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[–][deleted] 17 points18 points19 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Can we channel our outrage into finding the school, the victim, and convincing him to press charges or at least taking this public?
[–]effarve 13 points14 points15 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
im not trying to say he asked for it at all, and no one deserves that shit. Maybe thats why i was never a cool kid... Cause every time someone tried to shame me into doing stupid shit like that just to fit in, i literally told them to get fucked... I dont get it at all... I just dont.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
A lot of people in those social organizations don't expect this kind of behavior. A lot of schools have pretty rigorous standards of what is and is not considered hazardous or illicit hazing.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
He shouldn't have worn that dress.
[–]girlwriteswhat 34 points35 points36 points 14 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link
Holy shit. That's all I can say. And the, "Well, he volunteered to be hazed," reply? WTF?
[+][deleted] 14 years ago* (18 children) | Copy Link
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[–]CDClock 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Pretty sure that if this kid brought this issue up with the school they'd get in SOOOOOO MUCH shit
[–]Aikidi -5 points-4 points-3 points 14 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link
To be fair, outrageous hazing isn't a male only thing in college. Acting like it is is disingenuous.
[–]theozoph 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link
That wasn't the point. You're the disingenuous one here.
[–]Aikidi -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link
I don't think so really. This is another case of Mens Rights taking an issue that affects both genders to horrendous results and making it a gender issue. Tons of sororities at my school have been suspended because of doing shit way milder than what was described, and many frats have not been expelled for doing much worse. UT has a really big greek life, and to ensure student safety the school has an incredibly strict hazing policy. In addition, the State of Texas prosecutes people for hazing as a criminal matter regardless of gender. A failure to come after the people that victimized this guy is a failure of the legislature and school, but isn't necessarily a gender issue.
[–]Celda 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
Actually, it is a fucking gender issue when the poster says "if I see a guy bound and gagged for a day, crying for help while others stick a dildo up his ass, that's fucking hilarious.
If a girl's in that position though, I'd help her because she's a victim."
[–]Aikidi -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
I was speaking more of the practice of hazing at large versus the one guy being an ignorant jackass. If we want to waste our time raging about one dude who is clearly a misandrist idiot that condones sexual violence, that speaks volumes about this subreddit. Of course he's wrong. We don't need to talk about how wrong he is, anyone with a brain can tell.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
Well then, do you agree that there are a lot more people like him (both men and women), than there are people who would have reacted the same way to a girl being sexually abused? Do you agree that there's a gender disparity here?
If not, we still have something rather important to talk about.
[–]Aikidi -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
I don't think any answer to that question could hope to be more than pure speculation based on personal bias, and as a result I don't think it is useful. What is useful is discussing and actively trying to end sexual abuse of all kinds, especially those committed by greek organizations in the name of hazing.
[–]rantgrrl 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link
You're being stupid.
You honestly don't believe that the reaction would be different had a bunch of frat brothers duct tapped a girl to a chair and raped her with a dildo? (Or even took peeks at her junk while shoving a dildo in her face, which is the 'milder' interpretation of this event.)
Hell, everyone went nuts a while back when a bunch of frat boys just shouted 'no means yes, yes means anal' at the women's center of a university.
[–]intensely_human 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes Aikidi that's exactly the point here.
Sororities get suspended for doing less, and fraternities get away with doing more. That is precisely the point of the original post: that if the genders were reversed, i.e. if this were a sorority girl getting hazed in this way, there would be an uproar but in this case there isn't.
[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That's fucking reverse-gender slut shaming right there!
[+][deleted] 14 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]Celda 15 points16 points17 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Hang on, it's one thing to agree to doing some non-harmful "tasks". It's another thing to be tied up, gagged, FOR 24 HOURS, WITH A DILDO UP YOUR ASS.
If he in fact agreed to that, then that's fine. But I'm pretty sure they didn't say "aight bro, if you want in, you gotta let us tie you up for a full day with a dildo up your ass, sounds good?"
[+][deleted] 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]ENTP 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Exactly. Shit like this is why I never joined a frat.
[–]purrit 55 points56 points57 points 14 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
looks like Temseh and the sorority girls are part of rape culture
[–]BinaryShadow 33 points34 points35 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Silly! Boys can't get raped. Those were tears of sexual stimulation in his eyes!
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Aerik made a comment in another thread on this picture, to the effect of "and people are still saying rape culture doesn't exist?!" ... and got modded to 100+.
[–]rantgrrl 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I think Aerik means that--obviously--this assault on a young man which wouldn't have happened if it was a young woman(because someone would have intervened) means that young women are more oppressed by rape culture due to... grand flourish patriarchy.
[–]barbadosslim 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
no, the point is that rape culture hurts men, too
[–]rantgrrl 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Funny. If there is a rape culture it seems to hurt men more. And women far less.
[–]skratakh 9 points10 points11 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
i'm from the UK so i don't really know what the "greek system" is other than the people talking about fraternities and sororities in american media. i can't believe this sort of thing goes on, it seems really bizarre and tribal. how can a university allow this sort of thing to go on.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
They usually do not allow it. The problem is that hazing of this variety is woefully under-reported.
[–]madeanewaccountt 38 points39 points40 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
yeah that school would get shut down.
[–]Bobsutan 16 points17 points18 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
And those who did it would be in prison, and possibly those that passed by without helping and just laughed might be charged if that state has good samaritan laws.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I hope so
[–]Kuonji 19 points20 points21 points 14 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Our society expects pain and humiliation to sometimes be a rite of passage for boys/men. At least significantly more often than it is for girls/women. It sucks.
[–]Demonspawn 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Our society expects pain and humiliation to sometimes be a rite of passage for boys/men.
Boys must prove value to become men. In most cultures it is their ability to provide for or to protect a family.
Girls become women when they can have children and create a family.
So, in a sense, both "become adults" when they can prepare the next generation. The trials are, of course, more harsh for the males because of the biology of reproduction.
[+][deleted] 14 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Did not connect. Why would that matter?
[–]girlwriteswhat 7 points8 points9 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I'll take the periods any day...
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Most women act like it's a greater hardship than any man could ever know, so hats off to you for not.
[–]girlwriteswhat 7 points8 points9 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
If we were talking about childbirth, I might feel a little differently. Periods are an inconvenience. But yes, I think historically in many cultures, the onset of menses was viewed as the transition from girl to woman. It still is, to a degree, in that if you're a late-bloomer like I was you begin to feel like there's something wrong with you, or like you've been excluded from the new in-group (those who got theirs) by nature and your own body. "OMG, why hasn't it happened!" I mean, I didn't obsess about it to the degree some girls did, but I did get impatient.
I don't think periods have been viewed this way because they're particularly onerous, but because they're an "event" in a way that the gradual change of puberty is not. Additionally, they were an event that demonstrated a woman was ready and capable for her primary role as a woman in society--motherhood. (we are talking history here, right?)
The only corollary, naturally-occurring event I can think of that would apply to men would be either first ejaculation (historically problematic since masturbation was discouraged by many cultures), or first sexual intercourse (also historically problematic, since premarital sex was discouraged or prohibited, and one would not allow one's daughter to marry a "boy"--he must be a man to be ready for marriage).
So yeah, an "event" had to be created by cultures to transition boys into men. And because the expectations that went along with his role in society were those of protector/provider rather than just ability to procreate, it was frequently a difficult and onerous challenge, so that he could prove he was up to the role expected of a man.
[–]rantgrrl 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Actually, girls had their own initiations as well. Usually it involved a long period of meditation in seclusion after their first period. (And if anyone doesn't think this was a trial, it's actually very similar to some of the final 'tests' a buddhist monk goes through after he's trained for years. Sitting by yourself in isolation is hard work.)
But European colonialists thought that was barbaric to do to the precious flowers of womanhood and stopped it in many cases. The boys getting their hands shoved in vats of fireants, being suspended by hooks, jumping off structures tens of feet high with a vine tied to their ankles... these things, on the other hand, were okay to the Europeans.
[–]mads-80 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Possibly. They have a clear demarcation of the onset of adulthood, for boys it would have to be ascertained by a test.
[–]acolossalbear 13 points14 points15 points 14 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
http://www.reddit.com/user/Temseh
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/jyln4/i_am_temseh_ama/
[–]BinaryShadow 29 points30 points31 points 14 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
Here's some gems:
Helped, as I have whenever I see a girl in trouble at my college, usually at the hands of a fraternity brother. I help a victim, not a volunteer. Dumb pledges subjecting themselves to hazing is funny, innocent girls being taken advantage of is not. I don't see why Reddit can't make the distinction.
Helped, as I have whenever I see a girl in trouble at my college, usually at the hands of a fraternity brother. I help a victim, not a volunteer.
Dumb pledges subjecting themselves to hazing is funny, innocent girls being taken advantage of is not. I don't see why Reddit can't make the distinction.
I don't see why either. I mean, it's easy. Women > Men. Duh!
[–]Ishmael999 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I just don't understand how they can not see that even though one of them is "voluntary" it's obviously coercion. The school is set up so that people who aren't part of the Greek system feel like absolute outcasts, but to be in the Greek system you have to be a loser. It's completely unconscionable, and Temseh is a soulless asshole for acting like it's okay.
[–]Alanna 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
He deleted that one, this is new account:
http://www.reddit.com/user/Temesh
[+][deleted] 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]BarryOgg 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
No. Not cool, not welcome here. This is the kind of shit that makes /amr sound legitimate.
[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
We are not 4chan. Some days that's good, some days it's not.
[–]elebrin 9 points10 points11 points 14 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
This isn't what the Greek system is about. As someone who had a very positive experience in the Greek system, I can tell you that if a chapter of my fraternity did this and I was in a position of authority I would revoke their charter and deny recolonization for the next four years.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I'd make it a good decade, just to be sure. And of course expel anyone involved.
[–]elebrin 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Given that one year of not being able to initiate is generally enough to kill a chapter, 4 years is long enough to make sure all responsible have dropped out or graduated. By revoking their charter, you aren't kicking them out of the organization but you are taking away their house and their ability to sign out meeting rooms at the school in most cases.
If you were to kick them out 100%, then you have guaranteed that you will never get a donation from them ever and given them motivation to do something really annoying, like publish your ritual book online.
[–]notkenneth 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Four years seemed to work for my chapter. They were kicked off and had their charter revoked in 1996 (I still don't actually know what they did to merit that, but I'm sure they had it coming) and recolonized in 2000. Everyone involved with whatever was going on in 1996 had long since either graduated or left and after restarting (probably because all of the members were selected by the National Organization) we were the most by-the-book fraternity on campus. No hazing, highest Greek GPA and pretty solidly committed to the positive things that come out of fraternities and excluding everything we could of the negative stereotypes. Hell, even drinking legally while wearing anything that had the fraternity's letters or name on it was frowned upon, because it just feeds back in to negative stereotypes.
We weren't the most popular fraternity on campus (because we didn't have ridiculous keggers), but actually being decent people seemed like it was worth it.
[–]elebrin 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Sounds very much like my chapter as well. Our house was dry, and for 5-6 years in a row we had the highest average GPA of any other student organization, Greek or non-Greek. Part of that was very strict requirements for membership (they only took people with high grades to start with). We also had a similar culture of taking off the letters when you go drinking. My chapter was colonized in 1996 and chartered in 1998, and is the most recently founded Greek chapter on campus (granted there are like 12 or 15 others to pick from).
Greek life is a support system for college. You no longer have your parents to fall back on when something goes wrong, so it is nice to have brothers that will help you out.
lol, "recolonization". Frats are fucking wierdos.
[–]elebrin 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
A "colony" is a chapter that is just forming, before they have gotten their charter. Generally they have fewer votes at conventions. They usually are a colony for 2-3 years, or until they have 20-30 members. During this time, the national headquarters helps them gives them extra help writing their bylaws, running the chapters, and doing initiations. Sometimes fraternities won't even let a colony initiate without reps from the national organization there; they want to be sure you perform the ceremony correctly.
There is nothing all that weird or bizarre, and I think one of the best places to support or discuss men's issues is in a setting that is exclusive to men. I personally belong to a Greek-letter fraternity as well as a fraternity that isn't Greek-letter. It is a HUGE part of my social life. In my 10 years experience with these organizations, I have never hazed or been a party to hazing of any nature. Our potentials, associate members (NEVER pledges), and candidates are treated with the utmost respect and dignity.
[–]Elonine 13 points14 points15 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Man, I'm so sad for missing "the college experience"
I thought it was the shit at the time. But looking back I could have been doing so much more. In a lot of ways those years were kind of a waste.
[–]InfinitelyThirsting 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is why I refused to even consider colleges with Greek houses.
I'm not against consensual masochism, but the subject had obviously withdrawn his consent.
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I find that hard to believe that anyone could be that fucking stupid, maybe it's just an amazing troll?
[–]nepidae 8 points9 points10 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Apparently you never lived in the dorms. The stupidity (of which sometimes I took part) was incredible.
[–]Himmelreich 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
What the fuck?
Fuck what the?
什么鸟？
Kya yeh hai?
Qui, pourquoi?
...为什么？
等一下，需要枪毙人。
my thoughts about this, in chronological order.
[–]theozoph 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I'll upvote if you can do it in egyptian hieroglyphs.
I'm not sure UTF-16 supports hieroglyphics. :(
[–]rantgrrl 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
My God.
[–]NovemberTrees 12 points13 points14 points 14 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Not rape according to the FBI.
Yeah well it's not rape because penetration never happened. Which wouldn't be rape regardless of the sex. Still sexual assault.
[–]sinlad 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
If you actually read the post you're referencing, you'll see that it is confirmed that men can get raped by the FBI's standards.
[–]Bobsutan -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
He did mention that the dildo was never actually PIITB, that it was "just" sitting there tucked inside the waistband. Still a misandrist though for his perception of the world and double standards.
[–]masonmason22 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
"Basically fucking him up with the dildo"?
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
While easy to miss, the "up" is critical in that sentence.
[–]masonmason22 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Even if there is no penetration, then they're still beating someone who is tied up, over an extended period, isn't that called torture?
[–]Amunium 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Temseh has clarified, that meant hitting him with it.
[–]Bobsutan 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, it sounded like back-peddling to me too.
[–]NoSalt 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You are 100% correct. If that had happened to a female, the entire campus and surrounding city would be on lock-down until somebodies balls were in a vice. It's complete BS!
[–]PlaySwitzerland 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
There is absolutely NO disrespect here, but this gender v. gender debate isn't getting us anywhere. RAPE IS WRONG. Who gives a fuck what sort of genitalia the rapist possessed? The aforementioned story is horrible. No one deserves it. C'mon.
[–]theozoph 12 points13 points14 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
There is absolutely NO disrespect here, but this gender v. gender debate isn't getting us anywhere.
What do you mean? Is it wrong to point out the double standard men & women are subjected to when it comes to sexual assault?
Sexual assault on men : funny, probably consensual, humiliation deserved, totally OK to joke about it, totally OK if no one stops it.
Sexual assault on women : horrible, people laughing about it are monsters, people who participated or watched should be in jail.
If both situation elicited answer N°2, then yes they wouldn't need to be a gender vs gender debate. But until that happens, bringing up the double standard is the only way to make things change.
The problem is that this really emphasizes how people trivialize abuse subjected against men. Men can "handle it," even if they don't volunteer for it.
[–]shady8x 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
That is exactly why this example is being pointed out. As every single person that saw that kid get raped and did nothing to stop it has shown, in our society, rape is not wrong when it is being done to a man. No matter how many times he says no.
This should be changed and the first thing needed in order to change it is raising awareness about it. Burying your head in the sand and pretending that it already is, doesn't help anything.
[–]barbadosslim 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Exactly. This is definitely part of rape culture.
[–]PlaySwitzerland 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I agree that it is part of rape culture and that people should be aware. I'm definitely not burying my head in the sand. I disagree that our society as a whole think that rape is okay when it's done to a man. The problem in this particular situation is that people thought this was "hazing" and not rape. That's another huge problem. Universities typically handle these types of situations poorly.
[–]DomesticApe 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
My douche-bag sense is tingling.
[–]therealxris 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
So.. imagine if a group of college girls was sodomizing one that was tied up? I've seen a number of videos that follow that trope.
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