Genuinely curious as to why a lot of y’all think this about women

63daddy · 2022-06-23T18:58:35+00:00

I like women, but I acknowledge we live in a gynocentric society, and that impacts how I choose to interact with women. I have no desire to marry for example.

Feminism is very anti-male, but feminism and women are not the same thing. I think it’s easy to misinterpret a reaction to gynocentrism, or a reaction to feminism by men as being a reaction against women, when that’s not the case.

2022-06-23T18:46:21+00:00

The things I have to read in a group of Men Rights....

Well... better than being blind.

2022-06-23T19:08:22+00:00

1) I think a lot of men have stopped to compliment women because of a fear to be accussed of sexual harrasment. So I do not believe women receive a massive amount of compliments.

2) I do think women have it easier in some aspects of society, whereas men face difficulties in other aspects. Some issues are faced by both groups (e.g. domestic violence). The issue nowadays is that we only talk about female issues and even make things that men face more or at equal rates a 'woman' thing.

odysseytree · 2022-06-23T18:55:09+00:00

What I often see is men who have the idea in their heads that all women are showered with compliments and unconditional love on a regular basis

You are confusing mens rights with relationship problems. Maybe some men believe that. But this is not what mens rights is making as an issue.

I am against feminism because it holds structural power to influence political and institutional policies that give women more privileges and take away the rights of men as a compromise and it hits boys the hardest way.

that bringing down the patriarchy would help everyone a lot more than they think.

This is a delusional imagination of feminism. When I ask them what would we have once you bring down the patriarchy, they only acknowledge the equality in air conditioned buildings which are just 10% of the jobs.

EmirikolWoker · 2022-06-23T19:00:09+00:00

The foundational principles of all flavours of feminism (class warfare between men and women with men winning, shorthanded as "Patriarchy") are inherrently anti-male when you examine what needs to be true for it to accurately describe reality. Feminists can claim that it's "just about equality", but it's equality based on bigotted assumptions, presuming psychopathy on the part of men as a class.

Mens rights advocacy, and egalitarian values in general, are necessarily antifeminist.

SecondEldenLord · 2022-06-23T18:56:27+00:00

This idea comes from reality. Average girls get attention and validation on a regular basis from many buys but they are feeling lonely because they do not get it from the guys THEY WANT. I had seen so many women claiming they are alone and get no validation when in reality they do. Men are less picky than men, go ahead and look on the statistics on dating apps and be amazed by the results. On tinder alone women swipe left on average on 95% of men while men do it on 55% of women. That is quite a huge difference. Also, lots of tidner insights had been shared and these insights confirm the statistics.

You can cry wolf how many times you want, just because it doesn't happen to you doesn't make it untrue.

There-is-No-Beyond · 2022-06-23T19:39:51+00:00

You don't have to believe anything I say, but I'd like you (OP) or anyone else seeing this to think about it.

On "male privilege:"

https://youtu.be/_ucR-1NodAs

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/7edsl3/feminist_page_on_facebook_made_a_post_that_i/

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/8qtgwe/male_privilege/

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/9wetwv/international_mens_day_is_nov_19/

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/7edsl3/feminist_page_on_facebook_made_a_post_that_i/

https://i.imgur.com/7M8grnT.png

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/6l797y/male_privilege_summary/

https://i.imgur.com/760QRai.jpg

On feminism:

https://i.imgur.com/CY5USbk.png

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5729209/Hardline-feminist-Clementine-Ford-removed-speaker-suicide-charity-Lifeline-complaints.html

And lastly, if anyone says that Clementine Ford "isn't a real feminist," then Karen Straughan would like to respond:

So what you're saying is that you, a commenter using a username on an internet forum are the true feminist, and the feminists actually responsible for changing the laws, writing the academic theory, teaching the courses, influencing the public policies, and the massive, well-funded feminist organizations with thousands and thousands of members all of whom call themselves feminists... they are not "real feminists".

That's not just "no true Scotsman". That's delusional self deception.

Listen, if you want to call yourself a feminist, I don't care. I've been investigating feminism for more than 9 years now, and people like you used to piss me off, because to my mind all you were doing was providing cover and ballast for the powerful political and academic feminists you claim are just jerks. And believe me, they ARE jerks. If you knew half of what I know about the things they've done under the banner of feminism, maybe you'd stop calling yourself one.

But I want you to know. You don't matter. You're not the director of the Feminist Majority Foundation and editor of Ms. Magazine, Katherine Spillar, who said of domestic violence: "Well, that's just a clean-up word for wife-beating," and went on to add that regarding male victims of dating violence, "we know it's not girls beating up boys, it's boys beating up girls."

You're not Jan Reimer, former mayor of Edmonton and long-time head of Alberta's Network of Women's Shelters, who just a few years ago refused to appear on a TV program discussing male victims of domestic violence, because for her to even show up and discuss it would lend legitimacy to the idea that they exist.

You're not Mary P Koss, who describes male victims of female rapists in her academic papers as being not rape victims because they were "ambivalent about their sexual desires" (if you don't know what that means, it's that they actually wanted it), and then went on to define them out of the definition of rape in the CDC's research because it's inappropriate to consider what happened to them rape.

You're not the National Organization for Women, and its associated legal foundations, who lobbied to replace the gender neutral federal Family Violence Prevention and Services Act of 1984 with the obscenely gendered Violence Against Women Act of 1994. The passing of that law cut male victims out of support services and legal assistance in more than 60 passages, just because they were male.

You're not the Florida chapter of the NOW, who successfully lobbied to have Governor Rick Scott veto not one, but two alimony reform bills in the last ten years, bills that had passed both houses with overwhelming bipartisan support, and were supported by more than 70% of the electorate.

You're not the feminist group in Maryland who convinced every female member of the House on both sides of the aisle to walk off the floor when a shared parenting bill came up for a vote, meaning the quorum could not be met and the bill died then and there.

You're not the feminists in Canada agitating to remove sexual assault from the normal criminal courts, into quasi-criminal courts of equity where the burden of proof would be lowered, the defendant could be compelled to testify, discovery would go both ways, and defendants would not be entitled to a public defender.

You're not Professor Elizabeth Sheehy, who wrote a book advocating that women not only have the right to murder their husbands without fear of prosecution if they make a claim of abuse, but that they have the moral responsibility to murder their husbands.

You're not the feminist legal scholars and advocates who successfully changed rape laws such that a woman's history of making multiple false allegations of rape can be excluded from evidence at trial because it's "part of her sexual history."

You're not the feminists who splattered the media with the false claim that putting your penis in a passed-out woman's mouth is "not a crime" in Oklahoma, because the prosecutor was incompetent and charged the defendant under an inappropriate statute (forcible sodomy) and the higher court refused to expand the definition of that statute beyond its intended scope when there was already a perfectly good one (sexual battery) already there. You're not the idiot feminists lying to the public and potentially putting women in Oklahoma at risk by telling potential offenders there's a "legal" way to rape them.

And you're none of the hundreds or thousands of feminist scholars, writers, thinkers, researchers, teachers and philosophers who constructed and propagate the body of bunkum theories upon which all of these atrocities are based.

You're the true feminist. Some random person on the internet.

Direct_Geologist_536 · 2022-06-23T19:21:42+00:00

Well, I don't really think the average women is showered with love and compliments. I just think on average, men have significantly less of that than women.

Fearless-File-3625 · 2022-06-23T20:07:47+00:00

I think men and women deserve equal rights, and that bringing down the patriarchy

This statement is an oxymoron. There is no patriarchy.

There-is-No-Beyond · 2022-06-23T20:08:31+00:00

You lost me at "patriarchy"

SCRIPtRaven · 2022-06-23T18:47:24+00:00

[permanently deleted]

DepressedDandylion · 2022-06-23T18:50:42+00:00

Well, being attractive has numerous benefits, and one of those is better luck in the dating game and more attention from the opposite sex. I'm saying this as someone who isn't particularly attractive. It definitely matters

ignatztempotypo · 2022-06-23T19:41:06+00:00

We'll start with... There ain't no patriarchy, and it's easily proved with actual facts!

badblue81 · 2022-06-23T20:47:38+00:00

I think men and women deserve equal rights, and that bringing down the patriarchy would help everyone a lot more than they think.

What would you consider to be the patriarchy?

Many self-claimed Feminist seem to consider the word to be synonymous with "men" in general rather then a ruling class of men or societal structure.

What I often see is men who have the idea in their heads that all women are showered with compliments and unconditional love on a regular basis, from my experiences at least this is so incredibly far from the truth.

As you are a Trans-Women I'm a bit surprised think that just because "some men have an idea" that that somehow implies that all men think the same? Amber Heard is getting "showered with compliments and unconditional love" from various sources right now so it's not like it doesn't happen.

A message which resonated with me from one of the various woman-focused subs is that a lot of guys only think of attractive women, the girls who look amazing and get a ton of guys asking them out,

That is not really only something men do. In my experience women also think a lot about hot attractive men.

and that the less (conventionally) attractive women are often overlooked

To be fair, less (conventionally) attractive men are also often overlooked unless they something else about them to make up for the short fall.

Nothing in your post is unique to Women solely.

DavidByron2 · 2022-06-23T19:54:28+00:00

I think men and women deserve equal rights

That would mean you're not a feminist (if it was actually true).

It's like saying "I'm a Nazi because I believe in racial equality."

No. No, that's not the reason.

a lot of guys only think of attractive women, the girls who look amazing and get a ton of guys asking them out

Statistically that's the majority of women, at least at a young age. You can look at the stats dating apps store for example. This is not true for men.

I really don’t know where this idea comes from

It's how human brains work. Stuff you see a lot is true. That's also why advertising and propaganda work. You see a lot of white swans? Swans are white. It's a good heuristic for mammals. It's hard for human brains to constantly keep in mind that there's a distribution of values. Stereotyping is a mental short cut with massive application.

IceCorrect · 2022-06-23T20:21:25+00:00

What patriarchy?

If we would live in this mysterious patriarchy in what feminists believe in, there would be no need for mens rights forums..

randomaviary · 2022-06-23T22:54:29+00:00

Ok bring down the patriarchy: All construction workers, engineers, oil refining, water treatment, waste management, manufacturing and military jobs need to be done by a majority of women now.

Tell me exactly how you plan to make that happen before you utter an empty complaint about “the patriarchy”

Inevitable_Brain9852 · 2022-06-23T22:40:02+00:00

Well firstly, feminism promotes women having all the say in abortion and that’s a sexist ideology. Justified as “her body her choice”. Which is used to justify the privilege women have of having all the say in abortions. Where I garunte if it was somehow split between two or just men they would want equality still. Because related to this subject and others self proclaimed feminists have shown “my body my choice” doesn’t apply to men.

Second, when women got the right to vote they never fought for the responsibility that comes with it. Being having to sign up for selective service when you turn 18. The consequences of not doing so is being fined ~$250,000 and being put in jail. In order for women to have to vote they can just exist and register when they turn 18. Men have to sign their life’s away under the threat of their life being destroyed before it had a chance to begin, even if a war big enough to cause a draft never occurs. Then they register to vote.

Third, if you look up “is genital mutilation illegal” you will get lots of results talking about how female genital mutilation is illegal, but not when it happens to male children. Just female children. When you do more research you find feminism is a large advocate for these types of laws. Laws that only protect female children and not male children. When circumcision typically has the same effects of female mutilation. They had every opportunity to make it illegal for all children and only made it illegal for it to happen to female children. Side note if you look up “is genital mutilation against male children illegal” you get results talking about how circumcision is legal in all fifty states, including with infants. Yet it has been shown in modern studies circumcision, just like female genital mutilation is done to make the part of the body look more appealing, and reduces feeling and pleasure to the area. Which is the major argument points Feminism makes. So they fact that they passed such a large law in the name of equality, without including males is a large problem.

Fourth feminists love to promote the concept of you don’t need a father/father figure to raise a child. When not only is that concept proven false. So many of these single feminist mothers are sitting on loads of child support from the father, and the amount he has to pay isn’t even always what’s required to take care of a child. It can be up to 50% of his paycheck when single. 60% when in a relationship. And most of the time courts will give that to the mother because the courts receive a portion of the child support. This only gets worse because courts are biased towards mothers in divorce because of the same notions spread by feminism.

Women have all this privilege and refuse to acknowledge because they receive so much privilege from it. And they call it oppression when men ask for equality. Because they are loosing their privilege.

That’s why we don’t like feminism.

tenchineuro · 2022-06-23T23:27:15+00:00

I’d call myself a feminist, I think men and women deserve equal rights,

This make no sense, feminism is opposed to equal rights, you are very confused.

In 1996 or so California had a voter proposition on the ballot, Prop 209. It shocked American feminism to the core and they immediately organized against it. If you're not familiar with Prop 209 it's diametrically opposite of everything feminism advocates for and supports, which is why feminism opposed it.

https://vigarchive.sos.ca.gov/1996/general/pamphlet/209text.htm
Proposition 209:
SEC. 31. (a) The state shall not discriminate against, or grant preferential treatment to, any individual or group on the basis of race, sex, color, ethnicity, or national origin in the operation of public employment, public education, or public contracting.

So if you are a feminist, you oppose equal rights because you want quotas, preferences and set-asides for women and Prop 209 would make that illegal.

and that bringing down the patriarchy would help everyone a lot more than they think.

You can't kill a boogeyman.

allmyghtt · 2022-06-24T00:37:41+00:00

Well first u have to ask here, because difference of opinions get banned in the others subs you sound like you subscribe to in fact many of those sub ban people just for having joined here ....

not a great start any sub that controls what information can be shared is equivalent to hittler burning books that disagreed with him..... control of thought is not a good position for a sub to take think on that.

Second. There's scholarships made that only woman can get There open gender discrimination of hiring for woman just to make a quota cause somehow people's gender determines how successful a job they are going to do

Social experiments have proven time after time we as a society are more likely to protect woman to coddle woman... Look at fat acceptance notice its always plus size woman its always big woman are beautifully too, curvy woman.

It was recently fathers day in America In Australia where I live i heard nothing about it our mothers and fathers day is different However America's mothers day im blasted with mother celebrations stuff.

Feminist created terms like mansplaining manspreading and maninteruption that's pretty fucking disgusting for a group that supposedly dosnt like sexism. You ever call someone a dick head or a dick You ever call someone a pussy or a cunt I wonder what the back lash of saying those two things, Both using a gender specific body part in a derogatory way see which one is more acceptable to say....

Finally all feminist subs iv been on say some pretty fucking disgusting shit about killing all men And aborting male babies. And more much more I guess fuck heads exist in both worlds and nether would be a fair jugment to make against the other.

Oh and patriarchy.. Really a patriarchy so male driven that for men to vote they had to sign there life away through war or fire duties and for woman they had to walk down the street with some signs.

A patriarchy so driven by men when 1 in 4 homeless people are woman it has tabloids and news articles say, we need to get woman off our streets.

A patriarchy so male driven we own 97% of work deaths

The patriarchy supposedly created by men coined by feminist that it's for men and then somehow we men created it to harm men and if only we worked with feminism to get rid of it we wouldn't be burdend by the thing that harms us that we created to give us advantages So are men the rulers of the world Or stupid ass holes

Or more likely is it that this so called patriarchy is just how society panned out and wasn't created for or against anyone for any particular evil reason

Woman told all their life you can have it all a mum and a carrier woman, men told all my life don't hurt woman.. .. protect woman.....you can't hit woman

Violence against woman Australia says no Never mind men die at much higher rates due to violence but sure we need to teach people to not hurt woman

We need to make our school boys stand on parade and say sorry for rape they didn't do to a bunch of girl they didn't rape. ...

SOCIETY PANDERS TO WOMAN

we live in a matriarchy.. Dosnt feel great when someone says that I'm guessing so stop saying we live in a patriarchy its disgusting

2022-06-23T19:19:15+00:00

There’s a difference between grassroots feminism and modern day extremist feminism. Burning down men just because they’re men with fake oppression is the current state we’re in society right now. If you ask any far left feminist they’ll go on a jabber jaw fest talking about the past which they didn’t fight for and how it’s applied today. Most modern extremist feminists are in their early 20s, if you were born in the early 2000s you have absolutely right to talk about women oppression as you have a lot more rights than the women before you and society has shifted in protecting you while the freedom to evade accountability and responsibility runs rampant.

JSutt771 · 2022-06-23T19:29:12+00:00

First off: Don't mind the folks here who are disregarding your efforts because this is a men's forum. There are two sides to every story and you can't get to the bottom of a problem without one side opening a dialogue with the other and you're never going to gain new perspective on a situation until you look at it from a different angle.

Now, your question. Attractive women get a ton of guys asking them out while unattractive (conventionally) women get overlooked... Um....well, YEA! That's kind of how it works. And I feel it important to point out, that door swings both ways! Guys like Jason Momoa, Chris Evans, Ryan Reynolds...they can have any woman on the planet they want, almost. I, on the other hand, do not work out 18 hours a day and I'm overweight. I haven't been hit on in a decade (I'm married, so I'm ok with that, but my point stands).

The message from your woman focused sub is 100% spot on, but misattributed. It has nothing to do with women being important, or useful, or skilled, or equal, or...anything at all other than attractive. It's the same for guys. It's always been that way. It will always be that way. It's no different than peacocks with big bright tails getting more mates than peacocks with small, faded, weak, erectile disfunctional tails.

Now, as for "all women being showered with compliments and unconditional love"...I call bullshit. No way. I'm not a fan of absolute statements to begin with, there's always an exception to the rule. Any man who tells you that is ignorant or kidding himself. I will, however, agree with a slightly amended statement of "men are societally expected to shower all women with compliments and unconditional love". Ironically, it's men who primarily perpetuate that standard. Look at any video on the net of some woman whooping the shit out of a guy with five other guys standing around recording, but the second the victim defends himself in any way all five guys jump him and turn him into a vegetable because "You don't hit women. Ever. For any reason. Period."

Interesting-Bug-6048 · 2022-06-23T20:45:43+00:00

Radical feminists: lower male gender to 20% of total population, give all of society's power to female gender. Becomes TERFs because they explicitly want to kill the male sex.

2 seconds later: creates a concept called "patriarchy" and the only way to solve it is to make women in charge and take power away from men.

You really need to open your eyes to feminist manipulation. You're embarrasing yourself.

LouisdeRouvroy · 2022-06-23T23:37:18+00:00

and that bringing down the patriarchy would help everyone a lot more than they think.

This is like saying praying to Jesus will bring world peace.

I don't mind you believing it, but don't pretend that I have to consider this as truth just because you're convinced of it.

dojoboy · 2022-06-24T01:12:37+00:00

Firstly, for there to be a patriarchy, there must be a matriarchy. Feminism does not recognize, or if so, admit the damage on men inflicted by the matriarchy.

Secondly, it sounds like you have kindred spirits among many men whose lives mirror the one you describe of yourself and other women. These men have no advantage in a supposed patriarchy.

We simply would like for women to wake up to this truth.

Frequentget3012 · 2022-06-24T03:15:18+00:00

If feminism didn't oppress men there wouldn't be a need for men's rights (in particular). So naturally, men's rights IS very much about fighting feminism, and feminism, is to an extent about women. Hence, women are an important subject in men's rights.

HikuroMishiro · 2022-06-24T03:53:00+00:00

I think a lot of other answers have gone into detail and cited information, so I'll try to keep my responses relatively brief. (I then proceeded to give a more detailed answer anyway that I decided to just delete and start over to be brief, only to ramble on slightly again lol). I will say if you think men and women deserve equal rights then you should separate yourself from feminism, and being brainwashed into thinking there is a patriarchy is but one reason why.

Your experience seems to be talking about the small amount of people that use reddit and the small amount of those people that frequent feminist forums. People that post here literally aren't allowed to post on such forums, so why you'd post the question to us is a bit odd. I'd say obviously women do receive more compliments (and certainly unconditional love) than men do, but if you think men have this idea the average women whistles about her day as everyone doffs their hats and heaps on the praise like the beginning of some Disney movie that's a bit silly.

Perception is also at play here. People can get 99 compliments and one insult, then wonder why no one likes them because they focus on the negative. Its impossible for us or anyone to know how often you and the ones you know do or do not get complimented since peoples (not just women) perceptions often don't really match reality, humans often aren't good at being objective. I happen to know a have a friend that would say something similar (that she doesn't get complimented often), even though she is quite pretty and I see her get complimented on a regular basis. I've also known pretty girls that admit they complimented every day. And while part of it is perception, part of it is how/where you spend your time. If you are less outgoing (or at least, don't see a lot of different people) and tend to ignore the compliments of friends and family, you're going to perceive a lot fewer compliments than people that go out to parties on the weekend and have a flirtatious personality. Many men are also lonely and sad, women have no monopoly on that market. One of the differences though is that women have a far less difficult time rectifying that situation.

I'm not sure I understand your question. Obviously the very attractive women do get asked out more, much like how very attractive men get more attention than less attractive men. I wouldn't say less attractive women are overlooked, and I most certainly wouldn't say men see them as unimportant. I'm not sure how much politics comes into play either. While I imagine someone that frequents a feminist sub probably does have different politics than me, a large number of people on this sub do as well. There may well be a number of people on here that have very similar politics to you, save that they think men and women should be treated equally.

Not wanting to get mad when people disagree with you is an excellent and mature take, I imagine answers have probably run the gamut on here, but I hope you found some kind of answer to what you were looking for.

Title	Genuinely curious as to why a lot of y’all think this about women
Author	_AnonymousMoose_
Upvotes	0
Comments	83
Date	June 23, 2022 6:42 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/vj3x7e/genuinely_curious_as_to_why_a_lot_of_yall_think/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/genuinely-curious-as-to-why-a-lot-of-yall-think.1120290 https://theredarchive.com/post/1120290

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