Do you think there is "good" radicalisation?

Current_Finding_4066 · 2023-08-10T12:48:18+00:00

I am not sure that is the underlying reason. They have done studies and people simply feel more indifferent to the plight of men. Even if you use the same language as feminists do, you will not garner the same response.

I think in some way people also can get radicalized because of the lack of care they encounter.

Digger_is_taken · 2023-08-10T14:08:54+00:00

As the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles taught me, sometimes it's cool to be totally radical, dude.

The technical definition of the word is "relating to or affecting the fundamental nature of something; far-reaching or thorough."

In the political sense, the word means "advocating or based on thorough or complete political or social change; representing or supporting an extreme or progressive section of a political party."

A "reactionary" is someone who wants to undo change. Traditionalist MRAs are reactionaries. The Left is usually associated with radicals while the Right is usually associated with reactionaries. Traditionalist MRAs who want trad wives are reactionaries. Egalitarian MRAs who want domestic violence services for men are radicals. It is difficult for the two camps to share a movement because they are moving in different directions.

Radicals and reactionaries can be good, bad, or neutral, depending on what sort of change they are addressing. Centrists like liberals and conservatives don't like any fundamental change because they are comfortable the way things are and don't want any change. They don't want anyone to rock the boat.

Fuzzy_Department2799 · 2023-08-10T12:50:54+00:00

Radicalization just leads to loud mouths sucking up all the oxygen and making everyone look bad. Usually while making themselves rich in the process. Does matter if they are left right or center.

phoenician_anarchist · 2023-08-10T12:38:49+00:00

Gynocentrism, gamma bias, etc.

People just care about women more so the appeal to emotion is far more effective. I can't tell you how many people only really started caring about men's issues after they (or someone close to them) were impacted.

Clockw0rk · 2023-08-10T18:41:48+00:00

I'm sure all "radicals" consider their cause good, no matter how history remembers them.

I disagree with your opinion that it's a failure of rhetoric to grip people to our cause though. A lot of what we deal with is indoctrination from societal norms that have evolved more recently under a decidedly gynocentric direction. This issue isn't that we're failing to appeal to people's emotions, it's that we're fighting against the level of deep rooted beliefs that are on par with other political subjects and concepts of religion.

Feminists have fed young people a revisionist view of history for a few generations now, and the repercussions from that are complex and numerous. Many young women, even those who don't consider themselves "feminists", earnestly believe that women were subjugated and subjected to men's sexual whims as rape slaves since the dawn of time up until the 20th century. It's complete and total horseshit, but it's on par with a bible creation story. It becomes woven into their identity, and protected by societal norms that says people are allowed to believe whatever they want to believe.

As a result, many woman end up unironically afraid of men or outright hating them due to their limited experience and exposure to positive role models.

It's very clear that the message of feminism has shifted from "we want equality" to "we don't need you". Once outer fringe sentiments like "the future is female" is now unironically on t-shirts and phone cases.

Radicals are marvelous in their passion, but critical thinking? Less so.

IMO, it all boils down to an education problem. Men don't know how abused they really are. Society's entertainment industry was largely built to dull the pain and quiet the demons of working 80 hour weeks before unions existed, and those working the hardest and deadliest jobs have always been the male 18-34 bracket, the front lines of war and industry. From liquor to porn to sports to video games, that's where young men spend their wealth and free time. There's no time left over for personal enrichment, self reflection, and higher education.

And when I say "higher education" I don't just mean college. Higher education is anything you do above and beyond public school to further yourself as an intellectual human being. And understanding your rights as a person is one of those things we simply aren't taught in public school. IMO, we leave far too much of our civic rights and troublesome statistics out of public school. The system should be designed so kids have the best possible shot at living a competent adult life, and it simply does not do that. Too much is left up to parents who no longer have time to raise their children and make ends meet.

"The problem with men" is a larger foundational problem with modern societal as a whole, and until a large portion of the population wakes up and realizes what's really going on to virtually everyone, significant dramatic changes will not be made.

It's like global warming, but worse, because it took decades of climate scientists to convince a small majority of the population that it was even happening despite hard data. The best measures we have for behavioral trends and societal norms are measured though sociology and psychology, two fields of study which have been riddled with pop figures spewing misinformation and studies which often fail to meet reproducibility standards.

And we can all see how well our leadership handled climate change.

Like I said, it's a belief system. The notion that men are oppressed flies in the face of all the freedom, liberty, and american dream that people have been force fed since kindergarten. Especially now that the "evil white male" trope is in full swing in the media, Somehow "rich" got removed from the equation and everyone magically forgot that rich people have the most power and suffer fewer consequences than anyone else in society.

Almost like it was orchestrated.

TisIChenoir · 2023-08-10T18:49:56+00:00

I don't use oppression, because the backlash you get is really something.

See, us men are the oppressors (white cishet men are the worst offenders). So, claiming anything we face is oppression is seen as an insult, like we're insulting the "real oppressed" by comparing our struggle to theirs.

Other times, it's met with "well, men made society for men's sake, so you can't be oppressed". (And, from experience, if you respond that patriarchy is not "by men, for men" you'll get the classical answer, "nobody said that, you misunderstand what we're talking about, nowhere have I said that men created society and that their issues is their own fault" despite literally the post before, they were saying exactly that.

But hey, let's not discuss the priviledge of defining oppression so it fits you and no one else...

ProfessionalPut6507 · 2023-08-10T12:29:48+00:00

No. Any sort of radicalization implies the lack of objectivity and balance.

ChrongrariusWimble · 2023-08-10T14:19:15+00:00

Nah, I think most men are aware of the injustices they face. Most choose to keep their head down.

KatsutamiNanamoto · 2023-08-10T20:16:31+00:00

Part of the problem is not understanding the language. Being "radical" doesn't mean being extremist or fanatic; it means to strive for fundamental transformations of the social structure, to designate problems through the designation of its root. I don't see how this can be bad.

BloomingBrains · 2023-08-10T22:00:50+00:00

Correct me if I'm wrong, but by radicalization do you just mean adopting grievance/identity politics language? Your comments seem to imply as much but those are not the same thing.

amakusa360 · 2023-08-11T18:20:18+00:00

It's not as bad as the increasingly coddled radicalization of the other side. It's a direct response.

CatChairmanMeow · 2023-08-11T21:40:16+00:00

I always think of things like this like food - as it is essentially food for your brain - everything in moderation and part of a healthy, balanced diet. It's fine (and probably healthy) in small or medium amounts, but don't let it be the only thing your brain eats or you're not going to have a good time. You need to feed your brain other stuff, whether that's working on a project or hobby or reading some fiction or going out for walks, etc., whatever floats your goat.

ConfusedAsHecc · 2023-08-12T00:09:52+00:00

no. radicalization is rarely a good thing

azazelcrowley · 2023-08-11T12:37:27+00:00

Franz Fanon, a French Psychologist sent out to figure our why the Algerians were rebelling and what was mentally wrong with them, eventually concluded that violence against colonial authorities was the only sane reaction to their situation.

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