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MP says rape accused should have anonymity

JohnKimble111

March 29, 2018
703 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-43578660
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Post Information
Title MP says rape accused should have anonymity
Author

JohnKimble111

Upvotes 703
Comments 52
Date March 29, 2018 7:15 AM UTC
(8 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/87zbfg/mp_says_rape_accused_should_have_anonymity/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/mp-says-rape-accused-should-have-anonymity.1178680
https://theredarchive.com/post/1178680
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Comments

[–]Wisemanner 100 points101 points102 points 8 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

The number of MPs supporting this move is still small, but growing. Notice how others still go on about "victims" even though everything is in their favour already.

[–]Meyright 89 points90 points91 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Falsely accused are "victims" too. They need to be protected. We need to get this message across

[–]LesbianSpaceRocks 39 points40 points41 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

But the traditional sense of "innocent until proven guilty" has all but been dragged through Hell and back.

[–]Meyright 26 points27 points28 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, they try to taint and associate pillars of our civilization, things like "innocent until proven guilty" or "free speech" as bad and right wing. We live in crazy times

[–]Rethgil 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks to feminism

[–]tenchineuro 21 points22 points23 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Falsely accused are "victims" too. They need to be protected.

Feminists and woman's advocates deny this strenuously.

I don't believe that they have a concept that men can be innocent.

[–]Rethgil 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Many feminists openly state they believe "all men are rapists".

Its the feminist version of 'original sin'.

And they damn ONLY males for their mere existence.

[–]OnlyTheRealAdvice 8 years ago* [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

Are you saying you don't #BelieveHer? You sound like a misogynist!

[–]Meyright 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

I know you're joking but what I would actually say is care for the rape victim accuser as though you believe her/him but investigate/collect evidence in both directions.

[–]Elvick 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You can't view them as a rape victim and remain impartial. To have a rape victim, you have to have a rapist. That's why we're in this mess to begin with. Because people always refer to the accuser as "victim". You can't have a victim without a perpetrator. And they are already pointing the finger at somebody.

It's fine on a personal level to believe somebody saying, "I was raped". There's no accusation with that. So there's no actual harm. But when they start accusing specific people of it, I'm out. I'll encourage going to the police and leave it alone from there.

You don't think this 'victim' narrative is one of the reasons why police will actually ignore evidence proving innocence? They already view the accused as a victim. How is that not going to cloud their judgement?

[–]Meyright 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You're right, accuser is the better word.

[–]Pillowed321 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

When I saw the headline I expected it to be Phillip Davies again. Are there actually now multiple MPs who support men's rights?

[–]Mencite 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Dozey he's not supporting men's rights he just want to sweep this under the carpet. We need the public to know what's going on that's the only thing that wakes men up to how precarious their position in society is.

[–]Rethgil 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Philip Davies has proved to be a trailblazer, clearing a path for others who now know its worth pursuing.

[–]Fuckoff555 19 points20 points21 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This shit should have been done a long time ago, mob mentality doesn't care about innocent until proven guilty. And in cases of crimes like rape when it's a he/she said situation, people will always believe that the accused is guilty, sometimes even after it's proved that he's innocent.

[–]Lethn 15 points16 points17 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think the whole concept of publicising court cases was a mistake, it leads to witch hunts and mob rule. I wonder if, due to their vigilantism the police involved in covering up these cases know this as we've seen that there are definitely feminists amongst their ranks who follow the "Men are always the perpetrator and women the victim" belief and that's why they frequently consort with the press and put out the names of the accused.

I think he's right though, only when the court case is actually over should names be revealed if you're going to do it at all.

[–]Mencite 28 points29 points30 points 8 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

John why do we want anonymity we want the public to know whats going on.

We have to start addressing the fact that Western values are sick to the core. Why should the welfare of women be ten times as important as men in the first place? Why are crimes against women treated as ten times as important as crimes against men.

[–]throwawaylifespan 26 points27 points28 points 8 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Remove anonymity from false accusers.

[–]Mencite -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Maybe but ultimately we want to wake men up to how precarious their situation in Western countries is. Do we want this bullying of men to be swept under the carpet.
Men themselves are their own worst enemies we have to be more practical and tactical. We have to stop thinking we support all men we must focus on attention on supporting MRA's. We certainly don't need to support sporting heroes who invariably decry us as misogynistic or losers given they're insulated form the real world surrounded by fawning women.

If such white knights get a bloody nose from the female victimhood steamroller why is that so bad? They'd be the first to attack us if we speak up about the true danger of female victimhood.

[–]throwawaylifespan 12 points13 points14 points 8 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

As a bullied man who lost every everything to a series of false accusations, what do you think I believe?

I genuinely believe in equally of opportunities; I would say I am pro first first wave femism. However, I know my history. Very few men could vote when stupid women were throwing themselves under horses; one had to be a gentleman - industrial revolution Englishmen did not qualify in the main.

[–]Mencite 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Sorry to hear you were falsely accused however I was awakened to what was going on without being falsely accused, I was waiting WTF is wrong with all the other guys can't they see what's really going on.

Hopefully a lot of other guys can see what happens to these high profile players to see what's going on without having being falsely accused. Its better it happens to one famous athlete than to 20 ordinary guys these cases are swept under the carpet. I wish it wasn't necessary for another guy to be falsely accused but it appears like it is. Guys can't look at the world and see what's going on they're so trained in the nurturing instinct towards women when they see a guy like me criticising women they have to attack me in defense of the women folk. They have to feel the injustice of they themselves or someone else being bullied by the system to see how precarious their position is.

[–]throwawaylifespan 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

A false accusation of marital rape is a now a standard opening gambit for marital assets as far as I can tell for divorce. It's moved on from standard domestic violence false accusations.

Without video evidence of a rape occurring somewhere and a pre-documented safe word being clearly used, I will not provide a guilty vote within any jury charged with deciding on that offence.

I was very lucky - it was very obvious that the accusation was knowingly false to all who took a look at it. Other guys are not so lucky.

[–]Mencite 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Glad to hear this false allegation did't get anywhere. But why bother to convict a guy accused of rape time we stopped treating women as ten times as important as men.

[–]throwawaylifespan 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

hear hear.

[–]Mencite 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Ok next time there's a discussion about anonymity for defendants join in with me saying that why should women be ten times more important than men. Why do we want anonymity why do we want this treatment of men swept under the carpet. False accusations are the best weapon in our arsenal.

[–]throwawaylifespan 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Sure.

[–]Mencite2 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Thanks.

[–]throwawaylifespan1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-ditch-practice-of-believing-all-victims-jsg6qd2ws

Murdoch 'news'paper but widely reported.

[–]Seph1roth17 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Because that’s exactly what extreme feminists are doing to everyone who doesn’t alingn with their side. Inevitably causing people to join our protests against injustices. This attitude is toxic to this sub because it makes us exactly like them. We should work to educate and bring in those celebrity males you detest as well as others who are open to hearing what we have to say rather than excluding and isolating them. If we do that then nobody will listen to what we have to say but rather just see us as bitter people mad about things unimportant to them. Which is kind of how you are coming off. Notice the pattern? This is exactly how feminists want people to see us. Your mindset of push out everyone who doesnt agree will only expedite peoples thinking that way. Rather than welcoming those curious to learn into our fold. Being denounced by a male celebrity is nothing. Most of the time it back fires on them anyways causing them to reevaluate their position privately or otherwise. These guys will eventually learn things either through themselves or because something happens to someone or someone they know. Thats the thing about injustice and gender discrimination; as hard as you believe in modern feminism and say you are on their side one false step or mistake brings their world crashing down over your head because at the end of the day, you still have a penis. So let those guys say what they will. Most people dont even take men seriously when they say they are feminists (see having a penis above) so its viewed more as pandering to their fanbase. In the meantime lets keep our line of rational discourse and discussion backed by evidence. Convincing others why our problems are real things to be dealt with. Rather than screaming emotionally charged babble making the whole group look like a bunch of guys jumping around stating “The worlds unfair!”

Ps. Im on mobile so fuck formatting. Narwhals shortcuts don’t seem to work as well anymore.

[–]Mencite 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Problem is we can't bring them in with just words, Western culture is so trained in the nurturing instinct towards women we can't see the injustice towards men. We can't feel the injustice of this guy bullied by the system we're just trained to get angry with him.
Sorry we won't just logically wake men up by explaining to them. Men have to experience this aggression by the state or see a friend experience it to awake to how bad it is. Even you who've found your way to this board have little idea of how bad the system is towards men.

Yea maybe I do come across as bitter but in discussing this publicly I would discuss it in a way that's more palatable to new commers but on this board among MRA's we should be able to discuss tactics and strategy honestly. I don't push out any body but for any movement to grow a core cohesive group has to form we have to know who are the guys we can count on we have help them in return when they challenge the system. No point in concentrate on helping a new guy who'll go back to condemning us when we solve his problems. Again not a point I make publicly but here we need to discuss tactics honestly.

These guys will eventually learn things either through themselves or because something happens to someone or someone they know.

Which is my point too.

And if we have a strong cohesive group we'll be able to challenge the system we won't have to cry about the world being unfair.

[–]furchfur 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

We should email him and Philip Davies with support for this policy.

[–]Rethgil 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Any links to make that easier for us?

[–]furchfur 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

http://www.ianpaisleymp.co.uk/contact/

[–]Mencite 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Why do we want to sweep this under the carpet. Right is on our side we want men to know how precarious their position in society is. When guys see their heroes have fallen it upsets them and makes them see how anti men the system can be.

[–]trygold 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I would be in favor of anyone charged with a crime not being identified.

[–]Rethgil 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

When you think about it, unless there is a specific imminent high threat to others, what possible benefit is there to naming someone accused before they're found guilty?

And especially so when its a crime often associated with high levels of false accusations?

[–]trygold 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The only thing I can think of would be for investigative purpose . Finding other victims of a suspected serial rapist or child molester. Identifying victims of fraud that may not even realize they have been taken. Things like that .

[–]backthefuckupbitch 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is how how to conduct a witch hunt not how to conduct a police investigation.

[–]tenchineuro 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

People standing trial for rape should not be identified unless they are found guilty, Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) MP Ian Paisley has said.

It follows the high-profile trial of rugby players Paddy Jackson and Stuart Olding who were acquitted of rape.

Mr Paisley called for a change in the law to give the accused the same right to anonymity as a rape complainant.

But Alliance and the Greens criticised the justice system over how it treats people who report they have been raped.

This ain't going anywhere.

[–]arnoldwhat 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

We are attacking this from the wrong angle. I'm not sure how it works in the UK, but in the U.S. publishing names of those arrested is one of the few protections we have against cops black bagging people (not that it stopped cops in Chicago).

What I think we need are protections for those who are accused. Such as making it illegal to fire someone or kick them out of school for simply being accused of a crime.

[–]altmehere 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I doubt that would work if only because I'd imagine there would be such a target on their backs that work/school might be made a living hell for them anyways at best, and at worst they'll find another reason to fire/expel.

[–]TheToadShroom 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That is somewhat plausible in a era before widespread police cams. Now publishing the names of people just serves as it's own form of punishment.

[–]Nude-eh 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Actually, all accused should have anonymity.

[–]Halafax 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Eh... depends on how it's handled. If this becomes an opportunity for the government to "disappear" people with an accusation, they will certainly use it as such.

[–]Lallo-the-Long 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Nope. Trials should be as public as possible no matter the crime. The only time the public should be cut out is when there is a provable threat.

[–]Mencite 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree why do we want to sweep this anti men sentiment under the carpet where men never see what's going on. Truth is on our side we want men to see how bad it is.

[–]Rethgil 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

McCarthyism.

[–]Lallo-the-Long 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That is a word, sure.

[–]Rethgil 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Wow! I'm amazed to read this. Whether he succeeds or fails, at least it sparks a debate which most people would never even think about otherwise. Now they are having to consider this.

Great news!

[–]Mencite 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Why do we want to sweep this anti men sentiment under the carpet where men never see what's going on. Truth is on our side we want men to see how bad it is.

[–]BlackHole94 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

A real hero.

People need to understand the trauma it causes to be falsely accused of rape. This isn’t an easy thing or process to be victim of. Especially if innocent and acquitted, a google search of your name will speak about those accusations of rape.

We all know that people can abuse any system, and this is no different.

We need equal rights for alleged victims and alleged perpetrators.

[–]jokoon 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Mmmmmh anonymity until the trial at least.

I doubt that you can sue anonymously.

But if you can accuse anonymously, maybe the accused should stay anonymous too?

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