Have Women really had it worse in history than Men like most people say?

lumpynose · 2022-06-24T00:24:05+00:00

My guess is that what they mean is that they were dependent on men, financially as well as in other ways. They were also relatively powerless and couldn't make a lot of decisions affecting their lives. Or, for example, it wasn't so long ago that when a man and a woman married that all of her property immediately became his.

Of course, they only see what they consider the negatives and, as usual, are incapable of analyzing and seeing any benefits they had.

gimmiepickles2eat · 2022-06-24T00:27:33+00:00

It depends on what you're comparing. I don't really like the idea of just a blanket, "who had it worse."

The world is a traumatic place. Whether it's war, economic scarcity, or natural disasters. Women used to be punished or killed if they spoke their mind. Men used to get killed or tortured in battle and conflict. Mother nature doesn't discriminate haha.

What made you ask your question? What do you think?

63daddy · 2022-06-24T00:45:22+00:00

After winning our independence in the U.S. about 6% of the population could vote and this included some women. More men than women could vote, but it’s not the all vs nothing scenario feminists falsely claim it was. The vast majority of men and vast majority of women couldn’t vote. They were in the same position.

Feminists claim wives were legally the property of their husbands. This is just plain false. Feminists claim women couldn’t ever run a business, this is also patently false. In fact in some seaside towns most businesses were run by women because most men went off whaling.

Feminists of course also ignore the many advantages afforded to women. Women in the U.S. have never been drafted to go fight and die in wars as men have. For much of our history there was a practice of women and children first. Women have had a greater option to opt out of workforce and stay home. I wish I had this option.

Imaginary-Luck-8671 · 2022-06-24T00:14:22+00:00

When women compare how they were doing in the past, they compare it to the kings of the time, and gosh darn it, turns out they don't do so great.

If you compare it to the average man by numbers, and not by whats left by survivor ship bias, there probably isn't a time in history where woman have had it worse than men.

maxlvb · 2022-06-24T00:52:21+00:00

The Woke hive mind as predicted by George Orwell in the novel 1984: Every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street and building has been renamed, every date has been altered...History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which they're always right.

When a non existant enemy has no face, feminism needs to invent one.

Ferbuggity · 2022-06-24T01:38:26+00:00

[permanently deleted]

White_Immigrant · 2022-06-24T05:40:42+00:00

I mean...define worse, really. History was unkind, to everyone. Everyone was forced into slavery (black, white, brown, yellow, male, female, adults and children) everyone was killed when wars kicked off, everyone was killed during pandemics and natural disasters.

The current narrative would have us believe that men had a lovely time, and women were horribly oppressed, but a cursory glance through the history of literally anywhere will show that everyone suffered, just in different ways.

optisadvantage · 2022-06-24T02:48:34+00:00

i don’t think it’s a competition tbh

everyone who wasn’t rich had it fucking terrible back then, so comparisons aren’t really worth making

would you rather have a shit sandwich or a shit taco?

papabherd · 2022-06-24T10:20:50+00:00

There are drawbacks for both genders. The extent and contrast of which can be debated. The problem today is that there is no debate to be had. The ideology that women are the oppressed class even today is the status quo and any attempt to say otherwise is met with derision and mockery. I understand that it is a fascinating topic to be discussed but it is largely irrelevant to improving current conditions.

Brandwein · 2022-06-24T14:20:59+00:00

It is highly subjective due to framing what criteria you include and what you are blind too. I don't think anyone can even answer this issue conclusively.

And i don't think it matters much when we should focus on true 'balanced' equality today, not some misguided sense of making past wrongs into rights, even stating "now it is our turn" is toxic as heck.

"Oh easy for you to say, you just don't want to give up your privilege, mister oppressor"

TetraThiaFulvalene · 2022-06-24T07:38:26+00:00

1% of men had it pretty decent and everyone else had a horrible time. Until the industrial revolution everything sucked for everyone all the time.

TheWritingParadox · 2022-06-24T13:40:18+00:00

From what I can tell, men and women were granted different things. Men, yes, had overt (keep that in mind, OVERT) power, in the forms of political, economic, military, and religious positions. However, they also had the responsibility of those positions. Women had the opposite side of the coin. They didn't have the overt power of emperors and kings often (though there were many who did and many more who had covert power), but in exchange they received security. They were protected and their lives were more valued. Not terribly surprising when, by simple math, if catastrophe happens, one man can impregnate twelve women, theoretically at least.

To me, I think the "oppression" and "discrimination" were the result of centuries upon centuries of men wanting to protect women that, over time, went from "we need to protect women from the harsh world" to "women can't handle the harsh world". That's unfair, sure, but so is placing all the burden of responsibility (except for perhaps the home and a few positions of power) on one sex.

So, all in all, no, I wouldn't say women had it worse, they just had different positions in the world with different expectations and rules. A thousand years ago, I think people understood that, if not consciously, then as a sort of human or societal subconscious, because, back then, everyone was really just trying to survive. Nowadays, where security is better than ever in human history (despite what you hear), people, and I think women in general, take it for granted and thus feel entitled to the fruits of power. However, the big problem with that is that many of them (and to be fair this happens with men too), don't seem willing to take up the RESPONSIBILITY of power.

bilgediver · 2022-06-24T14:19:00+00:00

People have a VERY "Current Time" viewish of the world.

People forget just how brutal and harsh life was for most people in the vast majority of history, and classist issues aside, rich people were only slightly better off but still had other issues.

Men were the ones who were expected to gather together to protect "society" whatever the at societal group is, while women were the ones expected to gather together to bear and raise the children. Women generally had domestic duties and men had the outside duties.

That doesn't mean one group had it worse or better, it was just different duties.

Men, historically, were the disposable ones genetically. In essence passing on your genes was not a gaurantee for a man, were expected to defend the tribe/community from outside threats, while with women it was a certainty, but at the same time women had the difficulty of childbirth and vulnerability of child rearing.

There is this fallacy of "power" as if all men held some sort of power over women, when for the most part nobody had power, historically. Power is basically just control over a limited resource. And the ability to bear children is an absolute resource.

In War, the men died but the women lived because their wombs were a very valuable resource. When Boko Haram captured those young girls did they have it worse than the boys who were systematically slaughtered?

MarsRisen · 2022-06-24T23:16:16+00:00

Mythandros · 2022-06-24T05:05:20+00:00

No, they haven't. This modern day victim culture tends to like exaggeration. It works in their favour to brainwash useful idiots.

TitanicPat · 2022-06-24T06:52:46+00:00

The demands of the most entitled have shifted, over the centuries from superior safety to superior societal standing.

Feminists look back at a world where they were successfully kept safe (at men's expense) and see those times don't meet their contemporary standards. Therfore "look how downtrodden and oppressed we've always been."

As always, with feminism, women are separated from their context with men, freedom from its context of responsibility.

heckin__chonker · 2022-06-24T02:57:57+00:00

Men had it pretty bad too. You were basically nothing more than a wageslave under capitalism and cannon fodder for wars

Miclash013 · 2022-06-24T08:36:17+00:00

History has not been kind to the human race, even including sex job differences. Women had little to no independence while living a relatively cushy lifestyle for most of history, while men were conscripted and had to participate in the economy in exchange for their autonomy.

Anyone would be insane to choose to be a man back then, especially when most jobs killed people daily. But in the modern era, not many of us are used to having no freedom.

WeEatBabies · 2022-06-24T06:37:03+00:00

No, there isn't one second in history, in any country that I wouldn't choose to be born a woman over a man.

Reasons :

War.
Even in middle eastern countries, at a period of time, when girls are freaking sold into marriage, the guy gets no say either about who he is marrying, his family does. And he has to provide for the girl for the rest his life while she just freaking chills! Worst, if he dies, his family now has to provide for the girl!

ignatztempotypo · 2022-06-24T02:31:40+00:00

They have to blame someone. Men put up with it. Done.

Frequentget3012 · 2022-06-24T02:57:09+00:00

There is a decent argument that they did and there are good arguments that they didn't. But that's not relevant. Historical disadvantages do manifest in the present with respect to some minority racial groups (i.e., even though black people have equal rights they are (on average) less advantaged than white people because thier families are less likely to be economically succesful for historical reasons) but historical disadvantages do not manifest in the present between the genders by the nature of the requirement of a man and woman to produce offspring.

In other words, maybe, maybe not, but it doesn't matter. What matters is that men have it harder in the present. And that's all that matters.

nikogetsit · 2022-06-24T02:42:55+00:00

When war breaks out, it depends, if the war is home then yes they are way worse off, if war is elsewhere, no the men are sent away to die.

As far as civil life goes, it depends on the era, there have been female rulers like Cleopatra, she did well. But if it's the 1700s, they believed it was unnatural for women to have an orgasm and sent them to an orgasm doctor where he would...help them get their fix so their husbands wouldn't have to put up with their needs. Females have stood at various heights throughout history from dictators to basically house pets.

mikesteane · 2022-06-24T01:15:53+00:00

I would argue it was. In most states you could legally beat your wife without reprecussion (some states even specify the max allowed thickness of the leather belt). You used to be able to violently rape your wife, and that was allowed. It used to be that only men could initiate divorces, that women couldn't have their own bank accounts, that their property automatically becomes their husbands.

Men undoubtedly have and do more dangerous jobs, and suffer more for it. But women until recently (in the grand scheme of history, 1960's ish) were literally property. No rational human being can argue that you'd be better off as a woman than as a man in the olden days.

Even if you bring up the example of low class men (serfs, peasants etc) being treated as badly, remember that they still had a wife who was also treated that badly and also had no legal protections from their serf husband coming home and beating the shit out of her because the stew had too much pepper.

Basketballjuice · 2022-06-24T04:25:48+00:00

Yes.

In most places.

MaxTheCatigator · 2022-06-24T03:00:22+00:00

The people who "remember" past lives under hypnosis are all nobility of some sort or other, the women at least a lady.

Therefore it's an unsubstantiated myth that people back then were anything less than that. Everybody had it good and lived in a land of milk and honey with fried piegeons flying directly into their mouth.

As for working in a mine: Have them read Orwell's Road to Wigan Pier. Solshenizin's Archipelo Gulag would be a useful addition.

Outrageous_Writer_99 · 2022-06-24T17:35:34+00:00

Depends on what you think Quality of Life is.

Do you want freedom? Don't be a historic woman Do you want to avoid risking life and limb over weird shit? Don't be a man

Alarming_Draw · 2022-06-24T20:06:41+00:00

Dear OP,

NO

Dont ask stupid feminist questions that a five year old or Google can answer unless you WANT to be considered a lurking femtroll...

HikuroMishiro · 2022-06-25T04:41:31+00:00

Broadly speaking I'd say no, they haven't had it worse. Which gender had it worse is one, very subjective to different situations, and two has varied tremendously in different parts of the world in different times in history. It would be a very ambitious project to scour every civilization throughout every century tallying up points for worse or better in different categories, but I think anyone with a good understanding of history pretty readily concludes that men and women have probably had to endure a similar degree of roughness.

As a few others have commented, even with regards to voting, despite white men being the primary voters until 70 years ago, some women and blacks could vote as far back as the establishment of the country. As you say most of history wasn't fun for either gender, but at the same time we also have a tendency to look at history with a skewed modern lens and often focus on negatives.

We like to think of the present as the best time in history to live afterall we have modern medicine, technological entertainment, and thank god air conditioning, but recently came across a book that posits from an objective point that this isn't really the case (i think it uses average happiness levels but I haven't read it and don't remember the name offhand, but I'll try to remember to look more into it). This doesn't really have anything to do with whether men or women had it worse in history, but it made me think of it for those that might be interested in reading on such a topic.

No_Evidence683 · 2022-06-25T15:13:42+00:00

in the 1800s it sucked to be a woman bc sexism was rampant. but as the 1900s progressed both genders were evened out socially. women still had the under hand in some aspects but look at videogames such as LA Noir- women are seen working and being independent in the late 40s

2022-06-27T11:58:24+00:00

I'd say so, yes. But it's not really relevant, because the people who moan about these things weren't alive back then, and live a life of privilege. My grandma had a terrible childhood (much better today) but she's one of the strongest people I've known.

cussy-munchers · 2022-06-28T19:46:49+00:00

How is this even a question

Title	Have Women really had it worse in history than Men like most people say?
Author	earthtime27
Upvotes	127
Comments	81
Date	June 24, 2022 12:08 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/vjazem/have_women_really_had_it_worse_in_history_than/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/have-women-really-had-it-worse-in-history-than-men.1120267 https://theredarchive.com/post/1120267

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