My friend and I thought of this idea today. Can Seddit help me make sense of it?

Bombolini · 2013-06-08T05:25:16+00:00

God i hate you now for making me think too

usaf9211 · 2013-06-08T05:52:14+00:00

Funny, I was in almost the exact situation today, however, my name is not Nate. Anyway, to answer the question, I think that it may be somewhat because the girls will notice you more, and hopefully want you more if you don't pay them any attention. The girl I saw at the gym today was hot, and she knew it, you can tell by what she was wearing and how she carries herself. But I didn't do anything more than briefly make eye contact, then casually go about my business, doing my best to avoid making eye contact again. So in doing this, I noticed that she would tend to walk past me, use machines near me, and look at me (as seen by the gift of peripheral vision). Most girls go to the gym for the guys, unless they are athletes or whatever, so naturally they are going to expect guys to check them out in their yoga pants and cut up shirt, but I think it sort of intrigues, or frustrates them in a good way when a guy doesn't pay her any attention.

EDIT: I just reread this after I posted, I suck at commas, sorry.

itseemstoberaining · 2013-06-08T17:14:02+00:00

Pretty much everybody here is way overthinking things.

A hot girl doesn't think "I'm a hot girl. I'm a hot girl. I'm a hot girl." all the time. Some highly attractive girls aren't even aware that they're attractive. Some are, but don't care. Being hot is not an active thing. We attribute all these thoughts to hot girls because all WE see is "hotness". They don't see that. They are just experiencing life, just like we are. Some with attractive self-images, others without.

The fact that you're devising elaborate theories about what "hot girls" (as opposed to women, or people, in general?) think based on how much you stare at them in the gym betrays how much you really care about them, and their approval.

A man who has his shit together can look at an attractive girl, smile at her, talk with her, and she'll like it. An unattractive, needy man can ignore her all she wants and nothing will ever happen. No matter how good you feel about ignoring her...

Bombolini · 2013-06-08T06:14:34+00:00

Why do you care to make the point that you don't stare at girls at the gym? Are you approaching these girls, number closing, etc? Do you wait 30 minutes working out to wait until they notice you not noticing them, then approach?

Cause unless you are, there's no need to talk like you have a leg up on your friend who is simply enjoying the sight of a beautiful girl. It's not like it means anything that you aren't looking.

And these questions lose significance when you approach and realize it she didn't give a shit and wasn't watching after guys who weren't looking at her.

Bombolini · 2013-06-08T06:16:28+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Throwaway_AMOG · 2013-06-08T05:49:31+00:00

Such a simple question, yet so complicated.

Deranged_Individual · 2013-06-08T06:59:34+00:00

It honestly doesn't matter, it really does not matter at all if you stare at them just as long as you don't get caught and they don't notice you obviously watching them from afar without saying anything. At the end of the day the only thing that will matter is if you go up and talk to these girls. You are no better than your friend Nate for not acknowledging them or staring at them. As soon as one of you sees a girl that you like and goes up and talks to them you will be better and in the end that's all that SHOULD matter, not this nonsense emphasis on whether or not to stare at girls.

unruly_teapot · 2013-06-08T11:09:16+00:00

There is a difference between not checking them out and appearing as if you are intimidated by them. Could they construct what you are doing (avoiding looking at them) as you being concerned that they will catch you looking at them? If they get that impression, you're doing more than just validating them you're wrecking yourself. Gym game is a hard one to dissect but most of the girls are there to tone themselves up for the purpose of becoming more appealing to guys, just ignoring them isn't enough of a tactic on its own to work off.

ThrowawayPUA · 2013-06-08T11:44:36+00:00

I heard a similar tactic from an mPUA, I practiced it and I think it does help quite a bit. He suggested you not look at women. Like when you walk down the street, you have to see them enough to not bump into them. But you don't check them out, you don't let your eyes follow them, etc. This is a minor sort of training in abundance mentality. If you have plenty of beautiful women in your life, you don't need to go stare at beautiful women. I tried it and I thought the exercise worked pretty well. At first, I noticed I had a tendency to gawk at women more than I realized. It gives a bad impression, because women notice if you look at them, and they notice if you're looking at other women. It lowers your social value. Ultimately you can't completely stop looking at women. But if you can't help but look at a woman who is attractive enough to gawk at, that is your signal to approach NOW. That's the other part of the exercise.

2013-06-08T16:00:01+00:00

[deleted]

jbg89 · 2013-06-09T02:00:57+00:00

In my rookie days (not that I'm an expert now) I tried to avoid staring and sometimes even looking at beautiful women completely to try to not come off as desperate or creepy but that just made women think I wasn't interested in them. What works for me now it casually making eye contact a few times and then approach.

2013-06-09T05:14:46+00:00

When you're not staring, it makes us feel a little more comfortable with you as a person (the stares put me on guard immediately because the guy sees me as a sexual target first, rather than a person). Avoiding that creepy vibe is about all that aloof is going to do for you with most women.

Think about it. Everyone likes to feel attractive, and vain people like it more than the rest of us. But the line you're talking about, based on whose acceptance a woman will want, is not going to start with "random guy at my gym."

Also, the person who doesn't even know you, but will fight for your attention when you take it away, is giving you two pieces of information about herself: 1) She will try to override what she thinks that you want in order to get you to do something she wants, and 2) She values attention pretty highly. These are two big waving red flags for a person who is needy, boundary challenged, and values other people's opinions higher than her own.

If you want to date that, go ahead, but I think it's just going to backfire. Don't stare at women because you're giving us a break from your attention, not because you think that's going to make us give you more attention.

jp_lolo · 2013-06-08T09:49:50+00:00

i don't give men what they want if i know they look hot. but sometimes i just gotta admire and let them know what i think. it's a tough line.

2013-06-08T15:00:11+00:00

I think its because when you dont care you send off a vibe "I am drowning in poontang right now and more would be a hassle".

If other women desire you, thats enough for her to desire you.

DrMcDreamy15 · 2013-06-08T15:22:34+00:00

Your buddy is right. You do w/e you want, you dont care for their reaction because you act upon your desires. Women are attracted to a man who is confident within himself to do w/e he feels like doing without any need of approval and recognition.

If you feel like staring at a chick that is obviously working out for that exact reason, do it, smile and go back to your own routine. No need to be apologetic or pretend like you dont want to look to make yourself seem sooo mysterious and uninterested. That shits stupid.

Edit: Read Models by Mark Manson

recyclablebantha · 2013-06-08T19:29:48+00:00

"So, I don't give them what they want. This way, I stand out more than the next guy who will be caught staring time after time. They do not have my recognition."

True. And it's good to stand out like this.

"Makes sense" Nate says to me before poking this hole in my theory: "Why do they care about your recognition?"

Everyone cares about recognition. It's just human nature.

but where is the line drawn between who's acceptance they care about and who's acceptance they do not fight for

There are two things happening when you show open desire as your friend was doing:

Considering the fact that he's not approaching, he's possibly showing a lack of confidence.
He's showing that he is going to give them approval for basically doing nothing.

These things represent, "the line". It's not about "acceptance they care about" vs "acceptance they do not fight for".

It's about approval for doing nothing (which puts them on a de facto pedestal) & demonstrating lack of confidence (due to lack of approaching) vs demonstrating confidence AND that approval is not given away freely, but earned.

It makes sense that women want to be desired.....

This is why desire needs to be obvious during the pick-up, but it's best in most cases if you don't jump the gun on this. Desire isn't something you should open yourself up to feeling and showing until you actually KNOW if she's cool or not. And you won't know that until you talk to her for a certain amount of time.

And re: showing desire vs being aloof, this is a false choice. It's about showing good inner game (outcome independence, confidence, etc.) or not. If you have good inner game, you can show desire and it will actually help you. On the other hand, if you don't have good inner game, being aloof might help you hide that lack of good inner game but it's only a temporary stall: once she gets close enough to you to see the real you, or once you cave and start going AFC or putting her on a pedestal, then the game will be up.

SpaceToaster · 2013-06-08T22:58:02+00:00

I got called out for staring at a gorgeous pair of boobs the other day. My reply was "It's your fault for having such fantastic cleavage and showing it off with that shirt." (Unapologetically and teasingly)

Gym is a bit different. Most girls are there to get a serious workout in, not show off their bodies. I tend not to approach in the gym unless it is obvious that she is receptive to it. One account I can recall is two girls not even working out really just looking at themselves in the mirror and I called them out for being dorks. Told them I was off to the hot tub and lo-and-behold they showed up.

Captain-Magic · 2013-06-08T06:14:37+00:00

Almost everyone seeks a little validation through their looks, especially women, so that's why they want men to look at them!

Put yourself in her shoes for a minute: how would it make you feel if women looked you up and down? That's right, it would feel fucking good wouldn't it? Even if you didn't necessarily want that girl. Validation my friend!

You're doing the right thing though in my opinion: do not validate her looks. It's bait. They want men who are into them for other reasons than just looks.

ysef95 · 2013-06-08T12:27:45+00:00

from a scientific point of view its to do with the social conditioning and validation people get when they feel desired especially women. The reason it makes you stand out to not give them that validation is that they are used to recieving it so when you withold that from them you demonstrate a lack of demand for what they have. This then stops them from being overconfident when you do approach it works on the same principle as a neg its used to equalise the women to you yes you both find each other attractive but neither one of you is anything special to the other. It may also demonstrate abundance mentality which helps you DHV and allows women to feel that since other women are interested in you then its fine for them to be interested as well.

2013-06-08T18:23:04+00:00

The easy way to explain this is as such: when a woman understands that men will give attention to her, she uses that as a confidence boost or as a way to feel indulged. the best way to play this game is to let her know in a non verbal way you've seen her, but have little interest. this causes her to think about what might she not be doing, and will try to push you to give her the satisfaction of your attention. with this, you are making her chase you, which gives you free reign to try to make a first move when she wants your attention.

Gentle-Mang · 2013-06-08T23:58:09+00:00

There's a reason women-only gyms exist, and being ogled all day when you're trying to work out is probably the main reason.

Women may feel good if they receive attention from attractive men, but they certainly don't feel good if they receive attention from unattractive men, aka 'creeps'.

This is a deeply ingrained psychological thing, because tens of thousands of years ago the consequences of having sex with an unsuitable mate were very high for women, so they have evolved a disproportionately strong dislike of receiving attention from someone that they consider to be undesirable.

HardworkDedication · 2013-06-09T06:36:14+00:00

Easy, She wants to be desired by those that she finds desirable. I remember this woman from my gym she was a bikini competitor. I never said a word or gave her a glimpse and always just went in and trained hard and even thought I always knew she was watching me (sick workout ethic and growing physique) until one day she opened me. After that I would give her the passing convo when I felt like because i knew she always wants to say hi but I changed gyms before anything came of it. So in a nutshell the majority of women perceive their own beauty externally, if others don't perceive them to be beautiful then they will believe that they are not. quick example take the most gorgeous 10 and place her in a party with 8's if no guy approaches her but she sees guys talking to all these 8's her perception of her own beauty will plummet

Title	My friend and I thought of this idea today. Can Seddit help me make sense of it?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	17
Comments	44
Date	June 8, 2013 4:51 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/1fwtk1/my_friend_and_i_thought_of_this_idea_today_can/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/my-friend-and-i-thought-of-this-idea-today-can.1353537 https://theredarchive.com/post/1353537

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