Why don't we get any say in whether our child is born?

hardwarequestions · 2012-01-20T01:48:00+00:00

Except if it's born, I have to pay for it. If I don't support it by marrying the woman, I have to pay child support. So why don't I get to have a say in whether the child gets born?

I'm just annoyed that if I ever get into a situation where, through some mistake, I've somehow impregnated someone when I didn't mean to, and they don't want to abort it, I'm fucked. I get no choice.

this is why MRA's are such proponents of what's generally referred to as a financial abortion option. we fully agree (mostly) that it's too difficult and dicey to let men have a say in the actual abortion or birth of a kid, so we want an equivalent option. we want to be able to sign away all rights AND responsibilities for the child. we're willing to not make it difficult for the women to have the child if she wants to, and to not attempt to be a part of the child's life since we don't want to, but we insist that we aren't to be held financially responsible for what we don't want too.

2012-01-20T17:18:06+00:00

For the simple fact that it's her body, her choice. You have no say in what she does with her body - nor should you. On the flip side of that coin, she shouldn't have a say in whether or not you'll become a father and/or be forced to pay child support for 18-25 years. That's why so many MRA's are proponents of Legalized Paternal Surrender, in which a man can forfeit all rights and responsibilities to a child before that child is born. Further information for you OP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRdq2zqGxgY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFYxlmRRnkw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3UmXu97yRQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50UCPLmNdnM

Saint_ · 2012-01-20T14:05:09+00:00

The societal idea is that if a woman inadvertently gets pregnant, and you tell her she has to bring it to term, she should have kept her legs together, then you're a sexist asshole prude.

But if a man inadvertently gets a woman pregnant, well, HE SHOULD HAVE KEPT IT IN HIS PANTS.

So, I do.

zoobiezoob · 2012-01-20T15:15:01+00:00

figure out a way to not force the woman into being your fetus's life support system and things may change.'Til then a woman's choice has to come first.

2012-01-20T18:00:40+00:00

As a woman, I agree that men should not have to pay child support if he tells her that if the condom broke or the birth control didn't work he wouldn't support a child. If a woman doesn't want to risk the huge responsibility of a baby on her own, then they shouldn't have sex. It's just sex. Both of you can find someone else to sleep with that had similar views.

Now, if you guys do it with out ANY protection, then come on that was just stupid. To me, that's a contract from both parents that they will either both pay for an abortion, or raise the lil fucker. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. And this is towards both genders.

fondueguy · 2012-01-20T06:45:59+00:00

If it were automatically your kid then you would have the right to defend said kid... But you don't.

The problem is that she isn't taking responsibility for her unilateral decision.

mikesteane · 2012-01-20T08:37:51+00:00

It might not even be a mistake. There was a case where a woman stole semen from a condom and used it to impregnate herself. The "judge" ruled that the man had made a gift of it by having sex with her.

In another, very recent, case the woman forged his signature on IVF documents.

AdonisChrist · 2012-01-20T03:47:01+00:00

The simple answer, a man shouldn't be able to force a woman to have or not have a woman beyond her wishes. That being said, a woman should not be able to force a man to pay/raise a baby that he didn't want either. If the woman has the option to abort his child, he should have the option for a financial abortion (excluding all contact/relation with the child, but doesn't have to pay child support.) However, even though a woman can choose to have the baby he doesn't want, he shouldn't force her to have one that she doesn't want. It isn't completely fair, but this is one of those cases where there is no way to ethically make it completely fair, and the woman should have the choice in this case (since she would have to go through pregnancy/childbirth.) A man still should have the option to "abort" a baby that he doesn't want, just as a woman can do the same.

AdonisChrist · 2012-01-20T01:44:49+00:00

You do have a choice. Change jurisdiction before the child has been born; become a citizen in another country without child support laws and renounce your current citizenship. Then child support laws no longer apply to you, given that the country doesn't have an extradition agreement with the one you're currently in, and you will have broken no laws.

First of all it's unlikely that the woman will be able to or even bother to try to find you as you've vanished. If she does find you she won't be able to do anything as child support laws no longer apply to you assuming you've moved somewhere without such laws and without an extradition agreement(there are such countries).

Then all she can do is take responsibility for her choice. Few go to such drastic measures, but if you wanted to you could make her have to own up to her responsibilities alone.

geodebug · 2012-01-20T17:05:58+00:00

This video was posted awhile back and I saved it as a favorite.

She does a great job discussing the issue and, surprise, she is pro-MRA on this topic.

TheGentlemanZombie · 2012-01-20T02:16:39+00:00

You know, you could just disappear into the woodwork forever. You wouldn't have to pay a dime after that. Some people might not like that option, though.

Messiah · 2012-01-20T17:41:50+00:00

I do not think it is wrong. You both fucked up. No sex is safe sex, and you are aware of potential outcomes.

If you cannot agree on the life of the child, I would not err on the side of abortion. I would like to think you would respect the woman you slept with enough to not convince her to kill her child if she does not want to. It is as much hers as it is yours. That is why you will be responsible for it as well. It certainly cannot be responsible for itself.

Don't play with fire never expecting to get burned. If you had a mistake pregnancy, it might very well be one of those mistakes that you have to live with.

dannyigl · 2012-01-20T07:27:31+00:00

The downside is that men will have to ask for women to grant them parenting rights. Let's say a woman gets pregnant. The father wants to be a dad, but the mother doesn't want him to be. She is capable and wanting to raise the child herself or with a new partner. If neither the act of having sex or biology determine a man to be the father, and the logic being used is that she made all the choices herself and chose not to abort, then how would the biological dad have any legal claim to the child?

I think financial abortion would benefit us most of the time, but their are a few cases where I could see men really getting screwed. I would rather see no welfare and men getting shared custody with no support or something that is more fair, but with each parent taking equal responsibility.

BinaryShadow · 2012-01-20T14:00:00+00:00

Because SOMEONE will need to support her "choice" to be a mother. The government or you. Guess who has all the guns.

NiceGuysSTFU · 2012-01-20T15:13:36+00:00

Because this thread comes up every fucking week, I think it's imperitive to point out that one cannot raise a kid solely on child support. It is simply meant to supplement the custodial parent's financial obligations toward raising the child. But go on and cry about your need for financial abortions...

ghebert001 · 2012-01-20T04:58:09+00:00

This is why men should have the ability to have "financial abortions". Feminists will never let that happen though...because then they know they would have to own up to their poor decision making instead of depending on someone else to support them. I think this factors a lot in a woman's decision to keep the baby and that there would either be more abortions if there was no guarantee of financial support or women would be much more cautious about who they sleep with and would only sleep with someone who they know wants a child with them instead of some random dude at the bar who just wants to get laid, in the end, greatly reducing unwanted pregnancies.

hardwarequestions · 2012-01-20T01:47:43+00:00

[permanently deleted]

StefanHectorPoseidon · 2012-01-20T02:52:28+00:00

[permanently deleted]

dannyigl · 2012-01-20T18:37:30+00:00

Seems like men will always have to ask permission from the mothers to be fathers to their own children, if the logic is used that women make all the choices to bring children into the world. How the hell do men become fathers if it is not by having sex and not determined by biology?

Title	Why don't we get any say in whether our child is born?
Author	AdonisChrist
Upvotes	20
Comments	95
Date	January 20, 2012 1:29 AM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/oo6hr/why_dont_we_get_any_say_in_whether_our_child_is/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/why-dont-we-get-any-say-in-whether-our-child-is.1029003 https://theredarchive.com/post/1029003

Comments