Have we excluded women in research?

TEL-CFC_boi · 2021-12-01T15:41:27+00:00

It's good that the WHO seem to be aware of the issue. Hopefully they can do more to encourage research on men's issues.

Somehow, I doubt the UN will give the tiniest shit about it

griii2 · 2021-12-01T16:43:38+00:00

Thank you for this. I once argued a feminist saying that western medicine is misogynist because for the past thousand years all research was done only on men. Of course such argument is total bs, but it is great to have data.

TheTinMenBlog · 2021-12-01T15:11:21+00:00

I often am told to ‘do my homework’ on so many of the issues I write about, one of the most frequent is how women were excluded from medical research historically, and how this impacts our understanding of women’s health today.

Such a thing is always accepted on face value as fact, followed my much handwringing and virtue signalling by all those involved.

More so, I often see women suppression within medical research, brought up as a means of justifying the endemic of failing men’s health of today. Used to wipe away the afflictions of modern men and mens health, who continue to live shorter lives in all countries on earth, and are more burdened by illness during life.

Men’s health, an issue that according to The World Health Organisation receives ‘little national, regional or global acknowledgement or attention from health policy-makers or health-care providers.

’‘Well women were excluded from research for hundreds of years, so this is equity in action!’ I too often hear.

Spoken within a strange strategy of pendulum politics, where apparently to undo the historical discrimination of one sex, we must now discriminate against the other today. The solution to equality must surely be inequality, of a different kind.But is it true, were women excluded from medical research – and if so, when did it happen and is it the same today?StudyDid Medical Research Routinely Exclude Women?

Study: An Examination of the Evidence -

Medical Spending 2018, United States

Bias against men’s issues within the United Nations and the World Health Organization: A content analysis

dontpet · 2021-12-01T18:32:59+00:00

Remarkable. I'm stunned by the gender difference in the data at the top. Something seems strange about it too me though.

My wife used to work in a medical research group and it was almost wholly men they did tests on. She wasnt sure why that was but speculated that it was hard to get women to volunteer for the role as it involved possible risk. Usually they were testing medications.

And I've seen any number of discussions about how it is less common to include women in drug trials. Are you saying that the data doesn't support that?

PS Love your work.

hehimCA · 2021-12-01T16:44:05+00:00

Fantastic research!

djblackprince · 2021-12-01T16:59:22+00:00

As always, it seems most Feminist talking points are smoke and mirrors. Sad state of affairs.

Miffly · 2021-12-01T16:51:36+00:00

Very interesting numbers here. It's often presented as 'undeniable fact' that medicine and medical research is 'misogynist', with no real evidence behind such a statement.

lightning_palm · 2021-12-01T20:35:39+00:00

You really are setting a new standard with your posts.

agenderbannana · 2021-12-01T19:19:28+00:00

I’d love to have the sources for all this data

AdamChap · 2021-12-01T22:20:01+00:00

You got a website? This should be a non-profit thing. Let us send you some cash for this hard work you do. If you aren't taking money for this I think it's about time to think about starting a non-profit. Would be nice to see you take some government money too...

On another could you provide us with these slideshows as individual image files, all packaged in a .zip we could download off say Google Drive? If you can do that for me, I can much more easily download the slideshow and upload it into my Facebook timeline to share it, for example.

matrixislife · 2021-12-01T18:34:46+00:00

Excellent work, as always.

Schmladdn · 2021-12-02T11:09:52+00:00

So what you are saying is that more womxn partake in clinical trials compared to men and have the burden of testing new Meditation. And all that because fragile masculinity.

This shows again that Sexism and Patriarchy is alive and well!

You all know for a fact that this is something a feminist "news outlet" would write.

Top_Vanilla7249 · 2021-12-02T14:55:39+00:00

Sorry - two points. Firstly, I think the what is meant by "women have been excluded from medical research" is that medical issues relating directly to women (and not just men and women, or just men) have been historically exclude - not that there have never been any women involved in any medical research?

Secondly, you seem to have used data from the Office for Women's Research (which, as stated in the document you cited, has been specifically created and given money to look into research related to women) to highlight that the Office for Women's Research is not spending enough of their budget on men; and yet at the same time is ALSO spending some of their budget on men...? Seems kind of nice of them to do that with their money, really.

Thirdly (I know I said two point, but I now have a third), does the fact that there had to be a specific office for research on women and they they need a specific budget to do this not highlight that by default literally all other medical research (and funding) is therefore being put into medical research on men?

Just some things to think about. The bit at the end about the content analysis of the UN and WHO is interesting though - I will give you that.

SolarEngine89 · 2021-12-02T07:41:16+00:00

They do exclude. Even testing on lab mice people tend to pick males, unless it is something pregnancy related. And get relevant results. For males.

Adopting same approach on humans leads to things like Talidomide scandal.

InitiatePenguin · 2021-12-02T06:31:45+00:00

For some specific examples on how women are excluded in research (that's your title, although the presentation is on medical research) I would recommend Invisible Women: Exposing Data Bias in a World Designed for Men by feminist author Caroline Criado-Perez

One major point is car crash testing. When introduced they were using a male model. In 2011 was the first year a female model was used. Many tests still don't use them, and some that do, only test with the female in the passenger seat.

I'm not surprised at disparities in funding, in focus on headlines, or in gender participation in studies. But the Reference Man did exist, and influences research wherever its used. Often female bodies are treated as a deviation from a standard, or too difficult to understand or properly develop for.

This in no way negates men's outcomes needing dire attention. Or the advances in participation and inclusive medical research. But I don't see how work like the book recommended above, by a feminist, can't identify issues with the system and coexist with everything else brought up here.

LobYonder · 2021-12-02T23:14:39+00:00

Thanks for that information. Can you provide this as a single document? It would be easier to share with others.

Ausiwandilaz · 2021-12-06T11:34:27+00:00

I might be wrong but the Emma Watson speech was also attacked by feminist, saying "why thank men?" and also she pronounced "hatred of men, needs to stop" I think she got death threats for that. She's silent now, thanks to feminist. On another note Laci Greene was also betrayed by the cult, and made amends with her critics. She has been silenced too, but loving the new friends.

As a liberal leaning middle of the highway, I appreciate the strong women that help this movement, and you should too promote them too.

IMO as a LWMA we should learn from history and make it better, not get bottled about the past.

griii2 · 2021-12-08T16:13:57+00:00

These resources were super useful in my latest discussion! I would like to share what I learned.

My discussion opponent used the following study to prove the research of women diseases is underfunded: Gender Disparity in the Funding of Diseases by the U.S. National Institutes of Health. The conclusion of the study is that:

NIH applies a disproportionate share of its resources to diseases that affect primarily men, at the expense of those that affect primarily women.

But I believe this is a prime example of how to lie with statistics. While the disease burden is measured by the Disability Adjusted Life Year (which IMHO makes perfect sense) the gender impact is measured only if a disease is clearly gender-dominated (over 60% of afflicted being of one gender). Quoting from the study: "Remaining diseases are considered gender-neutral. This characterization is based strictly on prevalence and does not consider whether a disease more adversely affects a particular gender."

As a result, diseases like the Coronary artery disease, which is one of the top leading cause in death of middle-aged men, but also affects women with milder symptoms and later in life, are simply not included in the study.

But the resource also mention another very interesting study: Disparities in the allocation of research funding to gynecologic cancers by Funding to Lethality scores:

Ovarian, cervical, and uterine cancers ranked 10th (score 0.097, SD 0.008), 12th (0.087, SD 0.009), and 14th (0.057, SD 0.006) for average Funding to Lethality scores. The highest average score was for prostate cancer (score 1.182, SD 0.364).

This kind of disparity - benefiting men but disbenefiting women - is not right and as men we should be aware of it.

Title	Have we excluded women in research?
Author	TheTinMenBlog
Upvotes	263
Comments	34
Date	December 1, 2021 3:11 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/r6gx94/have_we_excluded_women_in_research/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/have-we-excluded-women-in-research.1089318 https://theredarchive.com/post/1089318

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