What do y'all think of this ?

teball3 · 2025-03-25T13:09:58+00:00

He fundamentally seems to misunderstand the problem, while crying bullshit at people who do see the problem but have bad optics like ShoeOnHead, while also citing people to "Support" his argument like F.D. Signifier who also says the left has failed men.

Basically, he is doing exactly what the problem is. He isn't listening, but says "men" need to listen. He actually says "it would be stupid of me to say this" and then has 0 self awareness that that is exactly what he thinks "men" are saying. In other words, he thinks the only thing wrong, is that "men" are stupid.

"Men" in quotes like that I should note, doesn't actually mean men. He means entirely disaffected right wing, young men.

So he's putting his fingers in his ears and saying "bla bla bla, I can't hear you", exactly the problem.

Just to lay it out so no one else needs to be confused: the problem isn't just "appeal". The problem is that there are very vocal, powerful movements on the left that are explicitly misandrist. There is also a lot of men suffering under the economy and rapid social change, and men's suffering is not ever given the same light or clemency of cause as women's issues. I.e. when women aren't elected to positions of power at equal amounts despite having every right needed to be, we call it misogyny. When young men are murdered and commit suicide at record breaking numbers, we don't call that misandry, or even address it as a problem, or call it a systemic discrimination, or better yet, the very young men suffering are villified for their potential danger to others. In other words, victimization is withheld as social capital, never to be given to men, and so the men who are victims of a system that's against them aren't going to listen to the gaslighting about it.

Initial_Zebra100 · 2025-03-25T12:50:30+00:00

The problem is that men are suffering. Its just an uncomfortable and complicated solution. No easy fix.

The 'left' don't actually care. They want more votes. Yeah the the right lies, but they actually pretend to listen. The left will openly shame and insult men. Not all but enough.

Look how people reacted when trump won. It was mostly saying it was misogynistic men fault. Not women. Not other demographics. Just men.

It's tiresome. I consider myself pretty left leaning, but this stuff annoys the crap out of me. I wish they would say they don't actually care about other people's problems, including men. I'd actually appreciate the honesty.

Rant over.

gox777 · 2025-03-25T16:35:33+00:00

The biggest issue I see is that he identified the primary source of male disenfranchisement as being "propaganda" from rightwing influences while not giving much acknowledgement to the lived experiences of men on the left within their social circles.

That said, I appreciated the video as he went on and made some acknowledgements around the problem of purity culture.

I get the sense that he's someone who has been relatively less impacted personally and is perhaps simply not as exposed to misandrist tendencies. (For example - I would posit that a leftist who has been in a steady monogamous relationship for the past 10 years is going to have less exposure to the manifestation of misandry than a leftist who's been actively dating during that time)

The video doesn't say all that there is to be said, but I don't hate it.

Readshirt · 2025-03-25T14:18:41+00:00

The left absolutely has failed men, the premise of his video is wrong.

The video says that the left simply need to frame better towards men, change how they message - "the ways and avenues that they try to communicate with them", as he says...

A few thoughts:

He says "[only] the right is willing to politicise the non-political". Really? Who was it that created the socially authoritarian, stifling cultural paradigm we live in today? Where we can't talk freely for fear of offending someone and the person choosing to take that offence creating consequences we cannot control. Where comedy as it was has been completely destroyed. Where films and TV push agendas and messages most people don't agree with, to the detriment of the storytelling and escapism, to the point people have now even largely stopped arguing against this and just checked out hoping (probably rightly) it will slowly burn itself to the ground. Where men are often genuinely and rightly afraid of women in a variety of social, public and professional situations because of the very real power we all know they hold over us by their words alone and having seen it exercised either at ourselves or at friends, all while we are told we are the ones that have power.

Where is this power? I would happily take some if I'm being completely honest, but it does not seem forthcoming. We don't live in the world they tell us we do, and we can all see it, everywhere, every day.

So back to the point the video is making. It isn't a framing issue or a communication issue like he says. The message itself is the issue. As one of the comments said, men are genuinely suffering in a variety of multifaceted ways.

It is in the data - we are less often getting higher educations, we are being openly discriminated against in applications for schools, jobs and promotions. We are openly discriminated against by the justice system, particularly but by no means exclusively in the family courts. We are openly mistrusted and detested by every corner of visible, actionable power in the workplace and in society. We are killing ourselves. And nearly all of these things are still getting directionally worse. Sometimes I am surprised the data is not more censored and massaged in its presentation than it already is to hide these things better, if I am completely honest. But for now at least it is there for all to see.

Many things about the ways we are running society now does not work for men. Either it is subtle and passive - to do with how society has changed anyway technologically - or it is overt - anti-male bias all over the place. In either case, we need genuine change, help and policy. Not a different "framing" of the same message.

These data exist, these phenomena exist. And what do we get from the left? "Just listen better". "We are right, you are wrong, none of this is happening, you just need to listen better until you understand". Worse than that, "Men are the problem, but we need them on side. How do we manipulate them into it?" Just like this video - the message isn't the problem, apparently, the framing is. No.

If you slapped down a party right now that acknowledged and provided practical, actionable solutions to redress many of the problems I listed above, along with left-wing, economically redistributive policies, it would win the votes of men in a landslide. I guarantee it. But that isn't going to happen, because these people are institutionally misandrist. They've been taught it nearly from birth - men are the source of all evil. They cannot conceive of the experiences young men are having every day. Social shunning for no reason. Discrimination at school and work justified by privileges they have never had. Being told they are potential rapists and potential abusers when we know the vast majority of men detest these things and by the way are exceedingly likely to be the ones stopping it when it happens too.

He acknowledges the "purity culture" of the left and says this might be a problem. Might be? He basically says to get over it and that these people are outliers. That is not the case when the misandrist policies and attitudes they promote are commonplace enough and genuinely enforced that so many young men experience their effects every day or every week of their lives.

If this man was falsely accused of a sexual crime or denied access to his children and forced to pay vast sums that will not go to his children after his wife had been unfaithful, he would see the world for what it is. He simply has been fortunate enough not to see it yet. But the rest of us have. Reassurance that the "bad left" are a small minority is not just unhelpful, its openly the opposite of the strategy required because it minimises the issue. These structural and societal problems facing men need to be openly called out and recognised as genuine problems, alongside and equal to the genuine problems still faced by women and other specific groups, and genuinely acted upon. That is what is required and if the left aren't willing to do that, they aren't getting men back. I hope they do get their act together, because I'd love to be able to vote again for the left that left me.

Many of us saw this coming in the 2010s and we raised the alarm. We were told to shut up and gradually pushed out.

Apologies for the wall of text. Took the opportunity to get my thoughts on the growing "responses", like this video, to the recent revelations that men aren't taking their mistreatment lying down.

AbysmalDescent · 2025-03-25T14:11:59+00:00

Most of the propaganda I am seeing against men is coming directly from the left. "Men don't have problems", "men are the problem", "men are getting indoctrinated by right wing propaganda/celebrities, and that is why they are depressed/violent and hate women", "men are bad because patriarchy", "there's no male loneliness problem", "men are depressed/lonely because they don't have any male friends and they deserve it because they suck".

You see these types of false and debunked arguments being repeated over and over again from the right, in shows, movies, social media and political campaigns. They are very clear attempts from the left to either invalidate men's issues or derail them into further misandry, often with the goal of further pandering to women(seeking either approval, validation or votes/views). So, yes, the left has clearly failed men in a very big way.

The right also fails men in a lot of ways too, in different ways like pushing sexist traditional roles onto men or just thinking the only way forward for men to fix these issues is to shut up and be better men, but even that is still considerably more friendly to men than what the left has become.

None of this should really prevent someone from being conservatives or liberal/democratic, but when a lot of these narratives come into politics and law making, it does become a major problem.

Flashy-Discussion-57 · 2025-03-25T19:42:24+00:00

Reminds me of Kavernacle's man video. Dude kept saying women don't hate men, but then says he wouldn't want to be dating again. Like, he knows there are tons of misandry in society but can't admit it because we need both votes, when the truth is, the misandrists aren't required

Intergalacticio · 2025-03-25T21:25:52+00:00

(Not actually watching the video, but) I feel kind of bad for leaving a gossipy comment about ShoeOnHead here a while ago. I basically implied that she didn’t sound left-wing, which was pretty critical of me—especially as a rando of one of the biggest groups she’s been advocating toward. It was a pretty mean comment about her character.

To clarify, my current view is that the idea of “left-wing” is going through a values shift, making it less and less distinguishable from the right. Maybe it’s just a trend based on who has the power to oppress at the moment—I’m not sure, to be honest. I think I just found it strange to agree with so many of her takes and got a bit defensive. A lot of political commentary channels tend to sound too good to be true, and I’m just skeptical, and I talk about it online…

captainhornheart · 2025-03-24T19:26:27+00:00

It's 14 minutes long. Any chance of a summary?

BandageBandolier · 2025-03-25T15:15:50+00:00

I think it looks like rage bait and/or shameless self-promotion.

Down with grifters.

ChimpPimp20 · 2025-03-26T05:38:05+00:00

Once again, systemic male issues is not reported by these same "progressives." "You men just have ignorance and you need to unlearn it." I also don't like that he underplays the large impact toxic rad fems have on the movement and how they can add fuel to the fire. It's never just one feminist being an asshole and then all of a sudden a man goes down the alt-right pipe line. It's a series of events that happen from childhood to adulthood. I find it funny that he mentions FD Signifier because in that very video FD mentions that men are never just a blank slate that hear misogyny once and then glaze Andrew Tate all of a sudden. It's a series of events that influence their view on women. What both FD and this guy fail (almost deliberately) to acknowledge is that toxic women also play a role here but they aren't really brought up in any significant way. It's all just the misogynistic men's fault.

In regards to women, we understand that it's a series of events from bad men that help influence their misandrist attitudes. However, they tend to actually justify it and even go as far as to say that we need to not have hatred for men but...apathy for men (said by Madisyn Brown in her "misandry is unhealthy for you video"). When problematic men are brought up, the concept of women helping influence that is almost completely forgotten. It's like women hold the copyright to trauma and feminists give men de facto copyright strikes when they wanna mention theirs. With women they explain it as "I've known a lot of bad men and now I'm weary of them." When men are brought up it's explained away as "i gOt mAdE fUn oF bY a fEmInIsT aNd nOw I hAtE wOmEn!" It's never just one though is it? It's your teachers; your spouses, your bosses, your coworkers, your customers, your friends, your relatives and yourself. It all adds up eventually. The only reason I used to watch mgtow stuff (I wasn't fully involved and left within a year) was because the situations in the clips they showed related to me. Hateful ideologies never just manifest from other people doing the hating but also the people from the same demographic they learn to hate.

I wonder how many BreadTubers have seen Mindhunter. There's all sorts of killers who were hurt by their mothers. Ed Gein and Ed Kemper are the first come to mind. Some are recently even saying Chris Watt's mother was problematic. Overall, they're not wrong and traumatized people need to be responsible and work on trying not to traumatize others. However, the problematic lefties are often conveniently left out the convo to save face.

BhryaenDagger · 2025-03-25T14:57:17+00:00

The vid does a sloppy and ineffective job of providing a counter-point to the genuine concerns men have w the Left- particularly straight white men. It tries to distinguish between the “woke” ultraleftists and “progressives”, portraying the former as fringe and low hanging fruit, but fails to account for how mainstream that “fringe” has become. The entertainment industry in particular is rife w emasculation and the demonization/denigration of the evil straightwhiteguy, and DEI is rife across workplaces and state institutions. The CA lesbian fire chief mocking the job requirement to actually rescue people wasn’t an outlier: that was a chief and it was stated while CA has been in flames for yrs.

It was an attempt to handwave away the failings of the Left, offering no interruption of the tendency on the Left to vehemently resist self-criticism rather than adapt and mature. The Shoe0nHead vids (particularly the ones coming out after his vid around the election) offer far more meaningful attempts at Leftist self-critique and drive at more comprehensive realities. She’s openly advocates Bernie Sanders- something the big business Dems abhor. It’s telling how the Ozy vid opens w a declaration of gym training and having a girlfriend as credentials as if the appeal of the Right is healthiness and heterosexuality- a very needless and erroneous nod to the Right while not addressing the non-superficial concerns at all. (The vid comments mock this as the Swoletariat. lol)

Ultimately neither the Right or Left offer genuine solutions on the topics introduced. The Right’s “appeal” generally comes down to religious conformity and blaming the individual for their own condition w no social accountability for those in power. The Right’s primary appeal now is simply due to the Left essentially surrendering ground without a fight, allowing the Right to pose as the sane one in the room by embracing the insanity. Trump won both times due to onerous failings of the Left- animosity deriving from the party line bigotry vs men- but not at all due to strengths of the Right. Those two are simply the only offered options, so as the Left alienates straights, whites, and guys, men are bound to at least try the alternative. The vid also needlessly praises Jordan Peterson, but I agree w one thing he said after Trump’s first win (via electoral college): “Trump wasn’t a great candidate. That election was always Clinton’s to lose.” Only the Left’s failings could make Trump as appealing as he’s become.

The Left needs to return to being the progressive tendency that supports the advancing working class living standards- with or without the existing parties (Dems in the US)- or else it faces political irrelevance to men out there in the worsening economic situation. Burning Teslas, rioting “for” black people, insisting on “nonbinary” linguistic reengineering, ruining franchises… aren’t providing solutions and aren’t winning tactics.

Glittering-Profit-36 · 2025-03-26T08:26:53+00:00

In my opinion, this crying about problems will only worsen them psychologically for young men.

Solution lies at fundamental restructuring of society towards a more naturalistic order and let everything adjust according to that (including political rights).

No platform in our mainstream is ready for that discourse yet.

Dapper_Platform_1222 · 2025-03-26T17:27:37+00:00

The problem as I see it is that you have to be a certain age to even remember when the Democratic party was not a wing of the feminist movement.

They bit hard on trying to sell their party as the feminist and progressive party when in fact most people really don't like feminists all that much because it is an essence a female supremacy party. So automatically you're up against it when you're trying to bring in men. Add in the actual messaging that there is some sort of hidden cabal called the patriarchy. It's not rocket science to see why men want nothing to do with this party.

Ok-Time5668 · 2025-03-25T01:35:53+00:00

Title : The Left hasn't failed Men

Summary : The video discusses the phenomenon of young men being drawn into alt-right ideologies, often referred to metaphorically as the "Walkmine Virus." It highlights several key points:

Radicalization: Young men can quickly become radicalized through social media, where they encounter cherry-picked content that reinforces their biases.
Gender Trends: While young women are trending liberal, young men are increasingly leaning conservative, partly due to societal conditioning and traditional gender roles.
Communication Gaps: The left struggles to effectively communicate with young men, often using complex language that is less relatable. In contrast, right-wing messaging tends to be simpler and more digestible.
Cultural Politics: The politicization of spaces like fitness culture has created a divide, with young men feeling alienated by progressive views on body image and fitness.
Critique of Leftist Purity Culture: The left's internal divisions and purity culture can alienate individuals who do not fully align with specific ideologies, making it seem unwelcoming.
Need for Solutions: The left should focus on practical solutions and addressing young men's insecurities rather than relying solely on ideals of kindness and good parenting.

Overall, the video calls for a better understanding of young men's perspectives and the need for the left to engage with them more effectively to prevent further radicalization.

Title	What do y'all think of this ?
Author	Ok-Time5668
Upvotes	8
Comments	44
Date	March 24, 2025 2:19 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/1jirrb9/what_do_yall_think_of_this/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/what-do-yall-think-of-this.1547497 https://theredarchive.com/post/1547497

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