Woman Tries Punching Herself to 'frame husband for domestic violence', Security Footage Saves Him.

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For whatever it's worth, it's a really small minority that this actually happens to. Doesn't change that it actually happens, but it's probably less than you're thinking.

You are literally talking out of your ass.

No one has any statistics or evidence to support any statement on "how often" something like that happens.

Because absent the evidence in this case which cleared the guy - he would have been unjustly convicted and no one would have realized, believed or recognized the injustice that occurred.

Unfortunately, the sad reality is that false charges and other forms of abusing the system happen far too often (twice is far too often) but we cannot and never will have any way of fairly measuring or counting such events.

As such, people who claim to be able to quantify it - are generally speaking - uninformed idiots repeating talking points they read somewhere.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]camouflagedsarcasm 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

We simply do not and most probably cannot ever know what percentages are real versus false - which is why the idea in our justice system that it is better for 10 guilty men to go free than one innocent man to be put in prison.

Unfortunately we seem to have allowed our thirst for revenge and punishment to corrupt our justice system.

I've read studies that estimated the number of people falsely imprisoned at around 11% (I looked for the source just now but it wasn't readily available sorry) - I can't vouch for that number but it seems to pass a gut check when I think about the types of errors that often lead to a false conviction.

I think we need to have a hard conversation that starts with the mental heuristics we all use to judge people when a crime happens (the tendency to assume guilt at the moment of accusation and to respond with our desired vengeance rather than justice) and then move on to how we can prevent our justice system from creating perverse incentives that lead to someone being imprisoned unjustly.

For one thing, I think we need to remove DAs from the position of choosing who to charge and for what crimes - rather I think the police should provide the evidence to an appointed panel of say of a judge, a prosecutor and a defense attorney and they should decide if the evidence supports a charge and which charge.

At that point, the case could be handed to a prosecutor for trial or settlement. This would also have the benefit of eliminating major issue of brady violations by prosecutors where the prosecutors hide evidence that could exonerate a subject.

The problem is that it is essential for a prosecutor that they win their cases and look tough on crime - neither of those key job performance indicators however are required to apply or helpful in obtaining justice.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Well in order to get someone charged, you do have to go through several people, many of which are defense attorneys or previous defense attorneys before becoming a judge, magistrate or judicial commissioner.

It's not just one person deciding to charge someone. It goes through a commissioner or magistrate or judge, then goes on to a lower judge solely to determine if there's probable cause. Presuming you make it past that, you then go to a grand jury. Then you finally make it to a real court with a normal jury and a judge.

We do hide some things from those juries, but it isn't always one sided. For instance, we can't bring up past convictions. So you charge a guy with arson that's been convicted of arson 13 times, the jury doesn't know that. Most reasonable people would impose guilt automatically, but because of that we remove that aspect.

I don't doubt there are lots of people being falsely accused and even convicted. I do believe the vast majority of those cases are where one person is the sole evidence, and all of those other people rely on their testimony. Which does narrow it down to specific types of crimes it's likely to happen more in than others.

[–]camouflagedsarcasm 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It's not just one person deciding to charge someone. It goes through a commissioner or magistrate or judge,

I'm not sure how it works in TN, I did a quick gander and most of the information I found was talking about after a person is formally charged so not so helpful.

Here in WA, the prosecutor's office (Usually led by a DA and comprised of several associate prosecutors) has full and sole discretion to file charges or not and what charges to file.

then goes on to a lower judge solely to determine if there's probable cause.

Yes that is a second step - the problem is that the first step is already massively prejudicial to the defendant - because prosecutors can rack and stack charges at will - without any judicial review at that point and it doesn't matter whether they think they can get a conviction or not.

Why? Because more than 85% of criminal cases are settled without going to trial - a large part of reason for so many settlements is that prosecutors can stack charges to make it look like someone is at risk of decades of jail time and then offer them what seems like a sweetheart deal.

I mean, if you didn't commit a crime but the prosecutor is threatening you with 50 years if you claim to be innocent, but will let you off with 3 years suspended if you plead to a lesser charge. It can be very easy for a innocent person, especially an innocent person who can't afford the cost of a good attorney, to just say fuck it and try to put it all behind them.

So how does this play out? Well, poor defendants are leveraged and frankly extorted into a guilty plea that seems the best way out for them, while people who can afford a proper defense put the prosecutor in a position where he has to actually back up and try to win on the racked stack of charges.

Since he can't, he quickly drops the worst and tries to make a deal - often times just having a private attorney can be enough to get a case against someone dismissed if the prosecutor isn't feeling confident in his evidence and doesn't want to take the loss.

Nobody wants to walk into a corporate job interview or run a political campaign bragging about how they won 50% of their cases - it doesn't look good - so a prosecutor is going to consider his career prospects and avoid taking a chance at losing, especially in a high profile case unless he's very confident he will win.

I know several people who were guilty as hell of relatively minor offenses but who could afford top shelf lawyers and the prosecutor simply declined to prosecute because he couldn't win a fair fight.

I don't doubt there are lots of people being falsely accused and even convicted. I do believe the vast majority of those cases are where one person is the sole evidence

I agree, and the problem specifically in these cases is that one person's evidence is all there is, not only to prove guilt but in many cases to even prove there was a crime committed.

Any time you allow a person to both allege a crime and accuse the suspect without requiring any other evidence, you create a situation vulnerable to the worst abuses.

Think about it, if you call the cops and say your house was burgled, they are going to expect to see physical evidence that conforms with that allegation.

Honestly, I know it will make certain types of crimes more difficult to convict but we simply cannot allow one person's testimony absent concrete confirming evidence that a crime even occurred to deprive another person of their liberty.

We've gotten to a point with certain crimes (rape and domestic violence specifically) where people have gone to prison without any evidence that a crime was committed nor any evidence that they were guilty of the crime except for the sole testimony of the victim.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not sure how it works in TN, I did a quick gander and most of the information I found was talking about after a person is formally charged so not so helpful. Here in WA, the prosecutor's office (Usually led by a DA and comprised of several associate prosecutors) has full and sole discretion to file charges or not and what charges to file.

See that's my point. You can't skip that important step in the process, because it is designed to weed out weak charges or ones without probable cause, just as the preliminary hearing is designed to do again, even though this has already been done.

Not to mention the police or an investigator has to be part of this process, so you're skipping another important step there as well. People don't go straight from their house to court. Either an officer is going to take them to the jail, and then submit an Affidavit of Complaint (Arrest Warrant) to that lower judge or to a commissioner or magistrate of some sort. Then they have pre-trial THEN it'll go through to the DA's office who can either drop the charges right there because they think they're bullshit, or continue on with the case in court and then on to their preliminary hearing. They're not the ones investigating the case, they're not solely responsible for anything at all. Before it gets to them it has already gone through at least one judge, magistrate or judicial commissioner.

Now I do agree that the deck is stacked against people that have lower income and have to rely on the public defenders. They're not the types of attorneys to attempt to get people off no matter what. They're not going to go the extra mile and find their own witnesses or evidence. Quite frankly, they don't have time because they have so many clients at any given time anyways. Most public defenders are only there to make sure that everyone else in the process held up their responsibility to stay within the guidelines of the constitutions, both the US and state constitutions, as well as any supreme court decisions etc. They're making sure the process is done right. If we could perhaps bolster that system a bit, then perhaps the people without the income to provide their own high dollar attorney, could very well have a fighting chance when they're actually innocent.

We've gotten to a point with certain crimes (rape and domestic violence specifically) where people have gone to prison without any evidence that a crime was committed nor any evidence that they were guilty of the crime except for the sole testimony of the victim.

The problem with that is that those are citizens who are determining whether or not that person is guilty. If those citizens decided they believed that person over the other, unfortunately that's a side effect of that system. I'm sure more often in DV than rape someone would be willing to take a plea. I doubt many innocent people in a rape charge are going to fall for that. Obviously neither of us could ever know that or know the percentages of them, but it feels like most people who are falsely accused of rape would stick it out through the trial process, given the much higher stakes.

However, you bring up a point of letting several guilty people go free to save one innocent person. Usually DV laws a bit more strict than your average crimes, especially the lower misdemeanors such as Assault etc.

Those are there for a reason. It just sucks when that reason screws over a decent person who did nothing wrong (like the gentleman above). I assume the lawmakers of most states decided that they'd rather have few innocent people go to jail, than a few actual victims get murdered by their significant others because of a lack of those laws.

For instance, here we only have a few misdemeanors that a police officer can arrest an individual for without having witnessed the crime. Those, for the most part, are DV crimes, DUI, Stalking and a few other ones that I forget. A regular run of the mill misdemeanor, such as two guys that got in a bar fight and nobody was seriously injured, would simply be a report and then an investigator would follow it up later and determine if anyone could/should be charged, or in some cases even both.

Because of those laws, which states that the officer SHALL arrest someone if they have probable cause to determine a DV had occurred, has lead to quite a few people going to jail that shouldn't have, but they also saved a lot of legitimate victim's lives because the other party was in jail. So where is the line? Do we relax the DV laws that make it so easy for someone to manipulate the system, but then cost some of the real victims their lives or sanity? Or do we stick to the current system where it simply takes an allegation with absolutely no evidence for the state law to demand someone be taken to jail?

It's something to ponder.

Your own state law says the same thing, but gives the officer an out if there is more than a 4 hour gap. We don't have that gap here, but we should.

I'll save the entire law because most of it doesn't fit here, but here is the relevant part.

RCW 10.31.100 Arrest without warrant.(c) The person is eighteen years or older and within the preceding four hours has assaulted a family or household member as defined in RCW 10.99.020 and the officer believes: (i) A felonious assault has occurred; (ii) an assault has occurred which has resulted in bodily injury to the victim, whether the injury is observable by the responding officer or not; or (iii) that any physical action has occurred which was intended to cause another person reasonably to fear imminent serious bodily injury or death. Bodily injury means physical pain, illness, or an impairment of physical condition. When the officer has probable cause to believe that family or household members have assaulted each other, the officer is not required to arrest both persons. The officer shall arrest the person whom the officer believes to be the primary physical aggressor. In making this determination, the officer shall make every reasonable effort to consider: (A) The intent to protect victims of domestic violence under RCW 10.99.010; (B) the comparative extent of injuries inflicted or serious threats creating fear of physical injury; and (C) the history of domestic violence of each person involved, including whether the conduct was part of an ongoing pattern of abuse.

Honestly, I only see these types of laws getting more strict before they get more relaxed.

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I’m with you on women not being inherently evil, but I can’t agree with you on that last bit. Women in the first world enjoy throngs of privilege and special treatment.

You’d have to be pretty willfully blind to think the man in the video would have managed to escape wrongful punishment if there hadn’t been a camera there to vouch for him. Fact is a few self-inflicted wounds with some crocodile tears are all it takes to throw a man’s life into the toilet, no actual wrongdoing needed. Or hell, not even that; just claim he raped you 30 years ago. Maybe the courts can’t do anything about that, but the outrage mob sure as hell will. No evidence needed.

Women also graduate more than men, earn more in their 20’s, and win over 90% of custody and alimony cases despite being the initiators of around 70% of divorces, the guilty party in about 70% of nonreciprocal DV cases (and about 40% in reciprocal DV), and are the guilty party in about half of divorces resulting from broken vows. They also make up less than 10% of workplace deaths, less than 5% of war-related deaths, commit suicide at lower rates, are homeless at lower rates, and live about 5-7 years longer in general.

We are not equal to them.

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Your comment definitely insinuates that any woman will turn on you when they can.

They will though. Just like most men will turn on you the moment it benefits them. It's hard to acknowledge just how bad most of the people around you are so it becomes easy to selectively ignore when people like you behave abhorrently. No one wants to think that humans are utterly selfish and their pretense of morality or common decency is an entirely transparent sham. That's a dark hole that you're personally much better off not going down, so it's just those people. If you don't become a sexist-and realistically most people are, talk privately to men and women in person when they're not playing their public persona and they'll say all kinds of derogatory generalizations about each other- you might become something far worse.

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[–]SterlingMNO 11 points12 points13 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

To everyone saying not to trust women in this thread

You're right, we should change it:

Trust no one.

If I don't know you very well, I'm not going to hear some claim that x did y before it's gone to court and been investigated and decide that Y must be telling the truth because of Z, whether 'Z' is 'woman', 'christian' or whatever.

There's a reason why people get pissed off over false abuse claims - because just the claim destroys peoples lives, and ontop of that more often than not they're made by women against men.

That's a problem you can't hush under the carpet by snakily creeping in here to in the most patronising way possible, call people misogynistic. Society as a whole needs to understand that abuse and assault aren't purely male crimes, I think you can forgive some men for being a bit irked by it. I get your point, and your comment probably fits better in this sub than it does others, but it's still not exactly appropriate.

It's low hanging fruit - I imagine you didn't insert yourself into the TwoXChrome sub to call people misandrists when they were running with the '#metoo' as a blanket call to trust and believe every single woman who cries rape against a man, because all men are capable of rape? So why are you inserting yourself here? To jump on the 'BUT MISOGYNY' bandwagon.

Your comment comes off as high and mighty with no depth whatsoever and simply an easy way for you to project your need to make sure the world knows you're a warrior for equality or something, by attacking people that are frustrated over inequality.

[–]chongamonga 27 points28 points29 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Agreed. However, gotta point out the opposite of this to, it’s immensely frustrating and discouraging seeing the stuff the TwoXChromosones or TrollX communities post generalizing about guys.

Misandry at its finest, and all in the name of “equality”.

Honestly, we shouldn’t be treating each other like this. We shouldn’t be even thinking like this. We shouldn’t be jumping on the band wagon or picking up our pitchforks for social acceptance.

So, to my dudes on this thread, stop it. It’s not cool. Guys do messed up things too. My fiancé and I, we’d never do something like this, we’d just walk away.

Immature people do stuff like that.

So, let’s not make this a gender thing and let’s stop spreading generalizations either way. Our goal should be to work together. What I see here is A PERSON doing something messed up.

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Title	Woman Tries Punching Herself to 'frame husband for domestic violence', Security Footage Saves Him.
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	4463
Comments	246
Date	February 18, 2019 2:40 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PussyPassDenied
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/pussypassdenied/comments/arxunz/woman_tries_punching_herself_to_frame_husband_for/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PussyPassDenied/woman-tries-punching-herself-to-frame-husband-for.1181539 https://theredarchive.com/post/1181539

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