Why MRA and not Egalitarian?

Juan_Golt · 2013-07-23T00:59:44+00:00

Why doesn't the ADL advocate for all religions? Why don't black civil rights groups focus on all forms of prejudice? Why don't all people just join a group called 'fairness' where we can make life fair for everyone? Answer: because fair means different things to different people.

I wish the world were as simple as you describe, but unfortunately marginal groups that lack a singular focus tend to be co-opted quite easily by more mainstream views. There are changes I want to see in the world. I doubt an 'egalitarian' movement is going to provide the impetus to:

Give men a chance in family court
Recognize Men's reproductive rights
Protect men from the moral panic in progress about rape
Protect men from stalking and domestic violence

netweavr · 2013-07-22T23:18:10+00:00

Why do you think Egalitarian and MRA are mutually exclusive?

PoliticalCry · 2013-07-22T23:17:16+00:00

I basically consider myself egalitarian, but as there are already groups fighting for women it seems like there needs to be louder voices on this side.

Pecanpig · 2013-07-23T02:57:07+00:00

I do consider myself egaliterian (no capitalization), I'm pretty sure more MRA's do.

Dronelisk · 2013-07-22T23:19:11+00:00

One thing you need to take into account is that feminist does not equal woman, and viceversa.

That being said, I've never heard much of egalitarian theory or arguments, that's probably why I haven't paid much attention to it

KRosen333 · 2013-07-23T08:03:47+00:00

I do consider myself egalitarian. If there was a reasonable womans rights sub, I would post there too.

But there isn't. Feminism is not womens rights.

Demonspawn · 2013-07-23T01:20:13+00:00

why wouldn't you consider yourself an Eglitarian?

How do you plan to normalize the disposability between men and women?

Because until you can do that, you'll never hold men and women to the same level of responsibility.

And without the same responsibility, there is no case for the same rights.

As such, I'm an MRA rather than a supporter of Feminism 2.0 movement known as Egalitarianism.

rightsbot · 2013-07-22T23:04:17+00:00

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aPseudonymPho · 2013-07-23T17:04:44+00:00

I don't have any specific reply to contribute, however I asked this exact same question (albeit with differing points) when I first discovered the MRM and Egalitarian movements as "things that existed" some months ago. It got fairly good responses, so I figured I'd link to it so you had another pool of replies and opinions to consider, some of which may not show up in this thread this time around.

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/132uwv/why_mens_rights_and_not_simply_egalitarianism/

themountaingoat · 2013-07-23T00:08:41+00:00

I think anyone in favor of equality should be more focused on men's issues these days because years of single sided, bigoted advocacy have made it so men undoubtedly have the shorter end of the stick in western nations.

2013-07-23T13:29:36+00:00

Because Feminists have stolen the word "equality" and use it to refer to anything that benefits women and hurts men. If we started a group that didn't specifically address men's issues then feminists would move in, co-opt it, and start demanding that we focus on women's issues. This is what they always do. And you can hear their insane frustration that they can't co-opt this movement and make it all about women, because it's already all about men.

ghebert001 · 2013-07-23T01:41:52+00:00

Women have a voice, men don't.

why can't both of our parties (?) just get along and meet in the middle at Eglitarian?

Because feminists don't want equality...they just want the advantages men have without the disadvantages. Example...when only the ruling class were allowed to vote, eventually other men were given the same right but with the expectation that they would fight for their country. Rights with responsibilities. Women got the right to vote because they asked for it.

HappyGerbil88 · 2013-07-23T02:07:36+00:00

I am VERY wary of the egalitarian movement. "Gender neutral" things like that tend to be taken over by Feminists, and then they end up not-so-gender neutral. The transition from women's studies courses to the allegedly neutral gender's studies courses is one example. They're still not gender neutral, still not equal, still focus almost entirely on women's issues. VAWA is another example. They finally put gender neutral language in it... but it still primarily benefits female victims while ignoring male victims. I fear the same will happen to egalitarianism, it will be taken over by feminists who want to pretend they support equality when really just the same old Feminists BS.

However, you seem to be under the mistaken impression that Feminism and MRA are two sides of the same egalitarian coin. We are not. Being an MRA is fully compatible with egalitarianism; we may only advocate for men's rights, but we support equality in general. This is NOT the case with Feminism, though they try to convince people otherwise. Mainstream Feminist organizations such as NOW oppose custody rights for fathers; they oppose punishing false rape accusers and often even deny that it's an issue at all; they oppose any sort of reproductive rights for men, even in cases of rape or deception, or if the man finds out he's not the real father; they were behind the Feds ordering colleges and universities to remove the presumption of innocence from a student accused of rape, which has lead to many innocent men being expelled from school. They seek to expand the definition of rape to include consensual sex where the woman is even a little drunk. Feminists continue to spread lies such as the bogus "Women earn 77% of what men earn for the same job." Feminists are NOT egalitarian. It goes beyond simply not advocating for men's rights, Feminists advocate against men's rights, and continue to marginalize our issues with their mythical notion of male privilege. These aren't radfems, these are mainstream, influential feminist organizations, and these beliefs are at the heart of the Feminist movement. To support Feminism is to oppose equality, and therefore they are against both egalitarianism and men's rights.

Riktrat · 2013-07-25T00:44:08+00:00

It depends on how far one is desiring to push the envelope, I theorize. An Egalitarian, to me, wishes to see gender harmony and equality worked out through the dismantling of regressive policies and bias. The end goal is the abolishment of gender roles. Whereas an MRA is looking to create more male positive policies and bias in an effort to 'catch up' on the feminists. MRAs end goal is to create a new role for men to play in a world turned sideways by feminist policies. One is a deconstructor ideology and the other is a constructor ideology. Both have positive/negative aspects to them

thunder_mcshock · 2013-07-23T01:38:24+00:00

Why 'cashier' and not 'everything a capitalist society needs to function including but not limited to cashiers'?

Answer: Because there are too few 'cashiers' and way too many 'everything else'.

^{note - cashiers probably aren't actually in short supply but you get what i'm trying to say}

avantvernacular · 2013-07-23T18:26:23+00:00

I consider myself both, and I do not see them as necessarily different.

Benthazaal · 2013-07-23T02:59:10+00:00

Because a little gray paint in a tin of black paint, people would still call it black. A little white paint in a tin of black paint, and your probably gonna end up with a shade of grey.

DavidByron · 2013-07-23T17:02:34+00:00

Better to be an anti-feminist.

Feminism is a cancer eating away at our society and anyone who is egalitarian (a word which is hardly necessary since basically everyone is, so why have a word for it?) ought to be doing something to bring them down.

Title	Why MRA and not Egalitarian?
Author	TheEsqimo
Upvotes	7
Comments	69
Date	July 22, 2013 11:03 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1iuh3j/why_mra_and_not_egalitarian/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/why-mra-and-not-egalitarian.1168161 https://theredarchive.com/post/1168161

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