How do you feel about the phrase 'internalized misandry'?

Skirt_Douglas · 2022-04-03T15:50:20+00:00

I think sometimes it’s an accurate description and sometimes it doesn’t really match up.

If you are trying to use it as a blanket for describing all outdated or harmful beliefs about masculinity, it’s going to be hit and miss, because self-loathing is often not the root cause of such things.

It not a useless phrase, I just think it should be used sparingly, and not as a catch-all phrase in the same way that internalized misogyny is used. Androphobia is a word I think we should also use more often because I think a lot of anti male bias stems from a fear of men rather than an outright hatred or dislike or them.

lightning_palm · 2022-04-03T18:08:33+00:00

Extremely fitting term.

Men often do not see where they are disadvantaged, or they justify it away as 'natural', or 'men are naturally more violent', 'but men start the wars so they are the ones who have to get drafted', 'but it is men who rape other men' (not even true), 'women get children so men are the expendable ones', 'men are just better at killing themselves haha', 'men die earlier because they live unhealthily', 'men die younger because that's natural, just look at the animal kingdom', 'men get killed more on the street because they mutually beat each other up', 'men should just man up', etc.

I like 'internalized misandry' because unlike 'toxic masculinity', it doesn't cast men into the perpetrator role. It acknowledges that men are victims of societal expectations, etc.

maxcorrice · 2022-04-03T20:13:24+00:00

When I hear internalized misandry I think of the men who come out of r/menslib hating themselves because they are a man, the ones who have had anti male propaganda get to them at their soul and sink in so they hate themselves

iainmf · 2022-04-04T01:24:17+00:00

I think our whole understanding of gender, masculinity, and misandry is based on flawed processes. There is too much feminist politics involved.

I'm not sure adopting terms from feminists is a good idea. It legitimizes the flawed framework they use for understanding gender etc.

There are terms like 'out-group-bias', to describe men favouring women over men, or 'male disposability', to describe disregard for men's lives.

azazelcrowley · 2022-04-03T16:02:54+00:00

I think it's a term that may have some use if describing something like "I feel shit about not being manly enough even though I know logically that's silly. I try not to treat other men differently because of it.".

That is a fully internal struggle, or at the very least we can concede this intention on the person's part even if it bleeds out on occasion.

This is also true of women who may have internalised misandry.

I object to calling it internalised misandry when a man is being misandrist outwardly simply because he's a man. I do not think this is useful and I think it encourages double standards to excuse away sexists of a particular sex like feminists often do.

"I sometimes have confidence issues around men and feel inferior to them." Is internalised misogyny.

"I want women to be broodmares" is just plain misogyny. Its called internalised because of the psychotic way feminists view the issue of social evil and think it all has roots in men. The notion the woman could be the source of this attitude is one that undermines their manichaean worldview where all evil is due to patriarchy and a result of male power. So they call it internalised misogyny to try and remove moral blame from the woman.

Konato-san · 2022-04-03T14:43:26+00:00

I don't really know the answers to most of those questions; this is my first time hearing about the term. Though, my kneejerk reaction was that it's a pretty yikes and mildly offensive term, just like 'internalized misogyny'. Feel free to educate me though.

Logical-Tension · 2022-04-03T20:33:36+00:00

That’s definitely a thing, and goes hand in hand with internalized androphobia.

BloomingBrains · 2022-04-04T02:20:22+00:00

It definitely exists. I don't really know what else to call it when conservatives talk about how men are beasts and women are perfect angels, for example.

beeen_there · 2022-04-03T19:34:44+00:00

Of course it exists - western society practically demands it.

Replace it with "disposable men"

More direct, more universal, easier to comprehend, doesn't divert facts into some over-intellectualised argument that diminishes the point.

Basketballjuice · 2022-04-03T19:45:55+00:00

I think if it exists I'd define it as being a "feminist" who believes that in order to help women you have to hurt men

International_Crew89 · 2022-04-07T01:19:44+00:00

I think it's an apt term, especially in replacing "toxic masculinity", because it could apply to either gender and does not immediately conjure up images of villainous men trying to just oppress each other and women.

That being said, I would much rather our community focus on promoting scientific research into the biological, gendered impacts on behaviour (esp sexual) than the subjective social terminology we choose to describe the after-effects of the former.

Mammoth_Salt_4509 · 2022-04-03T15:20:31+00:00

I don't find it a very useful term tbh. I think men issues are very deeply rooted in our societal structures and even in some "bugs" of human cognition. The term misandry simply means "not liking men"...which I guess can be useful to call out specific bad behaviours. But seems superficial when used as an explaination. I think the same for "misoginy".

Cunari · 2022-04-04T03:45:08+00:00

No it's externalized misandry. Heterosexual men hate other men unless they have some utility, they don't hate themselves.

Darkwolf90 · 2022-04-08T12:16:25+00:00

Bias is inherent to our conscious experience of reality, it's how we interpret cause and effect from similar objects, ei you don't grab a knife by the blade because you have an idea of what a "sharp" object will do to your palm, the main issue is willful ignorance combined with unfounded irrational socially constructed bias.

Motanul_Negru · 2022-04-09T11:10:12+00:00

I believe I have a mild case. It does offend me, and I'd say it's the opposite of toxic masculinity, which I'm also not a fan of, along with anything else toxic (except sugar).

Title	How do you feel about the phrase 'internalized misandry'?
Author	janearcade
Upvotes	31
Comments	28
Date	April 3, 2022 2:38 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/tvaphu/how_do_you_feel_about_the_phrase_internalized/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/how-do-you-feel-about-the-phrase-internalized.1108828 https://theredarchive.com/post/1108828

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