What do you think about this post on circumcision and FGM?

PrincessofPatriarchy · 2020-05-17T13:04:56+00:00

The worst forms of FGM are more severe than circumcision, yes. Removal of the clitoris does remove all or most sexual sensation for women. In some cases they do sew the vaginal opening mostly shut with the intent that it will only be "opened" by the future husband. This can cause problems urinating and menstruating and therefore infection and as the result of these complications sometimes death. And of course having your vaginal canal ripped open during sex would be incredibly painful and is not at all anatomically safe. In the most severe cases it has been reported that yes, they will use sharp rocks and stones as the cutting device for the clitoris.

Though the least invasive forms of FGM such as a ritual nick are less invasive than circumcisions are. They do not affect sexual stimulation. Feminists often like the compare the most severe forms of FGM to the least severe cases of circumcision. This ignores that some FGM such as ritual nicks causes little to no complication and some circumcisions are also done in unhygienic and barbaric ways. The idea that people are cutting off girl's clitoris's with rocks and meanwhile taking their boys to safe and sterile medical conditions to be circumcised is inaccurate to say the least. Boys die every year from circumcisions that are performed by tribes and communities using unhygienic practices and no anesthesia.

There are many different types of FGM ranging from horrifically barbaric to relatively minor.

Clitoridectomy involves removing part or all of the clitoris.

Excision involves removing all or part of the clitoris and the inner labia. Sometimes the labia majora as well.

Infibulation is when the vaginal canal is sealed shut by cutting and repositioning the labia.

Ritual nicks involve making a small incision that will heal. For religious and cultural purposes it "counts" as a female circumcision but does not alter anything anatomically.

Source https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/female-genital-mutilation-fgm/

Ritual Circumcision:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahzkTQTBrd8

I don't think it is intellectually honest for feminists to compare the worst of FGM to the best of circumcision. But this is why I wrote in a previous post that I don't think it is productive to compare male circumcision to female FGM.

Edit: It can remove all or most clitoral stimulation. Though many women who have been cut report their breasts as being the most sensitive portion of their body.

Moronic-Simpleton · 2020-05-17T14:47:59+00:00

When men start having their dicks cut off with dull shards of metal while being held on the ground in public with everyone watching as they scream in agony and beg for death, then you can compare the 2. Until then, sit down, we're not talking bout your dicks right now. Die mad about it.

Except that is happening:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/25/male-circumcision-ceremonies-death-deformity-africa

Moreover, the example she presented is not the case in ALL FGM cases. Some women are circumcised voluntarily.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/04/female-genital-mutilation-cutting-anthropologist/389640/

Can’t we just agree mutilating someone without their consent is fucking horrible no matter the gender?

EsraYmssik · 2020-05-17T17:10:54+00:00

When men start having their dicks cut off with dull shards of metal while being held on the ground in public

Odd factoid. EVERY country that circumcises girls, also cuts boys. Guess what, those boys get cut in the same shitty conditions as the girls do.

with everyone watching as they scream in agony and beg for death, then you can compare the 2.

Try and watch a circumcision training video and listen to the boys screaming.

And before you ask... NO! I am not going to link one because I haven't got the stomach to watch that again.

deja_ale · 2020-05-17T18:39:31+00:00

I am pretty certain every culture that cuts women also cuts men. In those scenarios it's not like the women are held down and cut with a dirty knife, and the men are taken to a first rate sanitized hospital. Comparing ritual female circumcision to medicalized male circumcision is not a fair comparison.

The only way to compare the two is medicalized male circumcision vs. medicalized female circumcision and ritual male circumcision vs. ritual female circumcision. When compared in this regard, there are many men being cut in a brutal manner, many of whom lose their penis or their life due to unsanitary conditions and practices.

The correct answer is to stop cutting anyones genitals regardless of gender without a legitimate medical reason (which is extremely rare).

Below are articles in regards to ritual circumcision of males which results in death or amputation, so anyone arguing male circumcision is not comparable or does not have risks is just completely uninformed.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-50838014

http://ulwaluko.co.za/Home.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/28/south-africa-circumcision

Keown14 · 2020-05-17T17:55:14+00:00

I’m truly shocked that feminists who are all about consent, do little more than roll their eyes at mentions of little boys being mutilated without their consent.

I have never heard any man tell anyone to stop talking about FGM, but that twox thread from earlier today was full of feminists trivializing any concern about MGM.

FGM is often much worse than MGM, but MGM is a lot more common & accepted.

thereslcjg2000 · 2020-05-17T14:54:14+00:00

I would listen to that argument if those people also got enraged when removing the clitoral hood and just nicking the female genitalia is equated with the most severe forms of FGM - as it often is, including in the official legal definition. But most of those people don't care about that. Thus, it's hard for me to believe those people are arguing in good faith.

rannerbeer · 2020-05-18T01:00:47+00:00

It's funny, since she talks about "clean scalpels and hygienic hospitals" without grasping the fact this is only possible because MGM is legal in the west. If we legalised FGM the procedure could take place in the same clean, hygienic environments too.

Jimmi-Jones- · 2020-05-17T13:10:16+00:00

I would say that the original op is a shit poster and not a rights advocate.

Strikester101 · 2020-05-17T12:50:53+00:00

/u/PrincessOfPatriarchy

You may want to see this.

WARNING: Rage fuel

patternofpi · 2020-05-17T12:49:19+00:00

I feel that it can be annoying when men take the spotlight in those cases. Then again, there is not that much talk about it so FGM conversations are often some of the only places where men can be heard a out their cilcumcision.

intactisnormal · 2020-05-18T00:19:57+00:00

I'm not interested in comparing the two, just know that the foreskin is the most sensitive part of the penis. (Full study.)

For more information Dr. Guest discusses the innervation of the foreskin, how the most sensitive part of the penis is removed by circumcision, the mechanical function of the foreskin and its role in lubrication during sex, and the possibility of decreased sexual pleasure for both male and partner.

As for the sterile and in a hospital, would FGM be acceptable if it was done in a sterile hospital setting? No.

And finally just to note, FGM is illegal in the West and universally condemned. Circumcision is not only legal, it's even pushed.

18Apollo18 · 2020-06-22T19:57:34+00:00

These are the types of Female Genital Mutilation according to the World Heath Organization. All of them are illegal in the US.

Type I. Partial or total removal of the clitoral glans (the external and visible part of the clitoris, which is a sensitive part of the female genitals, with the function of providing sexual pleasure to the woman), and/or the prepuce/clitoral hood (the fold of skin surrounding the clitoral glans). When it is important to distinguish between the major variations of Type I FGM, the following subdivisions are used:

Type Ia. Removal of the prepuce/clitoral hood only.

Type Ib. Removal of the clitoral glans with the prepuce/clitoral hood.

Type II. Partial or total removal of the clitoral glans and the labia minora (the inner folds of the vulva), with or without removal of the labia majora (the outer folds of skin of the vulva). When it is important to distinguish between the major variations of Type II FGM, the following subdivisions are used:

Type IIa. Removal of the labia minora only.

Type IIb. Partial or total removal of the clitoral glans and the labia minora (prepuce/clitoral hood may be affected).

Type IIc. Partial or total removal of the clitoral glans, the labia minora and the labia majora (prepuce/clitoral hood may be affected).

Type III. (Often referred to as infibulation). Narrowing of the vaginal opening with the creation of a covering seal. The seal is formed by cutting and repositioning the labia minora, or labia majora. The covering of the vaginal opening is done with or without removal of the clitoral prepuce/clitoral hood and glans (Type I FGM). When it is important to distinguish between variations of Type III FGM, the following subdivisions are used:

Type IIIa. Removal and repositioning of the labia minora.

Type IIIb. Removal and repositioning of the labia majora.

Type IV. All other harmful procedures to the female genitalia for non-medical purposes, for example pricking, piercing, incising, scraping and cauterization.

Male Circumcision is just as damaging or more damaging than all these

The glans penis (head) is not a sexual erogenous zone. It only has pain, pressure and temperature nerves. It does not contain fine touch tactile nerve. The foreskin, frenulum and ridged band like the ciltoris and labia do contain fine touch receptors.

Male circumcision is extremely severe removing the 3 most sensitive parts of the penis and 1/2 of penile tissue. It is linked to frequently orgasm difficulties in men and pain and discomfort in their female partners l. It can also causes the meatus to shrink which at worst can making urination difficult and painful and at minimum cause weak urine stream and longer time to empty the bladder.

The foreskin, frenulum, and ridged band are the 3 most sensitive parts of the penis and all contains fine touch receptors such as Meissner's corpuscles, Epidermal Merkel nerve endings and Pacinian corpuscles. The glans penis does not and it's not a primary erogenous zone. It's made to sense the foreskin gliding across it but that's it.

The foreskin provides gliding action reducing friction and the need for lubrication. It's also provide plesure to not only the man and but also his partner.

The transitional region from the external to the internal prepuce is the most sensitive region of the uncircumcised penis and more sensitive than the most sensitive region of the circumcised penis.The most sensitive location on the circumcised penis is the circumcision scar on the ventral surface. Five locations on the uncircumcised penis that are routinely removed at circumcision were more sensitive than the most sensitive location on the circumcised penis. Circumcision ablates the most sensitive parts of the penis.

The glans penis is primarily innervated by free nerve endings and has primarily protopathic sensitivity. Protopathic sensitivity refers to cruder, poorly localized feelings (including pain, some temperature sensations and certain perceptions of mechanical contact). In the glans penis, encapsulated end-organs are sparse, and found mainly along the glans corona and the frenulum. The only portion of the body with less fine-touch discrimination than the glans penis is the heel of the foot. In contrast, the male prepuce ridged band at the mucocutaneous junction has a high concentration of encapsulated receptors. The innervation difference between the protopathic sensitivity of the glans penis and the corpuscular receptor-rich ridged band of the prepuce is part of the normal complement of penile erogenous tissue. In females, the glans clitoris and the inner plate of the prepuce have corpuscular receptors on their oppositional surfaces. Merkel cells mediate tactile sensations, and are found in glabrous skin ; they have been reported in the clitoris and can be identified in the male prepuce.

Circumcision ablates the most sensitive parts of the penis.

Circumcision vs Intact sensitivity diagram (NSFW)

Free nerve endings, Meissner's corpuscles and Pacinian corpuscles are present in the human male foreskin and exhibit characteristic staining patterns.

Epidermal Merkel nerve endings, Meissner corpuscles, and other types of mechanoreceptors typically found in primate glabrous skin (lip or digit) are not present in the glans penis

The mean length of prepuce in this sample was 6.4 cm (range 4.8-9.2) and covered 93% of the mean penile shaft (6.9 cm). Ten prepuces were as long as or longer than the shaft of the penis to which they belonged; three of them were > 10% longer than the shaft and glans combined. 51% of the length of the mean adult penile shaft, or more from nearly half the penises. CONCLUSION: CIRCUMCISION REMOVES MORE THAN HALF OF TOTAL PENILE SKIN

In conclusion, circumcision removes the most sensitive parts of the penis and decreases the fine‐touch pressure sensitivity of glans penis. The most sensitive regions in the uncircumcised penis are those parts ablated by circumcision. When compared to the most sensitive area of the circumcised penis, several locations on the uncircumcised penis (the rim of the preputial orifice, dorsal and ventral, the frenulum near the ridged band, and the frenulum at the muco‐cutaneous junction) that are missing from the circumcised penis were significantly more sensitive.

Circumcision was associated with frequent orgasm difficulties in Danish men and with a range of frequent sexual difficulties in their female partners, notably orgasm difficulties, dyspareunia and a sense of incomplete sexual needs fulfilment.

During intercourse the loose skin of the intact penis slides up and down the shaft of the penis, stimulating the glans and the sensitive erogenous receptors of the foreskin itself. On the outstroke the glans is partially or completely engulfed by the foreskin. This is known as the `gliding mechanism.' The gliding mechanism is Nature's intended mechanism of intercourse. As such, it contributes greatly to sexual pleasure. Also, since more of the loose skin of the penis remains inside the vagina, the woman's natural lubrication is not drawn out to evaporate to a great extent, which makes sex easier without using artificial lubricants.The prepuce is a highly innervated and vascularized genital structure. It is entirely lined with the peripenic muscle sheet. Specialized ecoptic sebaceous glans on the inner preputial surface produce natural emollients and lubricants necessary for normal sexual function. The primary orgasmic triggers are found in the preputial orifice and frenulum. When unfolded, the prepuce is large enough to cover the length and circumference of the erect penis and acts as a natural sheath through which the shaft glides during coitus. Only the presence and functions of the prepuce allow for physiologically normal coitus to occur as designed by nature.

The analysis sample consisted of 1059 uncircumcised and 310 circumcised men. For the glans penis, circumcised men reported decreased sexual pleasure and lower orgasm intensity. They also stated more effort was required to achieve orgasm, and a higher percentage of them experienced unusual sensations (burning, prickling, itching, or tingling and numbness of the glans penis).For the penile shaft a higher percentage of circumcised men described discomfort and pain, numbness and unusual sensations.In comparison to men circumcised before puberty, men circumcised during adolescence or later indicated less sexual pleasure at the glans penis, and a higher percentage of them reported discomfort or pain and unusual sensations at the penile shaft.

Circumcision removes the natural protection against meatal stenosis and, possibly, other USDs as well.

In meatal stenosis the meatus, or opening at the tip of the penis, becomes narrower. Meatal stenosis is almost exclusively found in males who have been circumcised. Symptoms include the following: Pain or burning while urinating, Sudden urges to urinate, Having to urinate often, A small, narrow, very fast urinary stream, A urinary flow that sprays (usually upward) or is difficult to aim, Trouble with fully emptying the bladder, A drop of blood at the tip of the penis after urinating

needletothebar · 2020-05-18T06:45:29+00:00

i think the only difference between the two is the gender of the victim. any other perceived differences are in the cultural biases of the observer. circumcision is nothing but a euphemism for genital mutilation.

Title	What do you think about this post on circumcision and FGM?
Author	Strikester101
Upvotes	12
Comments	53
Date	May 17, 2020 12:46 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/gletmc/what_do_you_think_about_this_post_on_circumcision/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/what-do-you-think-about-this-post-on-circumcision.1198201 https://theredarchive.com/post/1198201

Comments

These are the types of Female Genital Mutilation according to the World Heath Organization. All of them are illegal in the US.

Male Circumcision is just as damaging or more damaging than all these