Give me a ranking on JP, Matt Walsh and Ben Shapiro and your reasons for that

EnthusiasmNo6062 · 2022-10-26T18:47:13+00:00

Jp is insanely calculated, meticulous, pronounced and above all a beacon for all men. The other two aren't here to solve any problems, but to stir the pot. Listen, I'm not saying they don't have strong points, but we have to come to terms that people we live with have different views. Working together is the key to a good system. Not this popular gotcha mentality. It's like we need that dopamine so bad now that we can't just sit down together and work something out.

AwfulUsername123 · 2022-10-26T18:04:23+00:00

Ben Shapiro? Is he an MRA? He supports circumcision. Even aside from that, he's an idiot. He thinks global warming isn't real and even if it were it wouldn't be a big deal because people in coastal areas could simply sell their property and move. Incredible.

elebrin · 2022-10-26T17:45:06+00:00

I like what Peterson has to say about responsibility, and I greatly enjoyed his biblical series. They have been quite useful to understanding my own desires and needs, and have helped me better align my own life with my own desires and needs.

Arguments, especially debates, aren't about "defeating" or "winning." There is very little value in that. There is value in presenting a variety of ideas and pitting them against each other in a way where people are forced to think and make a decision.

I don't much like Ben Shapiro. I think he picks easy targets and makes aggressive-sounding talking points that are great sounding to college students. I don't always disagree with him, but I'm not a fan. Matt Walsh? I'm not sure who that is.

philosophybuff · 2022-10-26T18:02:52+00:00

I can answer the sub question where JP was defeated. It’s with Matt Dillahunty about God and religion. It’s fascinating to watch JP get absolutely crushed.

https://youtu.be/FmH7JUeVQb8

Cbd_7ohm · 2022-10-26T18:24:54+00:00

They're grifters. Also Matt Walsh and Michael Knowles want to ban porn. They never mention the drug war. They never mention circumcision. They make some good points, but it's obfuscated by their bullshit.

arrouk · 2022-10-26T17:41:50+00:00

Tbh Ben shapiro I find obnoxious.

Jp is brilliant. Such well formed explanations and tbh I have learned alot about myself and how I view the world from him.

Matt Walsh I'm not aware of.

Digital_Demon7 · 2022-10-26T18:13:43+00:00

Shapiro is absolutely shit. A psuedo-intellectual.

Jp has some really good advice for men. I really looked up to him before he decided to desecrate Al-Aqsa along with Ben shapiro.

I kinda like matt walsh. His what is a woman documentary was much needed.

StatisticianQuirky61 · 2022-10-26T22:12:43+00:00

Ben Shapiro is an over confident and lacks modern language and education.

Bojack35 · 2022-10-26T19:15:22+00:00

Ben Shapiro is terrible, an example of the worst form of debating that has taken over political discourse. He picks easy targets, is more concerned with appearance and 'outsmarting' his opponent than engaging the actual issue and is so defensive when challenged. 'I am right and I am smarter than you dont you dare say otherwise' is 10 year old level discussion. His fanboys are intolerable.

I know nothing of Matt Walsh other than his 'what is a woman' documentary which sounds like shooting fish in a barrel. In my ignorance I will assume him to at least try to engage in genuine conversation and so be better than Shapiro.

Peterson makes simple points very well and at his best engages in sensible debate with a level of research and pleasing calmness. However at his worst he can get very showman like and seems to have gone a little crazy in recent years.

None of these men should be particularly admired. The celebrity status of Peterson and Shapiro is bizarre.

One-Low8135 · 2022-10-26T17:54:06+00:00

JP is second to none. Never seen him lose an argument (even with crazy people yelling at him and trying to "one up" him)
Ben Shapiro... he's really fast and seems to understand how to paint you into a corner (with your own help).
Matt Walsh comes at you with facts and will methodically disintegrate non-sense. I've seen him lose his footing here and there, but overall he's great

Eleusis713 · 2022-10-26T19:15:31+00:00

Was JP ever defeated (objectively) in an argument and can you send a link?

Other subjects aside, Jordan Peterson is not an objective thinker when it comes to topics like religion and philosophy. He has a history of fixating on the hypothetical utility of religion which is fine and all, but he conflates that with the truth of religion which is a problem. His views tend to be a bit convoluted once you dig into the details a bit. I don't even think he knows himself what he believes is true because he uses metaphorical truth / utility and objective truth interchangeably so much.

Philosophy can generally be broken down into the following: empiricism, logic, ethics, and semantics. Empiricism is essentially science, logic is a priori deduction, ethics concerns normative statements about what one should do and what guides our actions, and semantics is just the assignment of arbitrary symbols to concepts.

When it comes to religion and philosophy, Peterson engages almost exclusively with semantics but he thinks he's operating in the realms of empiricism and logic. At first, one might think this is a deliberate dishonest debate tactic, but I really don't think he understands that he's doing this. When he redefines "truth", he thinks he's asserting or deducing facts about the world but he's really just playing word games. His 4 part (8 hour) Pangburn discussion with Sam Harris did a good job at revealing his errors in thinking. Here's the first part.

His debate with Matt Dillahunty was also revealing. There was a segment about psychedelics and their use in treating addiction where Peterson flat out misrepresents the science. Genetically Modified Sceptic made a video addressing this that's worth watching. Here a link. Peterson often hides behind science that he knows other people might not be familiar with. This gives him more leeway to misrepresent the science to support his points.

All this said, as bad as Peterson is on certain subjects, he's still far better than the other two people mentioned, and I think all of them are deeply problematic.

Comfortable_Ad_574 · 2022-10-27T17:19:44+00:00

Shapiro? I hate him. He always picks easy targets and he is not that useful for Men's Rights.

Matt Walsh? I barely watched him, but from what I seen of him, I got the impression that he cared about men. But I haven't seen any of his newer videos.

Jordan Peterson? He is very smart. I admired him, but he went downhill a little lately.

OKCThunderfan32 · 2022-10-26T18:04:43+00:00

They all suck

OpenMindedMantis · 2022-10-26T18:29:46+00:00

Putting their utterances to the side, it's their courage to speak out against what they disagree with that makes them stand out the most to me.

Their ability to clearly articulate their positions has a lot to do with it too.

They each stand out for their own reasons and as such a rank order doesn't really reflect how I see them. JP is very methodical and in depth, BS is very fast and sharp witted, finally MW employs humor the best out of the three from what I've seen of him.

Each has vastly different expertise and as such each brings something totally unique to the table.

goinsouth85 · 2022-10-26T18:36:12+00:00

JP is the best of the bunch. I have never heard ANYONE even come close to defeating him in an argument. That said - in most situations, the debate are very rarely about a broad issue, but about his books. So he IS the issue and chooses his words carefully. When the debate is about something that he wrote and he is careful not to say anything stupid, of course he never gets tripped up. His books are very good. I strongly recommend 12 Rules for Life. Another comment has said that somebody beat up JP, so I will have to take a look at it myself.

Ben Shapiro - he’s smart. He will debate broader issues, which is not easy to do. That said, I think he picks fights with soft competition, like college students. BBC host Andrew Neil positively destroyed him. Neil Degrasse Tyson disarmed him pretty well, too.

Matt Walsh - he is a one trick pony. He basically asks “what is a woman?” and let’s the liberals hang themselves. And it is usually epic. Beyond that, I don’t think he is in the same league as the other two.

JMSB59 · 2022-10-26T18:58:38+00:00

I would probably say Peterson first, as mentioned above he speaks a great deal to young men about responsibility and purpose which I value greatly. His book 12 rules for life really helped me realize such things as a young man myself. I like Shapiro more than Walsh, Ben is comedic and smart very interesting to hear him give a political run down of present events. Do I take him more serious that Peterson? No. There is nothing wrong with Walsh he is smart and well put together, he is a little extreme for my liking, and hard to tell when he is joking. I believe he identifies himself as a fascist which you would think is a joke but he does seem to like the ideas similar fascism..so unsure what to draw from that. I am right wing myself but he is a little much for me, not my type of entertainment but if he is yours all power to you. What is a woman I heard great things about

grump63 · 2022-10-26T20:07:42+00:00

Love Jordan Peterson, most of the way through 12 rules for life and I've learned so much. I don't care what people say about him, when he is on his subject of clinical psychology he is smart.

I liked Matt Walsh for a few days but something about his content struck me as fundamentalist conservative.

Ben has a lot of based takes and a lot of cringe takes. Entertaining but not my personality of choice.

Orwellisnow · 2022-10-27T03:08:39+00:00

For my tastes:

1 - JP. Hands down does more to benefit human flourishing than either of the other two. You can tell he genuinely wants people to better themselves and by extension, the world around them. He tells you the hard truths you need to hear to get out of your own way in life.

2 - Shapiro. Very facts and logic based. Grounded in reality and argues for reality based end results.

3 - Walsh. I find his style pretty funny actually. Smart regular Joe kind of guy.

Reddit1984Censorship · 2022-10-26T17:37:24+00:00

JP god tier of all the possible hirearchies *moving hands*
Ben Shapiro god tier conservative (husband of a doctor)
Matt Walsh, What is a Matt Walsh?

Dramatic-Essay-7872 · 2022-10-26T19:18:32+00:00

1.jordan peterson (by a mile)

2.ben shapiro

3.matt walsh

do you know camille paglia?

i think petersons arguments about competence hierarchies or free speech are correct... however i disagree with him on public health care or public social care "equity" but im aware that funding said things are an issue aswell as bureaucracy...

shit-zen-giggles · 2022-10-27T02:26:10+00:00

Was JP ever defeated (objectively) in an argument and can you send a link?

Yes, he was.

Peterson calls mgtow pathetic weasels

Karen Straughan gently wipes out his argument

peterson's apology

As for the title question: Who gives a shit, really? Three different people doing different things. To me that's like comparing Michael Jordan to Michael Phelps. Both do sports, both are excellent in their sport, but it's different sports. Rank ordering apples and oranges is a futile endeavor.

BrapForce1 · 2022-10-27T05:32:44+00:00

Ben Shapiro is hot garbage, just a reactionary. Matt Walsh, Ben Shapiro but worse.

JP has a good message but after reading a couple of his books, they really could have been better as a series of way shorter blog posts. He is not someone who thrives in the spotlight, so when the world came crashing down on him he (through no fault of his own) was not fit to handle it. Crashed and burned and hasn’t really been able to recover.

Honestly, I think JP relies a little too much on the Bible for his philosophy. The Bible was written by several cultures over thousands of years and lacks a clear message as a whole. His focus on Jungian archetypes is putting the metaphorical team on its back.

Just_Luck_5495 · 2022-10-28T10:24:28+00:00

Haven't heard of Matt Walsh, but I can't make up my mind about who's worse between shapiro and jp. Both are clowns that much goes without saying.

Title	Give me a ranking on JP, Matt Walsh and Ben Shapiro and your reasons for that
Author	WildGrave2
Upvotes	0
Comments	70
Date	October 26, 2022 5:33 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/ye3w5h/give_me_a_ranking_on_jp_matt_walsh_and_ben/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/give-me-a-ranking-on-jp-matt-walsh-and-ben-shapiro.1137230 https://theredarchive.com/post/1137230

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