Disaster Right Out Of The Gate

FleetingWish · 2014-06-13T20:57:12+00:00

I did just everything wrong in this situation.

You're in an abusive relationship. The sooner you realize it, the better.

eatplaycrush · 2014-06-13T21:58:34+00:00

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margerym · 2014-06-13T22:55:54+00:00

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sierrasecho · 2014-06-13T15:26:55+00:00

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APrivatephilosophy · 2014-06-13T23:47:10+00:00

A marriage where you're both home together each night and have a constant flow to things is a whole other ballgame from a wife whose husband works on the road.

My husband is always down range. You play all the roles at home so it can be tough to snap your hands off the steering wheel when he comes home. I know this, my husband is gone for work a TON for extended periods of time. Actually, we've been married for five years, and over half of that he's been across the country or out of the country. It sucks.

There's a special kind of difficulty that comes with long distance marriages. Idk how long he's been working on the road, but it gets harder as it gets easier. Being apart is easier, being together can be harder. Things take 10 times longer to simmer. You STAY together for X amount of time, but you're only together together for a fraction of it, so things build very slowly and the setbacks can be huge. You both crawl into your "survival" mindset while you're apart. You have to learn not to care about them and then re-care about them at the snap of a finger. It sucks.

I'm going to be honest, it seems like something is missing here. He has a temper, and he needs to straighten that out. danabanana9 has a few things to say that I think apply to this situation. FleetingWish says its an abusive relationship, but I want to throw it out there that unless this stuff is totally normal and usual, we're not here to make that assumption.

Stop fighting in front of you kids. Your pride and your temper egged him on, no matter what he was acting like. Stop swearing in front of your children. This absolutely must stop.

That said, when my man flies off the handle, it sounds a lot like what you've described here, so I believe that it is possible you did try to throw water on the fire and still got these reactions. I can't really tell you what to do instead. You've got kids, so mistake of a marriage or no, you two have to figure it out. It isn't just your happiness on the line, your children need mom and dad to get their shit together. I'm saying this for you, but also for all the people reading your post who love to tell ppl to get divorced, cop out, and try to find a nutless feminist to marry instead.

You can dig out of this. Slow progress. And before you ever say anything to your man again, and especially when things are heated, put it through this four-fold filter:

Is it true?
Is it relevant?
Is it helpful?
Is it kind?

Everything you say needs to meet all of these criteria before you say it. Start there. And remember, change takes a long time.

TempestTcup · 2014-06-14T19:30:55+00:00

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TempestTcup · 2014-06-13T15:06:29+00:00

If one of you doesn't back down, you are going to end up killing each other; since you can only change yourself and not others, I would suggest you backing down. You are both very high dominance. You have such a short amount of time together, and both of you are used to being in control, so the time you are spending together is spent butting heads instead of enjoying that time together.

You are going to need to let things go. Quit bristling at everything. Quit even talking when he is upset; it seems to be compounding the problem.

This is something I struggle with myself, but usually when my husband is upset about something, he just wants to vent; he doesn't want help with the problem, he doesn't want soothing words, and he doesn't want excuses. STFU and let him vent.

You will have to be the person to stop the escalation.

And listen to Dana - she lives happily with a very high dominance man; she knows her stuff.

eatplaycrush · 2014-06-13T20:18:56+00:00

since our buddies linked to this, im going to overstate the obvious

you probably married a not so great guy. then you had kids with him

you probably made a mistake

that being said, we arent big fans here of blowing up marriages with kids

you cant change him. you can leave him and blow up your family, or you can change yourself. those are really your only choices--neither of them are great

Bakerofpie · 2014-06-13T18:13:02+00:00

You two bring out the worst in each other. I wouldn't have dealt with my husband using a switch on our son... Because I wouldn't have married a man who would choose that kind of discipline. It's something we discussed so that I wouldn't end up in a position of overruling my husband or running into this situation. It was a prerequisite to marriage and children. We both wanted to make sure we had similar feelings about it. Now you are stuck. You didn't learn about who this man was before you married him, and there is no way to make him change without nagging and controlling him. I'm sorry I can't give you a positive message, but it really sounds like you are either going to have to live your life in a very much NOT red pill relationship, or learn to bite your tongue and let him run things even though you don't really trust him to do so.

margerym · 2014-06-14T00:08:49+00:00

He spanked him with a switch, as opposed to his hand. I got up in arms about it.

About this- I would have, too. Generally speaking you shouldn't argue with your husband. If you respect him, he's the head of household, blah blah blah blah... I think we're all in agreement, there. But a switch? I mean at all I'd be upset but over that? No, I'm sorry, that was out of line.

Our husbands aren't Gods. They can overstep, they can be wrong, and if it is an issue that could harm us and/our kids then yeah, we say something.

EDIT: I should say there is a difference between "getting up in arms" and talking to him about it. The Mama Bear in us comes out, let's be honest here, but we need to also temper our responses.

That all said I do think you cam on way too heavy handed in the beginning

So, falling in line with RPW ideals, I began to cater to him immediately. I took him into the shower, took care of him better than I have in years, offered to make him food. He seemed happy about it, but quietly so.

I may be a bit confused on this point but it reads like you were smothering him, not catering to him. Obviously I wasn't there but when my husband gets home from a long day of work though I do greet him and love on him I back off right after. He needs time to decompress. "Would you like anything?" I'll ask and usually I get a "Nope" or a grunt and I just move on until he is ready.

The glasses thing is just odd. It reeks of a stressed man at the end of his rope that then tried to make amends and was given the cold shoulder. I'm not willing to say your husband is an abusive ass, though that could easily be the case, when it could also be that he just is really overwhelmed right now. Why did he come home early? Is that a thing that happens a lot or could there be something amiss at work?

Either way he seems to be totally out of control of his emotions. The last little threat is him trying to say "You'll see how I wasn't overreacting" but really? Very juvenile.

My advice is to back off and let him take the lead a bit. I don't see you actually doing that here. Back off, create a vacuum, let him fill it. But if his outbursts don't improve I don't know what to tell you. How afraid for your kid and yourself are you? It's so hard to gauge these things online. Abuse is not okay but so many people think a man that has had a bad day and yells at his wife deserves to wear the scarlet DV around for the rest of his life. I have to admit that I feel like we aren't getting the whole story here and I'm very curious about his side.

Edited to add: It doesn't sound to me like your husband is an actual RP man. Maybe I missed this being discussed (I didn't read all the comments) but are you trying to instill this or is this a mutual thing? Has he read up on it? Etc. It seems like he is really in need of getting his own stuff together which is why I ask. RP men, men that have it together, don't fly off the handle so readily over little things.

banditgirl · 2014-06-13T15:21:27+00:00

Let me try to give a bit of perspective for what he might be experiencing in case you want to try and see it from the other side and figure out what to do.

He seemed happy about it, but quietly so.

"That was nice, but what am I going to put up with later to pay for it" (he doesn't feel fully safe and at home, like that was some kind of a trick and he can't relax after a long time on the road and not being home)

I got up in arms about it.

"Oh there it is. That's the first way I'm going to have to pay. I can't even discipline my kid when he's being a little shit" (You challenged his power and authority. You went from being a sweet mother and sexy wife to another challenge and another man he has to fight)

we came to the mutual agreement

"This shit isn't worth it. I just want to settle in and be home. I worked so damn hard; just want a little bit of peace" (No you don't come to a mutual agreement. He caved. You won. Congrats. Worth it?)

He was happy with it.

"Maybe it's not so bad. Wonder if it's another trick" (You soothed it over, but he's still not settled in)

But he wanted to watch one more hour long episode. I told him it was ultimately up to him but that I was very tired

"I need to know that in this space, I have some authority. That it's not a trick and that I don't have to challenge and vie for power with every interaction. Maybe if I ask for some small concession it will get back to normal" (He's trying to be a man and have you be his wife. Doesn't mean not challenging, but there are times for it. After an absence, you should be having sex and remember your power balances that way. Not through all these petty things)

me lightly reminding him

"Jesus, my morning starts with nagging. All the fucking time. I know what my business is; leave me alone" (He feels like he has no power after handling his business on his own driving)

I did elevate the volume of my voice to match his.

And there you go. Power struggle. Do you really think a dominant man is going to back down from a fight, right or wrong? When we mature enough, we're able to do that better. When younger, we are almost incapable of not fighting. We want to dominate everything and everyone. Doesn't make it healthy or optimal, but recognize him for who he is. Words come and go. It's not even personal to you, it's just a cycle of shit he hasn't mastered. He doesn't mean it in his heart, even tries to make up for it in his own way while you are busy being full of your anger. He wants to work hard, provide for his family, and be respected in his house.

edit: I wanted to try and provide some perspective and not give a lot of suggestions. I try to describe more than prescribe so people make up their own minds about what to do. This whole thing looks very messy to me. A man should use anger and displays of power like throwing things judiciously, because those actions should be calibrated to fit the situation, and not that many situations warrant it (none that I can think of in a marriage). By the time it's escalated so far, it's not worth it to continue. Namecalling, accusing of breaking glasses, pouting, etc, it's not productive. It should be beneath both of you. If you slip into it, then it's an opportunity to learn and do better. Although he could have done better, you can't control and change him no matter how hard you try. You can control yourself, though. So you can either split up, or try to make this marriage work. And if you want to make this work, I suggest developing some ability to distance yourself from your emotions, and behave according to a disciplined set of standards. For example, in this case, he's yelling, calling you names, etc. What if you wait for that anger to pause, and then shift the frame. Say you understand this situation is escalating. And say that you don't want to fight. And just stop and give him a BJ. Or say stop and stop. Or anything else to break frame, to bring you into a better place.

I know it might sound a bit insane, and it's very tough to actually do this frame shifting in the middle of an argument, but think about it. You could stop and do better together or you can be hurt and hold on to the hurt. Your reality, your marriage, and its experience is up to the both of you. You can pick the behavior, the physical action that affects the internal state. Cultivating the ability to pause your emotions, for both of you, would help. He doesn't really seem like a very mature man from your description, but we're all works in progress so long as both of you keep growing. If he cares, he should step up to the plate and lead and improve to manage his anger issues.

Regardless of all that, it is making you both miserable to fight for power all the time. You can do something about that.

Bakerofpie · 2014-06-13T16:11:18+00:00

How can either of you have any respect for one another with that amount of name calling? Why is it OK for you both to say those things in front of your children? It seems that you had a disagreement over the discipline of your child and it turned you both into children.

eatplaycrush · 2014-06-13T15:15:49+00:00

Why do you disagree with how HE disciplines his own son? He is the man of the house and should be able to discipline in any fashion he likes, besides abuse obviously and it's sad I have to add that in so blue pill doesn't take what I say and run off with it. Did you not discuss discipline procedures with your husband? And you act as if it's okay for your child to keep coming out after you've already put them to sleep multiple times? Just because he does that with you and you have patience? Your husband is on the road for periods of time and just wants to relax when he's in HIS paradise aka his house.

You also should have been MORE then willing to stay up another hour. So what if you lose some extra sleep? You haven't seen your husband, he has clearly expressed interest in wanting to spend more time with you and you turned him down. Why would he be thrilled when you cave in with guilt? How is that going to make him more attracted to you? Do you know how many times my SO has gotten home at 3-4am and asked me to hang out for a bit and I happily do because wtf I barely see him. I don't say "sorry I can't be bothered. I won't be able to take care of my clients or the house to the best of my ability." When that's still a false statement. Drink some coffee and move on. It's ONE DAY. He also had to tell you he might not be home long for you to be bothered with staying up an extra hour? No wonder he's not pleased.

My SO is a very heavy sleeper too. Sometimes I have to jump on the bed to get him going. At the time I don't CARE if he gets mad at me for waking him up because he will be happy I did whatever I needed to do to carry out the task I was designated too. I'm not going to sit there and nicely nag him, just get the job done. While I'm sure many people would not like that example for real life usage it's the only way my SO will wake up if he is seriously K.O.

I understand kids make mistakes and break important things without really knowing, but you could have handled the situation a lot better. I have a very high stress/high dominance man and by observing I have found when he says any negative words during a situation that enrages him he isn't directly even speaking to me, but the problem more so. Staying calm and realizing that will be your first step. Not spewing off random things, making no sense, etc will only worsen YOUR feelings and YOUR situation, not his. Crying only makes things WORSE for you, not better. It riles you up even more. Learn to control yourself emotionally in high pressure situations and it will be a gift for your life, not just for your husband.

Bakerofpie · 2014-06-13T15:21:49+00:00

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2014-06-13T16:26:57+00:00

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little_red_ · 2014-06-13T19:09:56+00:00

He remains in bed for another hour or so, me lightly reminding him that he was told to be at the DMV by the person he had talked to at the time when it opens to ensure that they get the issue resolved (a problem with his temp license).

My man is the same way. He works 12 hour shifts and sleeps a good 8-9 after. We were supposed to go to meet his family for dinner one night, and we had spoke the previous day about whether or not we would be able to make it, which he said we would. He knew what time we were supposed to be there and went to sleep without setting an alarm (he did not forget, mind you). I know he is responsible enough to set his own alarms and make time for his own appointments - he was just too tired to make dinner. You are not his mother or his secretary - if he misses his appointment, he will reschedule it like a big boy. I understand your intentions were to be helpful, but you were shooting yourself in the foot.

The rest of the commenters pretty much covered the rest of your post. You've been subtly antagonizing him, whether you were aware of it or not.

thegman84 · 2014-06-14T19:37:27+00:00

he did try to lean down before leaving and stroke my face. I swatted his hand away out of reflex. He tried again and I swatted it away again, this time intentionally and balled my hand into a fist in my lap.

Re-imagine this scenario with the two of you in switched places......

If he had swatted you and then balled his hand into a fist when you got close, this would have just been another reason to label him as abusive and you'd have a choir of women telling you to get out of this "violent" relationship.

If you think he is the abusive one, maybe you ought to re-examine your own actions.

What do I need to do to make this different? Please help.

Making dinner and giving him back rubs are nice, but ultimately ancillary actions of a red pill woman. If you want to make things better stop trying to get the last word and being the "winner" of the fight.

Apologize to him for intentionally escalating the situation. Don't try to force an apology out of him for his own wrong doings.

Finally, ignore the advice that he's the whole problem and that you need to get out. This thread got linked to on the blue pill and they are upvoting shitty advice.

Just my two cents as a red pill man.

2014-06-15T22:31:35+00:00

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2014-06-13T16:11:18+00:00

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2014-06-13T14:27:19+00:00

you arent even trying to stop controlling him

He argued but we came to the mutual agreement that if I found his way of discipline unacceptable then I would be the one to take on the discipline for him solely.

you argued til you forced him to concede

But he wanted to watch one more hour long episode.

I told him it was ultimately up to him but that I was very tired (I don't sleep >well alone, add to that that it has been storming so badly the past three >nights that the power has gotten knocked out and I live in fear of tornadoes.

you bucked him and expressed all your displeasure and resentfully "let him have his way"

lightly tell...lightly remind

nag nag nag, control control control

I told him as much, anger in my voice

he was mad, you challenged him he got 10000 times madder to win and beat you and dominate you. you went from your kid holding the glasses to 10 minutes later them being broken. dusty, what happened to the glasses?

you caused all of this

i dont know what to say about the switch, im not particularly opposed to corporal punishment, but were you unaware you had the type of man who disciplines with a switch?

read this that i wrote a while back:

http://minarchyblog.wordpress.com/2010/08/19/are-you-being-abused-or-are-you-vying-with-a-man-for-dominance/

2014-06-13T14:46:46+00:00

also, you cannot have a relationship with a high dominance man if you hold grudges over words. they are just words, you tried to dominate him, he doesnt want to hit to establish dominance so he hits with words, instead of backing down you keep challenging him like some bull alpha, escalating and escalating. if you get mad when he gets mad you are challenging and escalating. deal with your own feelings AFTER the crisis passes, NOT while he is mad

2014-06-13T16:11:25+00:00

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soskrood · 2014-06-13T18:57:00+00:00

The discipline issue is huge in a relationship, and if you are aiming to be red pill, then you can't confront him in the moment about his methods. If you object to a particular action, save it for the next day. Never do it in front of the kid. If he did go overboard, trying to scold him about it in the moment won't have an effect - where as a calm discussion later will give him time to reflect on his actions (good or bad). I still think about specific disciplinary decisions years after the fact. By picking a side in the heat of the moment we remember THAT instead of weather or not a particular spanking was too hard.

I've been on the receiving end of that sort of behavior from my wife, and it screams a lack of respect. In order to respect your husband, you must have a united front when dealing with children. In my case, I laid out my reasons why such a punishment was needed and reprimanded her for not having my back, and pointed out that the only reason I had to do this was because she had not been disciplining the kids properly while I was at work. They needed a couple days of harshness to bring them back to their normal cheerful obedient selves. Your behavior in confronting him in that moment tells him that you don't respect his NO, and that your kid also doesn't need to respect his NO. Momma is on their side, not his.

Does your husband enjoy switching your kid? Probably not... but if you had been doing your job then he wouldn't have had to. The other comments are right - he caved because you nagged him about his methods.

Kids do the things you described - come out repeatedly from being put down to bed, interrupting the evening and destroying a chance for intimacy. He probably wanted to watch a show, then have massage -> sex on the couch. A little twerp coming out 3x asking for water doesn't fit those plans.

Rather than criticize his methods, why not tell him that you do want him involved in the child's discipline, and start using a switch (on occasion) yourself to show that you are on board with his methods. You might not like it, but it is far better than being the sole disciplinarian or creating the Mommy = good, Daddy = bad picture that you are trying to paint. I'd recommend apologizing for this lack of respect.

Title	Disaster Right Out Of The Gate
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	11
Comments	176
Date	June 13, 2014 2:01 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/281vad/disaster_right_out_of_the_gate/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/disaster-right-out-of-the-gate.165482 https://theredarchive.com/post/165482

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