"And who set that system up?"

63daddy · 2024-10-31T15:31:22+00:00

You do a great job of addressing a common feminist flawed argument.

I have no more say in government policy than a woman does. In fact, there are more eligible women voters than men. Politicians of both parties pander to the women’s vote. Feminism has strong lobbying influence whereas the MRM has almost none.

Many of the laws that discriminate on a basis of sex (against men) weren’t passed by the male sex or created and passed by a mythical male patriarchy, they are a result of feminist lobbying efforts.

RoryTate · 2024-10-31T16:28:41+00:00

This commonly attempted argument is just The Narcissist's Prayer in action:

That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.

Compare the "Men set that system up" argument – an obvious non-sequitur BTW – to the last line: "You deserve it." Notice the similarities? The idea that just because you share dangly bits with someone else, you automatically share responsibility for all their actions, is patently absurd. Yet, it allows these extremists to feel justified in dismissing you completely.

All you need to understand this reply is that it tells you that you are dealing with a narcissist. And their ideology itself is narcissism on steroids and HGH combined.

GreenChile_ClamCake · 2024-10-31T15:31:38+00:00

These are the same people who cry about “victim shaming” all the time. I’m not even 30 yet, and I’m not allowed to vent about any issues because apparently some men set up a system over 200 years ago

neveragoodtime · 2024-10-31T19:02:03+00:00

Women have two ways of arguing these points. Basically everything in our world was created by men. So the things they like were done by men, that were secretly led by women who actually did all the groundwork for them to take credit. And the things they don’t like were done by men.

They have to remove all agency from women in order to blame all things on men. So, who created the patriarchy? It was the women, wives, and mothers who stood to benefit from the men fighting, protecting, and providing for them. Over the entire history of society, women have always had the option of working and making it on their own, on farms, in sweatshops, but labor has typically been incredibly brutal. And when faced with that option, or marrying and living off the man who worked the field, the mine, or the factory, women have overwhelmingly chosen marriage and patriarchy.

Mitschu · 2024-10-31T18:16:08+00:00

We built essentially all the systems, so it's not some big gotcha to point to the older, more worn down ones that they cling to and go 'but a man built that.'

The Romans built one of the largest road networks, I don't blame them for the US government not fixing the pothole on my street. I don't pay my taxes every year to the ancient Romans (even though they also had a hand in developing census taxes, now that I think about it.)

"Who set that system up?" I don't know, some guy in a cave with fresh mammoth blood as his paint doodling the zany shit he thought up onto the walls. He didn't leave his phone number, we have no way of complaining to him. Let's stick in the now, who is keeping that system going? I want to deal with them.

Oh hello, is this modern feminism speaking? Yes, I'd like to file a complaint. One moment please while you try to transfer the blame to some guy in a cave with fresh mammoth blood from 40,000 years ago? No, I won't hold.

Slandalf · 2024-10-31T16:37:26+00:00

This is a method of redirecting the proactive, targeted actions that feminists reserve for addressing anti-woman discrimination to the broader condemnation of “patriarchy” which typically only serves as the starting point of their campaigns to fix gender inequality. Of course, in this case since the subject is anti-male discrimination, it functions as the ending point as well.

If you attempt to drill down further into the sort of specific prescriptions, campaigns, or policymaking they universally take for anti-woman inequality, you’ll invariably notice (if their programming even allows for engagement this far) that any and all they suggest will be vague variation on “give women more power”.

They do it because it’s an effective appeal for lower-order thinkers to dismiss male issues by diverting cognitive resources away from actionable prescriptions back to a refrain of their central dogma of “patriarchy” - ultimately to reassert the doctrine while reinforcing gynocentric social forces.

This is all without even getting into the fact that the premise embedded in their initial sealion comment is completely false - proven by nearly a century of lobbies and campaigns by prominent women’s rights organizations to not only enshrine women’s existing legal/social advantages, but to actively create new discriminations against men (pressure to close male shelters, Duluth model, etc.).

TheRealJamesHoffa · 2024-10-31T19:32:53+00:00

It’s a really stupid and obviously incorrect argument. I tried to point out that if all men should be blamed for “setting that system up”, then all men should receive credit for building most of society as well. And the women literally just couldn’t wrap their mind around that concept. They thought I was just saying that and genuinely believed I deserve credit for creating society personally, rather than recognizing that it’s just the inverse of what they’re saying.

_WutzInAName_ · 2024-10-31T23:32:08+00:00

They will say “and who set that system up? The patriarchy!” But they will also say “Behind every great man is a great woman,” and not see the contradiction.

Politicians also implement policy in response to voter preferences, and women have voted in large numbers for policies and politicians that benefit women. Heck, women had lots of influence on social policy even before they could vote, and were key to making Prohibition happen.

thedeadllama · 2024-11-01T04:17:47+00:00

"Who set that system up" is such a terrible argument that most of the time I just leave the conversation right then. Like what do they expect me to say? "Oh yes, you're right, I forgot! At the last patriarchy meeting, WE set that up! Thank you for reminding me, I'll fix it right now."

alter_furz · 2024-10-31T19:47:54+00:00

more than 50% of voters are women, so who set that system up? LOL

EDITED:

p.s. When the court overturned Roe vs Wade, it had more women in the decision making group than when the original case took place back in those times. Basically, women overturned Roe vs Wade

Jaded_Ad1648 · 2024-11-01T03:22:35+00:00

If you want to get technical about who set the systems up, it was old women and men, so old people.

All of it, from the beginning, the elders were the most powerful in nearly every pre- tribal society, egalitarian or not it was the old people.

Can't blame them though, I'd want perks too if I could barely walk.

reaper88911 · 2024-11-01T06:13:42+00:00

I don't remember exactly where I read it, but it's 3rd or 4th wave feminism that's making people insane..

Iirc

1st wave was for basic rights like voting and stuff 2nd wave was for rights to work where they wanted 3rd wave is pushing men down so women can take that position in work and life and stuff. 4th wave is just trying to crush men and force them into a lower life form position

Purrczak · 2024-11-01T08:06:50+00:00

Who set up the systems?

The rich.

TheDwiin · 2024-11-01T08:15:15+00:00

Simply put, one of the big things I always point out when women bring up the "why don't men fight their own battles?" Argument is that men do fight for their own rights, but they're resisted every step of the way from radical feminists.

For example, there have been way too many times when college age men try to start up a men's center on their campuses to provide a safe space for men as well as provide resources and spread awareness of male victims of DV / SV. Every. Single. Time. Radical feminists protest it's saying that men don't need safe spaces.

"We would work on the issues ourselves if you would let us."

hendrixski · 2024-11-01T10:55:40+00:00

The Rich

The rich set the system up. It sure AF was not set up by men who were forced to die and get dismembered on battlefields so that the men and women of the richer classes could profit off of war.

It sure AF eas not set up by men breaking their backs on farm fields in order to feed their family.

Sirhugh66 · 2024-11-02T05:35:12+00:00

DON'T ENGAGE WITH FEMINISTS.

TisIChenoir · 2024-10-31T20:25:27+00:00

Everyone. Oligarchs of all gender definitely.

If you go back far enough, why is it men in position of power? I'd say in huge part because women selected those traits in men via sexual selection...

eli_ashe · 2024-11-01T01:42:37+00:00

imho youre dealing with folks beliefs in Patriarchal Realism. you may do better attacking that undergirding specific belief rather than trying to argue it point by point. Patriarchal Realism as a belief enables them to ignore reality, history, even basic and obvious facts in favor of upholding that specific delusional way of understanding patriarchy.

it is one of the ideological commitments that Radical Feminism in particular holds to, tho it is present in other feminist theories, such as for instance Liberal Feminism.

Vegetable_Ad1732 · 2024-11-01T03:15:46+00:00

Remind them they are most of the electorate.

Leather_Tax1095 · 2024-11-01T00:00:43+00:00

They’re all super tough girls with no concept of the real world

That’s the fact that crumbles them

They’re children and should be treated as such

Big sads 😂

gloopy_gloppy · 2024-11-01T01:41:49+00:00

Feminists just hate men, individually and institutionally. You can't argue with them in an attempt to change their minds. You can only do so to prevent others from becoming victims of the victim-hood cult.

UnbentSandParadise · 2024-10-31T23:23:15+00:00

It sure as shit wasn't me, either you think all men should be alright with this system because other men set it up and then no men should support feminism or we're allowed to complain because we had as much personal say as you did.

Or similar would be my take. If you want me to be alright with the system other men set up I should be fighting to remove all those rights women have because that's the way they made it. I'm not them and I'm allowed to have my own gripes.

AmeliaRood · 2024-11-01T07:46:48+00:00

Sorry I really tried to read with an open mind but what are you talking about? Who are these extremist feminists that have the power to push down men and which systems are they powering that have a negative effect on men? You mention "boy only spaces" so I'm assuming you are young. I wonder what do you mean by that. Like on the internet or?

Title	"And who set that system up?"
Author	Rich-Incident-7040
Upvotes	142
Comments	43
Date	October 31, 2024 3:17 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1gggzf9/and_who_set_that_system_up/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/and-who-set-that-system-up.1534198 https://theredarchive.com/post/1534198

Comments

The Rich