bones?

She didn't get a brain damage or broken bones as far as we know. You're a moron. If she broke a bone due to attacking him however, then yes she would deserve that. She attacked him, these are just consequences.

ITs not okay for the lady to hit a cop-- completely true.

Yet you keep saying it is.

But its totally fine for the cop to beat her?

Yes, in self-defense.

The video ends with the cop whipping out his baton and throwing the lady on the ground.

Because she fucking hit him, you monkey.

How do we know he didn't beat her within an inch of her life right there?

Because we have NO REASON to assume he did. Have you seen anything of what happened afterwards? Do you have any valid reason to assume he kept beating her after the gif ended?

How WE know you didn't rape your parents after writing this comment, huh? Guess I better report you to the police, you rapist. After all, we don't know whether you did or not and in your world we assume guilt before innocence.

You're a moron.

[–]tonysonic[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]thefakesutten -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

We have no reason to assume he didn't either, Especially after he landed, and I counted 4 punches and one kick while she was on the ground in the span of about 5 seconds. The video ends with him throwing her on the ground with his baton out. Why did he have his baton out? To wave it around? To do some cool cheering skit? Or to beat her some more?

The lady swatted at the cop. The cop could have killed her. ITs appealing that your just totally fine with it. The consequences of assaulted an officer come later on in court where she serves time for assaulting an officer. That's how the law works. This isn't medieval times. The cops are NOT supposed to be run like a gang.

Hope you never have to deal with women in your life because of how much of a threat they are to you. Hope no-one ever swings at you cause it seems like your skin is made of paper, your bones of glass. Women must be so terrifying to you, you child.

[–]SingingValkyria 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

We have no reason to assume he didn't either

We have no reason to assume you didn't rape your parents either. Now give me your info so I can report you to the police.

Especially after he landed, and I counted 4 punches and one kick while she was on the ground in the span of about 5 seconds.

You counted wrong. He hit her once, the second punch missed. He never kicked her. He punched her again and then took out his baton, and we never saw him hit her with it.

The video ends with him throwing her on the ground with his baton out. Why did he have his baton out? To wave it around? To do some cool cheering skit? Or to beat her some more?

To threaten her, and in the worst case hit her with it. You sent only use batons to beat someone, they're used for a lot more. If they were just something to hurt people with, your fists would he fine. Google them.

The lady swatted at the cop. The cop could have killed her.

She could have permqnently blinded him, given him an infection, broken his nose, give him a scar on his face, get him taken out of action.

Hope you never have to deal with women in your life because of how much of a threat they are to you. Hope no-one ever swings at you cause it seems like your skin is made of paper, your bones of glass. Women must be so terrifying to you, you child.

I've dealt with plenty of women in my life. I'm not a mysogynist. Unlike you though, I'm not some cop-hating white knight either.

Also, why would a rapist like you be allowed near women? You're a rapist since we have no reason to assume you arent. I hope they jail you and never let a woman near you.

[–]lucamobu 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]thefakesutten 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

A quick efficient way? What, like tackling her and cuffing her? Or, punching her four times in the face, pushing her on the ground, kicking her, walking away, letting her get back up, pushing her down on the ground again and then pulling out a baton— which is what happened in that video. That was efficiency? The video was 26 seconds long. Maybe, 20-23 seconds of it was the initial struggle. It took that cop 20 some-odd seconds to push her down twice. by the end of the video, she is still not in cuffs.

Ever tackled someone from 5 feet away? Ever been tackled by someone 5 feet away? It’s generally a pretty quick exchange. Maybe, 2-3 seconds from you hitting the person to the person hitting the ground. So, you shave 20 some-odd seconds from the exchange right there.

Next, the 5 other cops there also pile on to the woman. They pin her legs down, grab her arms and cuff her. The exchange may take a bit longer— the lady will resist, or maybe not since she’s drunk. Either way, they get her in cuffs.

Next, they toss her in a squad car and haul her off.

In my exchange, the cop dispatches the threat quicker and more efficiently than in the video AND quicker than the way you defined. the lady gets charged for assaulting an officer, resisting arrest, public indecency, disturbing the peace, public drunkenness, and on, and on, and justice is done. She does time, thinks about her choices, and hopefully sober ups. Society as a hole is better that way. That is, actually, how the law works.

But yea, you want to beat her up first. Yea, lets break a nose, bust her lip, make her lose a few teeth. Yea! That’ll teach that bitch... right?

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I'm not though. You said it that way, that you'd applaud him if he wasn't a cop, but due to him being a cop you're instead shaming him for defending himself.

Guess what? No good role model would accept being punched in the face and just take it. They're regular human beings. Injuries hurt them, they get scared when attacked. Had she had sharp nails she could have poked an eye of his, given him an infection or clawed him in the face. You don't worry about this because you weren't attacked, or maybe you've just never been attacked, but judging the perfect amount of force when someone is hitting you is extremely hard. He was punched by her, and decided to punch back to neutralize the threat. It was an adequate response, it wasn't going overboard.

You're also massively understating her attack. He only hit her with his nightstick AFTER she came at him again. Watch the video again and you'll see that's exactly what happened. And unlike what some on here claims, we don't see if he keeps hitting her after she's on the ground or not, so we have no reason to assume he did so if she stayed put.

It was not unnecessary. It was an adequate amount of force proportional to the threat she was posing. She attacked him with punches, so he punched her back. She came at him again, so he hit her with the nightstick.

As you admitted, you don't actually think he used too much force for the situation (You even said you'd applaud it had he not been a cop). You're only giving him shit because he's a cop and you think he should have taken the abuse for that reason alone. That's not twisting your argument, that's using your very own words.

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What last comment? Your last comment to me was:

Weasel out of what? You're the one saying it was justified, even if he hadn't kicked her do you also not see him clearly beating her with the baton after pulling her while she's already being held?

to which I responded:

No, don't try to weasel out of this. You and four others have written that he kicked her, but he never does that in the video. I want to see the exact second he kicks her. Where did he kick her, if you all actually watched the video?

Are you new to Reddit, intellectually challenged or delusional enough to think I check your activity to see comments not directed to me?

I adressed it. Did you see how quickly you weasel out when I called your shit out? How I could immediately tell you didn't watch the video because there was no kick, and proving you were just parroting other comments?

I also answered your baton question. He hit her AFTER she attacked him. It's what the end of the video is. She hits him again, and he hits her with the baton. Then the video ends. You'd know that if you watched it. Now do answer what I haven't answered, and admit there is no kick.

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Crosspost "WCGW Provoking the police..." from /r/Whatcouldgowrong:

Comments

EQUAL RIGHTS EQUAL LEFTS

Title	What did she expect?!
Author	tonysonic
Upvotes	1551
Comments	378
Date	June 7, 2018 7:31 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PussyPassDenied
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/pussypassdenied/comments/8p8dir/what_did_she_expect/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PussyPassDenied/what-did-she-expect.1177508 https://theredarchive.com/post/1177508