W*men rate 80% of men as below average, but lose their minds when given accurate ratings of their own faces

mewbestpokeman · 2023-07-01T12:29:37+00:00

JFL you can't make this sh*t up. When you're used to tutorial mode, facing reality can be challenging. Maybe it's time for these people...

[–]Apprehensive_Net7337 27 points28 points29 points 3 years ago (33 children) | Copy Link

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[–]EugeneCezanne -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

They aren't.

I have two arguments in support the affirmative. The first is evolutionary biology. For a very long time across a variety of civilizations, women have been selected for breeding based on their beauty; men were selected based on their ability to provide (please take for granted that these are not absolutes, but matters of tendencies, nuances and degrees). Ergo, genetic traits which present most attractively in women are more likely to be passed down to the next generation of women and men. These traits are not necessarily attractive when expressed in men. Insofar as looks are objective, over a large population and a long period of time, you would expect this to yield a population in which women are somewhat more attractive.

The second is subjective: when we ask people to rate people, women score higher from men. Women also score higher from other women. insofar as looks are subjective, the unspoken consensus already appears to be that women are more attractive.

[–]FlyV89 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Lionesses are subjected to the same evolutionary selection than women, I believe they are WAY more important for lions than lions are important to lionesses.

In the peacock specie, it's the male, not female, the one who has beautiful multi-colored feathers. The female is actually quite ugly, and has brown-grey feathers, it's smaller and has a curved neck. You know why?

Because when predators attack, the male peacock spreads his coloured feathers and try to dissuade the predator making him look bigger and threatening. Even when his tactics fail, a predator is more likely to go after a pray that has colourful feathers and looks "bigger" because all these sexual dimorphic traits signal good, healthy, abundant food.

Lions care more about lionesses than the other way around, so for the lion gaze, the female of the specie is more beautiful.

Same for male peacocks.

Same for bulls and cows, or big and small birds of all kinds, bears, parrots, some species of fish, etc.

But what drom an objective point of view who understands the concept of beauty, and can judge beauty without it being jeopardized by our sexual drive?

When you go to the zoo..

You want to see lionesses? Or do you want to see a big, terrifying, majestic lion with his big mane, powerful chest and arms and intimidating tooth and claws?

You prefer to look at the male peacock or the female peacock?

Which one looks more "beautiful" to you? A cow, or a strong, powerfull, muscled bull?

When you look at the musculature and lines of an argentinian dogo, a belgium shepperd or a grand danish... Which ones have the most amazing and mesmerizing body? The males or the females?

From an strictly rational point of view, men are more beautiful than women.

From a human point of view thou, women are the most beautiful individuals of all individuals on Earth, because men are the dominant specie of this planet, and men think women are more beautiful, then they are more beautiful.

It's the same thing with women across the races, I mean.

The dominant race of mankind has been, more or less for the past 1000 years, the white race, and women of all races are not that much wrong for pointing this out as the source of white women being praized and fetishized all over the world.

But if tomorrow, for some weird reasson, black women became "white men's women" all over the world, and white men started chasing black women like the plague, because of a matter of cultural domination, black women would become the new female standar of beauty around the world.

[–]Apprehensive_Net7337 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

If you want to talk about biology, men reproduced at vastly lower rates than women did as a species. In other words, women were always hypergamous as long as they choice. Prior to choice (for cavemen) the biggest, strongest cavemen got to reproduce.

So, our earliest ancestors are at hyper levels of masculinity, and then when women choose partners, they still choose for power which typically begets masculine features. However when people talk about beauty, for men specifically, they never refer to hyper masculine as attractive. It's always heavily masculine with some very minor feminine features. However for women, masculine features are completely unwanted.

I refer to this as an attack on masculinity or just socially accepted gynocentrism. Where 100% femininity is wanted in women but 100% masculinity is not wanted in men, even though masculine traits are attractive and dimorphism is attractive to women. Women even try coining the term "ugly hot" for guys who are hyper-masc because they don't want to seem like they're attracted to hyper-masculinity even though they are.

Men are also dimorphic at higher rates than women, men have higher variance in height & skeletal structures, whereas women have lower ranges and even globally tend to be around the same size. Remember, dimorphism is attractive across all animal species.

[–]EugeneCezanne -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

If you want to talk about biology, men reproduced at vastly lower rates than women did as a species. In other words, women were always hypergamous as long as they choice.

That's not necessarily what this means. Another explanation is that men were more likely to die while their women were still of childbearing age, which maybor may not be true given that men fought wars and had more physically strenuous or dangerous jobs. If a wife in that situation wanted to continue to care for her family, she would have to remarry and likely bear future children.

Another possible explanation, that seems quite likely, is that men sired children and ran. Again, this puts the woman in a situation where they need to find another partner.

and then when women choose partners, they still choose for power which typically begets masculine features.

The ability to earn money has more to do with intelligence, upbringing and family related social status than a strong jawline.

However when people talk about beauty, for men specifically, they never refer to hyper masculine as attractive. It's always heavily masculine with some very minor feminine features. However for women, masculine features are completely unwanted.

If feminine features are valued in both men and women, it supports the claim that women are better looking. Because only some feminine features are attractive on men, while they are all attractive on women.

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[–]FlyV89 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

While imagining herself as an "alien" once, Esther Vilar figured out what, according to her, was a really hard realization to come to terms with, and this was the fact that if some visitors of a more evolved, inteligent civilization from a distant galaxy visited our planet one day and had to take with them one individual that showed the greatest characteristics of a living "earthling", they would leave the Earth with a man, without question.

And it made absolute sense for her, since men were not only stronger, faster, more athletic and well built than women, but also were, by the time she wrote these lines, the only gender of the only specie that had walked the Moon (not sure if men are still, but I think women have made it only so far as going to space).

The hipersexualization of women comes from the fact that men have higher sexual drives.

In fact, in most species of animals, the males are clearly more "good looking".

It's not clear cut for the majority of species, still when sexual dimorphism IS there, but we can actually make a whole separate case for some species of birds like parrots, peacocks and chickens, snakes, wolves, lions, and even some fishes and sea mamals.

For Esther Vilar, men were not only more beautiful than women, they were just overall better, to the point if men could reproduce without the need of women, we wouldn't even consider them from the same specie. Men embodied to her the epithome of all living forms on Earth, in all senses.

And from a logic point of view, I can somewhat agree with Esther Vilar.

From a practical point of view... I'm a dude I mean...

Women are way way hotter man.

[–]EugeneCezanne -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

And it made absolute sense for her, since men were not only stronger, faster, more athletic and well built than women, but also were, by the time she wrote these lines, the only gender of the only specie that had walked the Moon

It's a fun little thought experiment, but I can't say she's doing it very well. I mean, why would any of these characteristics be of particular interest to an alien? They are only of interest to humans, and only some humans some of the time.

Like, if I walk into an animal shelter, I don't say "Bring me the biggest, strongest cat you have!" I pick the one I think is cute, or with the fewest expensive health problems, or who gets along best with other animals. The cat cannot begin to comprehend my reasons for choosing it.

in most species of animals, the males are clearly more "good looking".

I'm not sure I want to know more about what you mean...

[–]FlyV89 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Like, if I walk into an animal shelter, I don't say "Bring me the biggest, strongest cat you have!" I pick the one I think is cute, or with the fewest expensive health problems, or who gets along best with other animals.

For a pet, absolutely, those characteristics make up for a good domestic friend.

But when looking at nature with wonder eyes, what makes beasts so beautiful is power, strenght, agility. That's what make them so terrifying and amazing at the same time.

But if you want to talk about, somewhat, domestic animals, we can talk about horses. I'm a big fan of horses actually, I love to ride those powerful beasts, and I actually own a couple, a mare and a stallion.

The mare, "Clara", I bought her for my ex-fiancee a decade ago, she's a stocky and brave girl, of cow-like skin, brown, white and black, she has quite short legs for her size, and a round body, a beautiful lady indeed, I enjoy a lot her company really.

The stallion is a whole different thing. He is 15 years old, his name is "Zaino" (his name comes from the colour of his coat, a very rare, very black hair that taints blue depending on the light). He comes from the argentinian race of giant horses, the "Purasangres" (Purebloods). An absolute beast, a giant, wide chest, powerfull long legs, long blue-black crines manes and tail... Such strenght, power and raw speed, it makes you shake in panic as soon as you see him come towards you, and when you get on top of him... Oh my God...

I love both of them, I love them dearly, they are great animals.

But there is certainly no comparison between them when it comes to take a ride.

Zaino is a force of nature. And objetively speaking, that does not make him only more beautiful, but also unique.

Not a single person that visited my house on the country said ever looked at Clara and said "hey, look, a horse!". There are thousands of horses in the proximities, Clara is just one among many.

When people see Zaino running, they just stare at him, and after a while they invariably say

"What a beautiful animal"

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While of course there is a subjective aspect of beauty, there's also an objective aspect. The subjective aspect, however, is possibly not even 50%.

But where do they come up with the "not even 50%" figure? They listed no equation or real way of determining any of this.

Why do you think there is always general agreement on which celebrities are attractive and which are not? Or people in real life? In school, for example, there were always the pretty girls or good-looking guys and then the not-so-good-looking ones. Sure, there’s some personal preference involved, but if beauty was purely subjective, there would be an equal number of people who think, for example, that Danny Devito was as good-looking as Brad Pitt.

They use such an extreme example that includes a midget (which makes him an outlier medically speaking). Outside of celebrities who have a halo of being famous and pushed on the masses, there is much less general agreement. If everyone mostly agreed, I wouldn't get feedback that ranges from ugly to very good looking.

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Title	W*men rate 80% of men as below average, but lose their minds when given accurate ratings of their own faces
Author	mewbestpokeman
Upvotes	62
Comments	105
Date	July 1, 2023 12:29 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/AllPillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/AllPillDebate/comments/14ntxwg/wmen_rate_80_of_men_as_below_average_but_lose/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/AllPillDebate/wmen-rate-80-of-men-as-below-average-but-lose.1223927 https://theredarchive.com/post/1223927

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