Gender Dynamics and the Factors behind the TFR Decline

Mrs_Drgree · 2022-07-24T13:28:10+00:00

Please wait at least 12 hours between posts

Marzipan-Happy · 2022-07-24T06:44:36+00:00

I think it has to do with waiting to have children for women, and the rate of inflation causing many to feel as though they simply can't afford a child.

2022-07-24T08:00:50+00:00

I think people overestimate the amount of planning that went into having such large families. Without reliable contraception the only reliable method for avoiding pregnancy was abstaining from sex. Clearly that wasn't happening.

Today we have an actual concept of "family planning" and greater incentive to do so (e.g., giving each child a decent quality of life) as opposed to having sex when the urge strikes and dealing with whatever "blessings" that come along the way. We also have stricter child labor laws and compulsory education, meaning that putting said children to work ASAP to get by is (thankfully) no longer an option.

Edit: Added education part

Creation_Soul · 2022-07-24T09:06:01+00:00

the other related question is how many of the children had in the past were not really wanted, but as a result of people not being able to control fertility?

It's not that people are having no sex, it's that the sex doesn't have the same risk of having children as before. It's one "mistake" evolution did: it made us want sex more than wanting children. And then human ingenuity found a solution (various forms of birth control) to somewhat separate the two (people can have sex with minimal fear of having children).

anon018274031 · 2022-07-24T10:27:04+00:00

You kinda covered it all.

For all of human history women haven’t been allowed to choose how many children they had. Now they can! And this seems to be how many people actually want with choice.

Also women now do have a choice about having a life. Being a mother really isn’t for everyone (despite the lies constantly pushed on women that it is). We are in this weird state where men still get away with doing very little childcare and having to make only small sacrifices for a child, whilst women still make almost all the sacrifices and often have their life changed beyond recognition. Why would women therefore want a child? Even a lot of my friends who thought they wanted a child because their partners convinced them they did (and promised they would be good dads) are now mostly on anti depressants and either single mothers or pretty much feel like one due to lack of help from the fathers. They got dumped with the kid and the fathers are all living like nothing has changed.

In the past women often had two choice, have a child or live in poverty without the support of a man. Now we have the same choices as men we realised we have been absolutely screwed over for the entire of human history. Getting stuck with loads of kids whilst men got to keep on living.

Glad-Discount-4761 · 2022-07-24T07:05:05+00:00

Pregnancy will ruin body.Some woman don't want that.

toasterchild · 2022-07-24T10:41:05+00:00

I'm going with lack of familial and societal pressure. Having more kids is more common in lower income areas and in groups who are religious. In those areas there is still societal pressure to have kids.

If you have a career and make decent money you've got options. You can have a great life without having to create life.

WaffleBurner96 · 2022-07-24T11:27:10+00:00

People are also less healthy. 1 in 3 women have PCOS. Men’s testosterone and sperm counts are declining. Sub-fertility can make it take longer to conceive. 75% of Americans are overweight or obese; obese women have riskier pregnancies, and it costs more to feed your families if you’re overfeeding them. Pregnancy overall is just miserable and hard on your body.

I also think that people are becoming more focused on the few kids that they do have. It’s difficult to care for so many and make sure they all get everything they need. That’s part of the reason why I’m only having one.

Perhaps there has been a rise in single mums, and fewer men are willing to date or marry single mums, so they’re less likely to find a man to make more children with? Idk

GlowingAsItDazzles · 2022-07-24T12:48:54+00:00

why do you have to come up with convoluted explanations. women never wanted a lifetime of pregnancy, you had almost no choice. why do you think the right to control ones reproduction is so important to womens liberty? revealed choice, as soon as women are free and able to control their fertilty they have fewer PREGNANCIES. the end. and so what

Valuable-Marzipan761 · 2022-07-24T06:13:26+00:00

[permanently deleted]

YtBlue · 2022-07-24T07:25:43+00:00

Women don't want equal. When we're actually equal they'll complain that men aren't up to par and it's our fault. Women at the end of the day decide pregnancy so it's all on them.

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Valuable-Marzipan761 · 2022-07-24T07:28:39+00:00

People like to put more time and effort into each individual child these days. Seventy years ago you could have twelve and they'd just spend their days playing out in the street, not people want to have one on one time with each, making more than two or three very difficult.

Not saying It's a good or bad thing I just think that's a big part of the reason based in the amount of people I know with only one child.

RealNiceLady · 2022-07-24T08:18:44+00:00

To maximize fertility, women need to marry young. The Dobbs Decision will also increase fertility.

2022-07-24T08:49:11+00:00

So how much of the drop in TFR is really because of women choosing to have less children?

A huge chunk. Because they're the bottleneck.

On the other hand, a drop in TFR is highly correlated with female education levels. But correlation is not causation: many other factors that could contribute to a decline in TFR are correlated with a rise in female education.

Edu is usually pursued through the most fertile years. Also the chick isn't as ugly as she'll get "post-wall" (or when getting close to the point of brick smash).

what are the true causes of the TFR decline

Female choices is the biggest chunk. The rest (causes, reasons,...) are trivial compared to the choices (not) made.

2022-07-24T12:37:13+00:00

Gender dynamics only play a small part in this issue.

Women entered the workforce which led to them not having the time to be a homemaker. The first 4-5 years of a child's life, or at least until they get into preschool/kindergarten they still need a large amount of attention. Couples usually either have to have one of them stay home to attend to the child, or have some other solution (nanny/daycare).

That's a huge time or financial commitment that most couples would not be able to bear.

Women are also pressured to take on a career and stay way from being a housewife, it's usually looked down upon to choose that over a career.

Part of the problem there is that due to the job market, inflation, and cost of living, it's very hard for men to even provide to the extent that a woman could be a housewife or at least stay home during the first few years of a child's life.

The problem is essentially the economy and cost of living not enabling some sort of option to care for the children to be possible.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2022-07-24T12:42:07+00:00

It’s expensive as fuck to raise kids. College is also stupidly expensive and getting more pricey every year. And outside activities both social and academic take a lot of time and money too. While there is more work to do it feels for not nearly the money to pay for all the things. And you add all that up and say “do it more than once. Like three or four times!” People are going to go “yeahhhh, no thanks”

And with all that the earth still hot 8 billion people and the population is still growing. So what’s the problem?

Title	Gender Dynamics and the Factors behind the TFR Decline
Author	WilliamWyattD
Upvotes	8
Comments	63
Date	July 24, 2022 6:03 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/w6omyq/gender_dynamics_and_the_factors_behind_the_tfr/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/gender-dynamics-and-the-factors-behind-the-tfr.1125047 https://theredarchive.com/post/1125047

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