Really good (albeit decade old) article I found for men worried about their sexuality being seen as inherently predatory.

Karmaze · 2023-11-05T14:28:48+00:00

The Good Men Project has a history of being really bad, because it does largely come from that whole oppressor/oppressed dichotomy PoV, and that is one that largely is healthy for nobody to be honest.

I don't think the piece is terrible, and has some redeeming qualities, for example, acknowledging that bad behavior is done by a small minority of men. But I think it needs to go further.

I am assuming that none of you would do what happened in Stubenville, but would you have helped stop it?

There is absolutely nothing I could potentially do to help stop it. Full stop end of story. I'd actually go as far as to say that you do not want my help, that it would be actually counter-productive. Now, I don't think the Steubenville story is actually about masculinity. I think it's about the role of status in our society (like most other things), and generally, that's not something that people as individuals has any role to effect, and it's somewhat of a third rail to actually challenge.

On a personal individual level, again, I do think that for reasons most men I talk to, I do think the bad behavior is very much silo'd in terms of social influence. Truth is, the people whom I know have or might have acted in a bad fashion, I have zero, maybe negative social influence over. This is why I say you do not want my help. You want me to keep my mouth shut and leave the topic alone.

Ask women what they want, and listen to what they tell you.

Different women want different things. And even just asking women what they want could be seen as something unwanted. This is the big problem. It's not a one size fits all take. Now, I think the advice is good in the context of an existing relationship, but it's simply impractical when trying to start one.

Let us in, don’t lure us in

To be blunt. Who we are is rarely ever good enough. That's the big problem. Again, this is bad advice. Are all the women who say that yes, men have to put in tons of effort and airs to be attractive to them wrong? Personally, I'd love to see some sort of social pushback against that stuff. But I doubt it's ever going to happen. I feel like this is better advice aimed towards women, TBH. In the way of, find someone who is just being themselves, be wary of men who are putting on airs. I.E. how to make a world where this actually IS good advice for men.

And the second part of that...is trust that you are worthy. Again, this is something to send to the world. Could we get pushback on the misandrist memes please? On the whole Patriarchy/Male Privilege/Toxic Masculinity stuff? You know, some sideeye at that stuff? Some "that's not cool", some knock off the bigotry? Again, it's not that I think the advice is wrong per se. Just that it's very difficult for a lot of people to do given the pressures that exist in the world.

Langland88 · 2023-11-05T14:59:06+00:00

The article feels like it was making a good point to not demonize men but then it caught itself and decided to throw in some Feminist rhetoric. It felt like the author had some independent thoughts that went against the Feminist narrative but she had to fall back in line to not get ostracized. For example this piece of the article kind of made me feel like no longer reading the rest of the article.

So, how can we all work together to change our collective impression of male sexuality as something that is dangerous and disgusting? Besides the obvious—understanding male privilege, dismantling of patriarchal mythology and ending rape culture?

I knew from there that this was going to go back into the same old Feminist rhetoric and it was going to be lecture on men being "good allies" like what many articles from the Good Men Project tend to be. I don't know what the goal of The Good Men Project is nowadays but I feel like it was meant to be place for educating men on how to obviously not be bad men or the kind of men that get reported on in news media for crimes against women. However, it seems like the majority of the articles are written by women, specifically Feminist women, and articles written by any men are the kind of men who tend to be the soy boy simp types.

untamed-italian · 2023-11-05T18:55:09+00:00

I liked a lot of what the article had to say up until the fucking LIST...

The whole article had great points about how the way society views men's sexuality is not only fully fucked up and damaging... it is also completely beyond men's ability to control it because our demonization is an active process carried out by people who are not us.

So what solutions does the article propose?

Why, it is a bunch of shit hetero cis men already do but doesn't fucking change a damn thing because it doesn't change the specific behaviors from the specific people causing the problem!

"So, how can we all work together to change our collective impression of male sexuality as something that is dangerous and disgusting?"

(YOU, ie MEN): Be an ally. Help us stop the violence against women!

You first ladies! I spent my first decade of adulthood doing this only to find the specific women I was working with were mocking my sexuality in their group chat.

Notice how stopping the violence against women does not connect AT ALL to stopping the demonization of men. They are entirely distinct causes!

Even the fucking advice itself is CREEPY AS FUCK.

"From a personal perspective, when we feel safe, we let our guards down,"

YOU WERE JUST MAKING INCREDIBLY OBSERVANT POINTS ABOUT HOW ALL HETEROSEXUAL SEX IS FRAMED AS MEN PURSUING WOMEN OUT OF PREDATORY DESIRE, and here you are DOING THE SAME THING YOU JUST WROTE IS WRONG!

Naked fucking hypocrisy, thank you GoodMenProject for what you do best!

(YOU, ie MEN): Ask women what they want, and listen to what they tell you.

Been doing this all my life, and just by putting this demand on this list I can see it did absolutely fucking NOTHING to move the needle.

In fact putting it on the list is demonizing men by implying we don't ask and don't listen as a whole class! Fuck this author!

Let us in, don’t lure us in

How about a counter-offer: fuck off. If you cannot be bothered to take the initiative to stop demonizing half the population then you are not worth my time and energy and I don't give a fuck about forming any relationship with you.

I am SOOO fucking done with women who put all the responsibility for making relationships on us. If it is so goddamm important they can take some initiative and accept some risk of rejection for once in their pampered diva lives.

Don’t take it personally

I will respect the advice women give on rejection the moment they start taking on the risk of rejection. If it is so easy to not take personally then why do women structure their entire fucking lives around avoiding any risk of ever experiencing it themselves? Hypocrites and cowards.

And lastly, know that your body is beautiful.

And all 5 items on the list are ALL things MEN have to do which in no way connect to how everyone else chooses to see, think about, and talk about us.

Even the "you should be proud of your body" list item makes sure to remind you that men send too many dick pics! She cannot even get through ONE item on her list without demonizing us.

Thanks for the post OP. I forgot how good the GoodMenProject is at DARVO. This is S-tier material.

Motanul_Negru · 2023-11-05T14:59:31+00:00

This isn't a really good article, its conclusions are the still-standard feminist "do better" drivel.

OppositeBeautiful601 · 2023-11-05T20:08:47+00:00

I liked the beginning of the article. She explained how we are educated into the predator/prey dichotomy with sex, and how damaging and wrong it is.

Then she asks a question:

So, how can we all work together to change our collective impression of male sexuality as something that is dangerous and disgusting?

Then she answers the question by telling men how to avoid unfairly being considered a predator. Why doesn't she address women and explain how they can avoid unfairly treating men like predators?

Johntoreno · 2023-11-05T20:23:27+00:00

In asking, however, she wasn’t pointing at men and suggesting they are douchebags

The title reads "Can Men Write About Sex Without Sounding Like Douchebags?" That's literally what the title is suggesting. And why do you value a Woman's opinion on Men's issues more than Men's own words? This so called "Rape Culture" is a concept that is founded on demonization of Male Sexuality.

From the get-go, we are teaching our kids to fear male sexuality, and to repress female sexuality.

There you go again with trying to make Women the victims of Men's issues. Women being taught to demonize male sexuality is not "repressing" female sexuality. I fail to see how men making plans to get sex from Women or being pushy is "predatory". Sure, its in poor taste&inappropriate but its a leap to call it predatory. A 30 YO grooming a 15 YO is predatory, not a guy trying to use lame pick up lines. Also, no one has ever said "boys will be boys" when men did criminal acts.

From a societal perspective, we need your help.

Hmm... if mario saving princess is a misogynistic narrative, then why should i emulate such misogynistic behavior and deny brave women their agency? No, strong women can do anything, women don't need no men, isn't that gloria said?

Ask women what they want, and listen to what they tell you.

You're talking under the assumption that the onus always on the men to do the leg work and break the ice. Who made these rules and why should i follow them? Make Up is a "trick" too and so are push up bras and cosmetic surgeries. Women are allowed to trick men by using augmented beauty but we can't augment our personalities?

Most of us straight chicks really like your bodies.

I know that women universally like the body of Chris Hemsworth, the problem is that the average man doesn't look like that.

TisIChenoir · 2023-11-05T15:58:29+00:00

I remember reading it a while back, thanks for reminding me.

Though she does drop the ball on the dancefloor when it comes to the conclusion and the advice. Summed up, it's "what can men do for us women, and how can they not be so demony".

You know, it made me think of something I realized recently while listening to an expert of islam on french radio (what with the law against the abaya in french schools).

Islam. More precisely, women's clothing. Hijab, burqa, abaya, etc.. thise pieces of clothing are more or less imposed upon women. It's obviously a very misogynistic practice to force women to wear.

But everytime it's discussed, people will either defend the right of muslim women to wear it (which is right), or say that they should not have to wear it, and muslim men should be able to control their impulses.

And it's EXACTLY that.

The whole idea behind hiding clothing for women in islam, is that it hold the principle that men are unable to control their sexual impulses. Men are uncontrolable beasts, and women should be covered as to not trigger the male predatory sexuality.

It's misogynistic, but it's also deeply misandrist. It's the endpoiny of the idea that male sexuality is by defaut predatory.

And the worst thing is, if you tell men since birth that their sexuality is predatory, that they are beast, they will end up acting like beast. Which us a self-fulfilling prophecy. We tell boys they are inherently sexual predators. They grow up believing it is how it is, and they can only be beasts. They end up acting bad because they don't know how to do otherwise.

And then society can say "see? We told you men are bad"

LeadingAd8949 · 2023-11-06T05:56:42+00:00

I truly feel sorry for guys these days. Idk if it makes anyone feel better but there are still a lot of girls that are not like this. The internet and certain spaces make it seem like that and it sucks. Not trying to be a pickme or anything. There’s still a lot of women that love men; and believe it or not it’s the majority. I’m sorry your feeling depressed:/ Environment is definitely a huge factor. I stopped hanging out in lefttype spaces a long time ago for many reasons. All that men hating bullshit is really not a majority view in the world. Try to cheer up buddy. I mostly skimmed your post nor did I read the article so sorry if I mentioned something irrelevant but I get where ur coming from

Nobleone11 · 2023-11-06T22:36:03+00:00

The Good Men Project started off with genuinely altruistic intentions from its original founder. He wanted to feature stories that highlighted the perspectives of ordinary men as per the ones he'd interact with on a regular basis as part of his profession. Thus, a newsletter with such a specific focus was born and no, Good Men did not mean "Men who adhere to feminist ideology".

What happened over the years, however, tends to contain an all too familiar pattern: He hired editors and permanent columnists with a feminist bent. Granted, they were balanced out by Men's Rights authors.

However you can all guess the logical conclusion: Content shifted dramatically to preaching about what makes a "Good Man" in the gender ideological sense. The Men's Rights authors pushed out until the feminist leaning remained.

Soon, the original founder washed his hands of the project and abandoned it, ceding control to the activist ideologues.

That's the unfortunate tragedy of another medium tailored specifically for a male audience taken over by feminists, desecrated beyond recognition by woke ideology.

More-Bluebird5805 · 2023-11-05T19:51:17+00:00

I think a lot of women prefer being the pursuer, rather than pursued but we are pretty invisible (culturally). I pursued and proposed to my husband. I tell younger women that they should go get the men they like, in my experience, men who pursue women are pure trash. Find the quiet guy, or the guy in the middle of a group of other guys, and let him know you are interested. That’s the way to get a quality guy.

OnenutFellow · 2023-11-06T16:18:26+00:00

I never hit on women my entire life because of my fear of being viewed as a predator and when I was young I honestly assumed women hit on men just as much, I'm a bit autistic so some stuff just goes over my head, but that never happened and it completely destroyed my self esteem. It sounds like a stereotype but I didn't understand why the type of guys you hear often women say they don't like big brutes and bullies we're always having girlfriends or multiple sex partners. I wasn't super boring I felt like I had a lot of interesting things to say but I never got approached and I didn't understand why now I understand for the most part men have to do the approaching but then they'll be labeled as predators if it doesn't go well (not to say there aren't guys that are extremely predatorial they're obviously are) but it just seems like it's basically inevitable that if you have to be the one that seeks out women that it will be viewed on some level as predatorial but most guys have no other choice women are not going to approach them.

Title	Really good (albeit decade old) article I found for men worried about their sexuality being seen as inherently predatory.
Author	Awesometjgreen
Upvotes	80
Comments	27
Date	November 5, 2023 6:52 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/17o6b3l/really_good_albeit_decade_old_article_i_found_for/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/really-good-albeit-decade-old-article-i-found-for.1237567 https://theredarchive.com/post/1237567

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