Is MGTOW a problem for us and why men judge us all by the worst women they've met?

Christianirony · 2021-03-06T00:13:28+00:00

It’s like the same thing you’re feeling now. Being generalized with ppl without have a chance to say anything is ofc annoying, and the same goes for mans. Maybe all that “hate” throughout woman comes from bad experiences and fear.

When I think about it, I have also started to hate on woman (internally ofc) a time ago. Mostly because of all the injustices I saw and the fear I felt.

Notices of a man being falsely accused of rape did really scarified me. Even today it does, although I have overcome that premature feeling of hate since I became aware it wouldn’t bring anything good in my life.

Where I live for example if you get a false rape accusation, you’re probably screwed since the justice system doesn’t work very well and people really have that mentality of “the victim is always right” and “rape victims don’t lie”. When you’re always scarified of a bad outcome with someone who can destroy your life with 3 words, is just natural to start to hate what causes it in self defense.

Other problem it the sex war we’re having nowadays. Many women are seeing men as the cause of their problems and generalizing them with all the bad behavior some of them have. In my country, feminist have a relatively popular quote which says “every man is potential rapist”. The first time a girl told me that, I could feel anything but anger. Someone telling me that I could do something like that? It was disgusting.

So, I think the problem with MGTOW is almost the same thing you said it’s annoying you. Fear and false accusations without place to prove yourself.

I hope I could bring something new and apologize for my bad English xd

denver_coder99 · 2021-03-06T16:14:29+00:00

Yes, it is definitely a problem for women.

After 60-odd years of this social experiment on gender plus the last decade or so of it fuelled by social media, there is nothing to hide anymore. Dating and marriage prospects are less a matter of speculation these days than before because

we now have so much more data and from so many sources. Numbers don't lie. And to prove it Aaron Clarey has recently written a wildly popular book called "The Book of Numbers" that lays out in exquisite detail what it costs the average man to pursue marriage today. I encourage every marriageable-age man to read/listen to this. I will buy one for my son when he's old enough.
men have seen enough of this with their own eyes. The oldest Zoomers are 24 this year. They grew up experiencing and seeing the value of men drop through the floor via the state-backed hostility of divorce, family court and MeToo. These are their fathers, male relatives and culturally speaking, it's just everywhere. Male value is still dropping.
men have seen what's happened to the quality of women and frankly it's depressing. I don't need to spell out the full OnlyFans disaster here, but it's got enough Western governments spooked that they have created "Ministers for Sex", practically begging men to sleep with women and start families.

To pretend that this is not a problem is wilful ignorance. I would even say it's a growing problem. The upside for you redpill ladies is that this puts you head and shoulders above your competition.

KombuchaEnema · 2021-03-05T20:47:26+00:00

I have a few thoughts about this. My sympathetic view toward MGTOW might be controversial but I’m biased since my dad went MGTOW (without even knowing about the movement) following a very traumatic divorce with my mother who cheated on and abused him.

Firstly, I can completely understand why some men would resort to AWALT (all women are like that). Some men have been legitimately traumatized by women. I can say with 100% certainty that if I was a man who had to experience something like paternity fraud, I would probably also go MGTOW and avoid all women.

Here’s a truth that’s hard to swallow, and it applies to all of us: relationships require trust, and trust means taking a risk. I trust my fiancé not to cheat on me or give me an STI, but that doesn’t mean it won’t happen.

You could be the most wonderful, trustworthy, God-fearing woman on Earth - but unless a man is a mind-reader, he still has to trust you not to hurt him because he will never know with 100% certainty that you will treat him right. I know people who are outwardly kind and compassionate and honest but who will stab you in the back the moment you start trusting them.

Men who have had their trust broken in the most traumatic ways possible should not be shamed, in my opinion, for going their own way and frankly I don’t blame them. I wish them all the best in their bachelorhood. I genuinely hope they find happiness so long as they don’t go the PUA route and start hurting women to “get revenge” (which some people do while pretending to be MGTOW).

There are also some men in the redpill (not all, but some) who view themselves as “good men that got ignored for Chad” who are actually not good men and never were good men. They are the sort of people who simply lack the ability to critically analyze their own behaviors and flaws. They assume women preferred “Chad” over them but failed to recognize their own shallow, selfish, or toxic behaviors (while calling out those same behaviors when women do it).

There are genuinely good men who have gone MGTOW because they trusted a woman and got burned. There are genuinely bad men who have gone MGTOW because they failed to realize their own flaws.

I don’t think MGTOW is a huge problem for us. The only men I know who have gone MGTOW are men who were involved in a seriously messed up situation with a woman. I know a guy in real life who is extremely redpilled and even he still wants a wife.

Also, MGTOW guys don’t believe all women are the same. They simply don’t know how to tell which women are being honest and which women are lying (for example, about their n-count), so they think it’s safer to assume all women are lying rather than take a gamble and trust a woman who might be lying. That’s the theory behind AWALT (all women are like that).

AWALT doesn’t literally mean “all women are like that.” What it means is, “Not all women are like that, but we aren’t mind readers and can’t tell which women are or aren’t like that, so we just assume they are all like that.”

Again, this is the motto of men who have had their trust broken and who are now too wary to place their trust in another woman. To be honest, I can’t blame them. When your trust is broken enough times, you lose your faith in your ability to properly gauge how trustworthy someone is and your fear of getting hurt again trumps your desire for romantic companionship.

There are many MGTOW guys who say awful things about women. But there are also many who don’t hate women and simply don’t want to risk another traumatic heartbreak (like my father).

Whisper · 2021-03-08T02:58:50+00:00

Men there are bitter and completely positive to write women off, go completely their own way.

Male anger about what's happen between the sexes is the west is largely legitimate, but that's not going to matter to your individual life if and when you run into someone who is so angry at what you are that he can't see who you are.

In order to interact with someone, there has to be a certain baseline amount of trust. Even the act of speaking to someone is an act of trust, because it requires some belief that the other will care what we have to say.

When someone can't speak to you and trust you to hear, or listen to you and believe a word you say, there is nothing you can do to help them. That has to be left to someone who can still have a conversation with them. All you can do is gracefully depart their presence without causing more damage.

I'm getting really worried that myself and other good women weren't be able to find a good man.

You are correct that this is a problem for women collectively. Which is why you have to take care of yourself individually. If you, personally, are kind, feminine, warm, and considerate, and take an effort to understand men's point of view, you will stand out in a world of women who typically do not do this.

To put it more bluntly, when your competition is a bunch of selfish, narcissistic, spiteful cunts, all you have to do to stand out is be a decent human being, and men will reward you as if you were a paragon of virtue.

Then you can find a good relationship, and watch the chaos and fire from a safe distance.

scamall15 · 2021-03-07T13:45:29+00:00

You may not want to hear this or want this comment blocked, so lets see how it flies.

The information you’re looking at is often appealing to the lowest common denominator. Thus broad appeal. An intelligent man doesn’t use the word “ALL” to describe women. However that’s something women interpret as if no bad can ever be spoken about any woman at all.

As for how men judge women by the worst? Look at some bad behavior perpetrated by women which receives little to no punishment, and often is accepted or even celebrated by the culture in the West.

Women demand the right to choice when it comes to pregnancy yet prefer men have NO choice along the same lines. Notice it’s ok for a woman to have an abortion or leave her child behind “safe haven laws”, yet if a man is upfront about not wanting a child and doesn’t want to support/raise the child... culturally and legally we make sure to shackle that man and force it upon him. Additionally, cucking a man is legal. If a man unknowingly raises a child or simply plays any kind of supportive role in a child’s life that’s not his own, he’s at risk of being put on child support.

Single mothers is another good example. When women have reproductive choice, it means 100% of women who have a child (minus any r@p3 cases) are choices. If a woman is a single mother from the very beginning (which is often what it meant when it’s discussed), then she is literally destroying society. You rob the child’s connection with their father. Additionally, single mothers often want high quality men that are far above average. These women are often VERY angry when men don’t want to deal with them. No, raising another man’s child is NOT a life goal. Pouring time, energy and resources into another man’s child is NOT wonderful. Men don’t want this.

When it comes to marriage, women are the majority of those filing for divorce. Yet no one questions if a woman has a fear of commitment. And men can get over a divorce if not for the fact that women are hypergamous in nature which puts her in a position of filing for alimony and child support. There are numerous cases where men lose everything. Some men go to jail due to an inability to pay the alimony and child support. Then when he’s released, he can either pay what he owes or go back to jail.

The View which is a major mainstream show for women openly had the women giggling and laughing about how awesome it is for a man to have his penis cut off. Did anyone threaten the show successfully or have those people removed?

Then look at situations where little boys are r@p3d by older women. We know it’s wrong for a man to do this to a young girl. That man once caught and proven guilty gets a heavy jail sentence and is marked for life. Ever look into what happens to women who do this to young boys? Often she keeps her job, or marries the boy. Yes this happens in the west. If she is punished, she receives a jail sentence so minor that it’s laughable.

Now lets look at literature. There are numerous books like DAMN “How to Destroy a Man Now” which are instructions on how to destroy men. How something like this is acceptable when the reverse would not be tolerated says a lot.

Do you know why men pass judgement? Because it’s not that ALL women behave this way. It’s that you ALL have the potential. What do I mean? If a bad behavior is not shamed, punished and shown to be completely unacceptable, then it won’t stop. If a bad behavior is encouraged, it will grow out of control.

It starts with the law. Women commit to horrible acts that receive little to no punishment, or is rewarded.

Is MGTOW a problem? Your perspective on this matter is the problem as you are focusing on symptoms and not core problems. Have you asked yourself why men are interested in this? Even married men learn a lot from mgtow and admit they wouldn’t have gotten married if they knew about this beforehand. Why? All women aren’t monsters. However, all women represent a RISK. When the risk you pose to a man means you have the legal right to commit paternity fraud, take his assets in a divorce, use false accusations to destroy his career/life, or keep his children from him in a divorce.... it’s not worth it.
Men aren’t only looking at attractive party girls. When was the last time you spoke to men? A large number of men don’t go to those environments.

If you want more. Look at Cassie Jaye’s Red Pill movie. A feminist who looked into men’s rights in an attempt to destroy it realized, men have a point. The fact that women are AGAINST men’s rights is one of numerous reasons that mgtow continues. Why do I say this? Because women represent the majority of voters.

Look at Erin Pizzey. She created a woman’s shelter in the UK, wrote books and attempted to create the 1st Men’s shelter. She received death threats and had to flee for her safety after numerous incidents and threats to her life. Why? The moment she suggested domestic violence was a 2 way street and that the battered woman was a myth.... she had to be dealt with. She spoke to numerous women and wrote how in most cases, these women were violent themselves. These violent relationships were unhealthy and both were wrong. Yet too much money is made from the lie that ALL men are the enemy and ALL women must be believed.

MGTOW will continue to be a problem for you and women like you as men understand that women couldn’t care less about us when the time comes to step up and do something about these issues. If the choice is between the risk of having our wealth, careers, family/friends, freedom, and life destroyed, or going our own way... You better believe many men will choose to go it alone.

As a woman you pose too much of a risk... and often, women are completely oblivious to these things and will argue that they don’t happen or men should just deal with it.

dadudenines · 2021-03-07T18:34:26+00:00

MGTOW, TRP and the media smearing men in general is definitely having an effect. Bumble released a video of women defining commitment in an era of declining marriage rates see here..

A tsunami of single ladies is hitting their mid 30's and finding men likely left the marriage market 10 years ago...https://www.singularity2050.com/2010/01/the-misandry-bubble.html

idiot-prodigy · 2021-03-13T03:26:39+00:00

I am a 42 year old MGTOW man. The risks of modern marriage specifically fathering a child, are just not worth the reward. It's really that simple. The courts are too punitive to men during divorce, specifically in regards to alimony and child support. Children do not need two thousand dollars a month to survive, period. Women accustomed to a standard of living during marriage should NEVER be guaranteed that standard of living after divorce.

In my youth I was horrified of ending up like my cousin who was trapped by his wife in a failing marriage. She convinced him to father a child in order to repair their marriage. Once pregnant she divorced him and took him to the cleaners. He has lived in my aunt's basement ever since. He's 50 now and has never been in another relationship. He is a human ATM for his ex-wife to live in a two story house with their kid and her boyfriends.

Everyone knows someone living in a hovel so their ex-wife can live in a two story home with the kids, his dog, and her carousel of boyfriends.

For me MGTOW is specifically about being risk-averse. I don't invest in penny stocks. I don't bet on the Cincinnati Bengals. I don't entertain the idea of a modern marriage.

merabaid · 2021-03-05T22:27:12+00:00

I think they judge all women that way because it's been common for awhile now in many spaces for women to judge men by the worst men they've met (feminists).

They're just flipping the script. The shitty things toxic men do have been common knowledge for decades, the shitty things toxic women do are barely ever talked about and often excused so I think they're just trying to exact validation in many cases.

Still I don't think good men or good women are rare, I just think the wounded cry louder and the toxic get around more than the rest of us.

mr4kino · 2021-03-06T11:28:17+00:00

The problem, at least for Western countries and countries following the same law: A man is guilty until proven innocent, a woman is innocent until proven guilty. Cheating is protected by the laws thanks to the no-fault divorce, DNA tests are forbidden in some countries and even if proven not his kid he has to pay child support, False rape charges, etc etc etc. At this point, the woman can be perfect or horrible, it doesn't matter anymore: she can destroy ANY man legally speaking. Laws and people will be on her side by default. Even for NO REASON, she can say I'm out and she will take half of your money. And this high mathematical probability number is what makes the whole game rigged and not worth it.

So you can play the game but need to be prepared: camera at home, recording everything, prenup agreements (though in the US they are canceled = you must be crazy to get married there), hide your money, get a vasectomy without telling her (forget about kids then), whatever is needed to protect yourself. And even in this case, you can be in a very tough spot. So some men are motivated to spin plates (redpill), others don't bother anymore (mgtow). The ones who get married are usually:

- Guys that are completely disconnected from the reality of family courts- "Nice" guys. And usually, they are also hitting the first point.- Guys that are mentally evil (NPD etc, they want to control someone). And they're a lot of those thanks to the complete destruction of the nuclear family.

Also as you mentioned the following "Why men see only attractive party girls and think all women have same experiences and life history?", I will give you my experience and experience of lots of other friends I know: No, those were "tradcon" women, very good women on paper, SAHM just after finishing studies, wanting kids and taking care of the family, no nightclubs, no high N-count (some friends married Christian and Muslim women), young, no smoking, whatever. The end result is the same: the guy loses everything he built. Some got accused with rape charges, others child abuse (daughter abuse), other false terrorism accusations (For the Muslim. Not a joke, unfortunately, classical stunt here in the UK, and in the US, heard the same from French friends) and I can go on and on. Those guys are forced to be MGTOW. Now, most of those friends would have no problem marrying again. Contrary to the gaslighting on social media: They are not incels. But only on the condition of living in a country with "normal" human laws. Good luck with that nowadays.

xosomeblonde · 2021-03-05T20:14:01+00:00

No, it’s not a problem for us.
Good men don’t.

scamall15 · 2021-03-05T21:33:59+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Dasmendoo · 2021-03-08T08:10:51+00:00

I can't speak for my other MGTOW guys, but personally i no longer actively engage in conversations with women however when i do not have the choice of avoiding a discussion with women i treat them like any other guy i talk to, very casual with no hints of sexual intent, because i don't want to be fined again for rape accusations just because of a normal conversation.

In short, i don't ever view women with disgust and contempt, but rather i make any form of contact minimal as a means of self preservation.

Edit: i realized that i haven't answered the question at hand. For this community i do think it would be a problem if you happened to find a MGTOW guy who qualifies as a potential partner but does not bother interacting with any of the members. But worry not, we're just very few in numbers and the probability of meeting one of us in a public space would be slim to none.

GmanRaz · 2021-03-08T18:16:45+00:00

If you want a perfect example of where most MGTOW men come from read this. This isnt my story, but its a cookie cutter story for most MGTOW men.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MGTOW2/comments/m08174/my_mgtow_story/

scamall15 · 2021-03-05T20:06:28+00:00

No. Men who have that type of narrow understanding of women, relationship dynamics and human behavior is not someone a RP would want to be with. So think of it as trash throwing itself out. (Not to say those men are trash. Just an analogy.)
Not all men do this.

grahamcookiefart · 2021-03-06T13:39:05+00:00

Is it a problem for you? Well let's phrase it this way, are these options that you would want for yourself?

I respect the RP mindset, but at some point MGTOW and the AWALT principles are not part of any logical man's makeup. There are plenty of women who stay virgins till marriage for religious reasons for example, there are plenty of women who are attractive and non-hypergamous. Painting a gender with one brush even if the majority seems to match the color (which it doesn't, these people are just predominantly western, where sexual freedom exists) If you take larger populations into the equation like most countries in Northern Africa, Indonesia, the middle east etc, their whole theories would be a hell of a lot less valid.

Anyway.. back to my point. Do you want a logical man? Then MGTOWs and radical RPers are not a loss to you if they fall out of your options. There are plenty of traditional men out there who don't subscribe to these values. Just gotta meet em in the right place.

pearlsandstilettos · 2021-03-05T23:32:25+00:00

[permanently deleted]

arin1807 · 2021-03-06T18:15:46+00:00

[permanently deleted]

TranslatedSky · 2021-03-08T10:57:06+00:00

They’re just the vocal majority, not the actual majority. Men who do right by women have no cause to speak up, because they aren’t SJWs where everything has to be under the limelight. Just like how RPWs or aligning don’t speak up, but the “men are trash” women do.

DasXbird · 2021-03-06T01:36:07+00:00

Mgtow is a great example of the psychological concept of transference.

They might have suffered hurt/abuse at the hands or their mother or other women. Often cluster B women.

What is often common however both in Mgtow and radical feminism is that the people involved see themselves as the victim since they are completely unaware of the cause of their issue.

It is really painful to the ego to admit that we are partially responsible and are the creators of our own suffering. Especially when our identity is caught up in a victim narrative.

scamall15 · 2021-03-05T20:37:56+00:00

[permanently deleted]

WesternDoughnut · 2021-03-05T20:20:20+00:00

Men find those things when they are at the bottom, often dumped by the girl they loved, without really understanding why and it makes them angry. It's just a phase. Anyway, redpill men are not the captain material redpill women look for, so it shouldn't bother you, Just do your things.
I guess it's because that's the kind of girls they are used to?

You probably shouldn't read those things, it will just make you bitter, it's explained in the sidebar I think.

RP_Bear9 · 2021-03-06T18:42:55+00:00

[permanently deleted]

RP_Bear9 · 2021-03-06T03:34:02+00:00

There are some very insightful comments on this thread. I'll try to add something of value as well. The MGTOW trend reflects a more recent attitude among men towards women that can vary widely - and it means different things to different people. The underlying theme seems to be men who have basically given up trying to pursue women, and often harbor deep bitterness toward them. MGTOW is a problem for women to the extent that men's thoughts lean toward the MGTOW direction, and they are far less interested or willing to provide for women. Like with any thinking, many people will broad brush the subject saying 'all women are like that' so why even bother. (Similar to MGTOW, I would note the feminist have a similar all or nothing thinking - that men are bad, and they should refuse most men for non-rational reasons).

After studying the MGTOW concepts, I am of the opinion that these men's fears of women and the family justice system, laws and conventions are far overblown. While there are certainly are cases of incredible injustices toward men (false rape allegations, divorce rape of men, the media's portrayal of men), what is the real probability something this bad will happen to an individual man? The chances of falling victim to such things are actually very low, and this is what MGTOW misses. Life is not really that desperate. And some smart planning, organization to avoid problems, avoiding women with bad behavior can basically solve these problems for men.

The reality I have seen in my life is that there are a large portion women out there that would make good partners, and its frankly not incredibly difficult find them, but one key is the guy has to be attractive enough himself (in terms of income, personality, looks, etc..). If a man has the proper leadership skills, he can direct the relationship in a healthy, functional manner that is best for both man & woman. Throughout history, the more successful men end up with more women, such that there is usually a larger percentage of men in society (more so than women) who are less successful/attractive, and they must remain single.

Society, including the media (major media and social media) and societal views at present are scaring both men and women away from marriage and long-term relationships. Wealth and technology are other forces that make it somewhat less attractive or necessary for the sexes to be in long term relationships. The justice systems in western countries like the US are also contributing to lower marriage rates (and LTR) in a significant way. However, the reality is that men and women are both still great for each other and can bring much happiness to each others lives (often with children and often in a long term marriage). So - my message is that men, and women too, need to not be consumed with these fears, and be willing to take the risk that relationships entail in order to seek out and obtain the great rewards of those relationship. In today's society, marriage is probably less necessary than it used to be, yet the joys and pleasures of spending time with the opposite sex remain - but perhaps in a slightly less traditional forms in some cases.

To end with a cliche like the song - 'What the world needs now is love sweet love'.

Buckley92 · 2021-03-06T08:25:36+00:00

I have older male friends who have been burned by women, including one close older male friend from university. And one of my parents' friends who stayed with us for a month after he divorced. Some women do indeed suck. Some. My ex best friend was one of those women.

That being said men who go MGTOW are sexist, bitter and hateful.

I've been taken advantage of by guys and victimized. I still feel angry about it.

I haven't 'sworn off men forever' but still obsessively talk about how all menz just want sex, and how 'All men are like that', and how you should never get married because all men definitely cheat because,it's in their nature, etc etc etc.

If you want to stay single and do your own thing? Sounds fantastic! Do that! Do what is best for you! But stop obsessing over women and claiming you 'know our true nature' and 'are never having anything to do with women ever again' and AWALT.

It's cringey and painfully clear they're not sworn off anything. Going their way in a big circle.

Oh, and I know I'll get downvoted for this, but I had a very personal post that took a lot of guts to post in a Christian subreddit screenshotted and stolen and posted into the MGTOW subreddit without my consent. Numerous comments saying, 'Whore,' 'She's going to hell,' guessing (wrongly) my n count, saying I don't deserve an earthly husband because 'You're married to Jesus, sweetheart,' and one comment that even referred to Jesus as a betabux. Disgusting. Seeing those comments I just lost any shred of sympathy I may have had for them. They do it to themselves. And God helps those who help themselves.

Underground-anzac-99 · 2021-03-06T03:08:52+00:00

It’s their version of Female Dating Strategy, to a point. Except they’re giving up women while FDL is about not accepting poor behaviour to the point where it devolves into general male bashing. Read through the comments on both and some have been badly harmed, others are just bitter in general. Neither are healthy.

As an aside, I’ve always wondered how gay versions of the same thing work. Do lesbians who’ve been taken for a ride swear off women?

MGTOW and FDL can’t reconcile as both are convinced the other sides power rests in entitlement while THEY (men, women) are victims of a system that hates them en masse.

Title	Is MGTOW a problem for us and why men judge us all by the worst women they've met?
Author	scamall15
Upvotes	35
Comments	53
Date	March 5, 2021 8:00 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/lykie5/is_mgtow_a_problem_for_us_and_why_men_judge_us/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/is-mgtow-a-problem-for-us-and-why-men-judge-us-all.1191561 https://theredarchive.com/post/1191561

Comments