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What is the 'Women are Wonderful' effect?

TheTinMenBlog · 2020-08-24T15:05:56+00:00

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TheTinMenBlog

August 24, 2020

107 upvotes

/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates

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Title	What is the 'Women are Wonderful' effect?
Author	TheTinMenBlog
Upvotes	107
Comments	40
Date	August 24, 2020 3:05 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/ifqpj7/what_is_the_women_are_wonderful_effect/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/what-is-the-women-are-wonderful-effect.1062914 https://theredarchive.com/post/1062914

Comments

[–]SchalaZeal01 39 points40 points41 points 5 years ago (28 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheTinMenBlogvalued LWMA contributor[S] 9 points10 points11 points 5 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]2717192619192left-wing male advocate 10 points11 points12 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]true-east 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]SchalaZeal01 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]true-east 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]SchalaZeal01 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]true-east 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]yoshi_win 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]BrokenDeity1-1 points 5 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

There is no misogyny. You are promoting a feminist lie. Misandry and androphobia is the norm.

Feminism is a hate movement and should be treated like any other. With absolute disdain and intolerance. Reasoning with women is a waste of time as they're either indifferent or in favor of male oppression and enforcement of gender roles that benefit them.

[–]2717192619192left-wing male advocate[M] 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]GingerRazz 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]freak-000 -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]TimothyGonzalez 26 points27 points28 points 5 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]Julia_Arconae 12 points13 points14 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I agree, I feel this is merely an erroneous extrapolation of the patriarchy theory, that any negative impacts on men due to societal gender rolls, restrictions, expectations and socialization must inherently be the result of misogyny towards women designed to enforce male dominance.

This is a big issue I have with various feminist branches of thought. That due to the fact that the socio-political philosophy of the movement was initially rooted in and has developed over time as a response to the disenfranchisement of women, ultimately the worldviews created are inherently gynocentric.

There is much of value in the debates and discussions held within the feminist community, but the basis through which their ideas are generated leads to only a narrow perspective of societal gender issues in the world.

[–]_scheme 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

... ultimately the worldviews created are inherently gynocentric.

...

There is much of value in the debates and discussions held within the feminist community, but the basis through which their ideas are generated leads to only a narrow perspective of societal gender issues in the world.

In theory, it should be fine that feminism is gynocentric. The name itself tells you that it is. Women should be (and are) allowed to advocate for themselves. The subsequent issue of limited perspective should also be fine, because we are all limited by our own perspectives. However, I think the actual reason that it becomes problematic is because people are constantly claiming that feminism is the only lens through which we should view all the world's problems, and the only tool we need to fix them while denying that it even is gynocentric.

The effect is almost like gaslighting, where men's advocates are shamed and stigmatized into silence because "feminism is everyone", but then within feminism men's issues are either ignored or waved away with trite aphorisms ("it's OK to cry") or victim blaming. If it can't be easily blamed on misogyny or the patriarchy, it will be silenced, and the feminists will say "feminism is for women first".

I don't believe that all feminists are really interested in denying men societal help, but many of them are, and many more others are not concerned that it happens.

[–]freak-000 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]SchalaZeal01 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I don't. Being condescending is literally that

Are you condescending to VIPs in your restaurant for reserving your best table, have a chef work just for them, etc?

Reserving better treatment to some people and not others, is not condescension, its literally mistreating the rest of people. Especially since in real life, it often means profiling men, finding it acceptable to consider them pedophiles first if they're near kids (in planes, in schools, in daycares, babysitting, in parks), attributing malevolent intentions to the most innocuous comment or behavior (creep, police behavior with unarmed men) and treating them like ATMs (bars, clubs, the entire legal system).

All stuff women get the benefit of the doubt, even women who fall out of favor of society for other reasons (poor, crass, prostitute, drugged). They won't be treated like shit by default, be presumed hostile, evil or only useful tools.

[–]freak-000 -5 points-4 points-3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]SchalaZeal01 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]LeonDeCool[🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]TimothyGonzalez 13 points14 points15 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]LeonDeCool[🍰] 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I think it's primarily a hatred of men but with the added belief that women are too weak and impotent to cause real harm. I think modern feminists would spin it to say that women are just better than men and too holy to hurt anyone, even if they could, but I don't think the origin of the idea is purely hatred of men.

I think the belief that women are too weak to hurt anyone is part of why we also have the myth that women can't rape and that they are always at the whims of men in their lives--it doesn't matter if a woman actually assaults someone physically or sexually because it can't be THAT serious, the perpetrator was a woman, so how could she do any kind of damage even if she wanted to? That kind of thing, even if we believe the victim, there's still a sense that women can't really do damage, not because they're inherently good and pure, but also because they're seen as just being too soft and weak to be violent, so they get off the hook.

[–]SchalaZeal01 7 points8 points9 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]LeonDeCool[🍰] 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ProfessorChuckFinley 9 points10 points11 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+]freak-000 -8 points-7 points-6 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ProfessorChuckFinley 9 points10 points11 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Idk man I kinda like being able to vote lol.

What does this have to do with what I said? I didnt say that women werent ever oppressed. I said that women were treated as more than just sex objects. People love exaggerating about how women were seen as nothing more than sex objects.

Men also had their gender roles. Expecting to provide, to sacrifice himself if there was danger, to go off to war and die. Is that misandry? Or is it a 1 way street where gender roles were misogyny, but not misandry?

And lastly, how does this support your claim that the women are wonderful effect is a result of misogyny? I gave a brief argument about female in group bias vs maled mixed (some males also have in group bias, but some have an out of group bias) and you ignored it.

What is so ridiculous about the idea that humans, for evolutionary reasons, have a bias where they see women more positively in many ways? The internet is full of articles, forums, etc were people trash men. But there are very few articles and forums where people trash women. Its socially acceptable to criticize men as a whole, not women.

This isnt misogyny, its humanity's evolutionary programming to value women more than men.

[–]_scheme 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I didnt say that women werent ever oppressed. I said that women were treated as more than just sex objects. People love exaggerating about how women were seen as nothing more than sex objects.

...

What is so ridiculous about the idea that humans, for evolutionary reasons, have a bias where they see women more positively in many ways? ... This isnt misogyny, its humanity's evolutionary programming to value women more than men.

Thank you. I'm so tired of hearing this argument, that women were basically sex dolls, not valued for anything else, without even an attempt to give evidence. Even just anecdotal evidence, please just point at something. It's a rote declaration that people take for granted and no one is prepared to substantiate. I'd be more interested in engaging with it if someone would give me something, but now I take it as a signal that the conversation just became a religious debate.

Also, per your last sentence, I think this is yet another reason why denying biological influence on social psychology is critical to feminism, as well as implying that social systems are designed rather than being emergent. It means that apparent (or imagined) inequity can be weaponized, by turning it into a moral albatross you can just hang around the neck of half the population. To whatever extent women generally "lacked agency", I think they have uniquely wielded this power over men without scrutiny.

[–]Men-Are-Human 18 points19 points20 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points15 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]IntactBroadSword 11 points12 points13 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheTinMenBlogvalued LWMA contributor[S] 11 points12 points13 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Tmomp 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]WorldController 9 points10 points11 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]freak-000 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Vandechoz 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ciderglove 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheTinMenBlogvalued LWMA contributor[S] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ciderglove 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link