In an argument, my boyfriend [24/M] of 6 months said he is a very dominant person and expects me [22/F] to not talk back to him. [X Post from /r/relationship/advice]

FleetingWish · 2015-07-01T22:13:16+00:00

we are both at fault for starting the argument in the first place.

Translation: I don't know how fights get started in my relationship... they just sort of do.

I can be sassy and he's known that from day one.

Translation: I am a bitch and I know it, and he knows it too. It's not my fault if he doesn't like it now, he knew what being with me would be like. I shouldn't have to change for him.

I've always been able to hold my own.

Translation: I don't need him for anything, I am just fine on my own. Whether or not he is in my life is of no consequence to me.

But I do deserve the same respect he is demanding.

Translation: If he wants me to not talk back to him, he should not talk back to me either. In fact we should never say anything to eachother, ever.

I told him flat out that if he wants someone to just roll over and never argue back, then that's not me.

Translation: He should know I am always going to fight for my point of view, instead of considering his.

I'm his partner, not his subordinate.

Translation: My entire image of myself is rapped up in fighting for what I want. If I let him have what he wants I will think myself as weak for having not fought hard enough.

He apologized and said that he isn't used to being with someone who can make their own decisions

Translation: You are a woman who your boyfriend needs to placate to get along with. He will tell you what you want to hear.

I took that to mean he is used to having to make all of the decisions and has probably been in a very traditional gender role in his past relationships.

Translaton: Woman placated; crisis averted.

He said he will work on being more respectful as long as I do the same.

Translation: He said that there was something I needed to work on here.

And what can I do to remind him of his promise to work on it before it turns into an argument again?

Translation: I've already forgotten that I was asked to do something for my relationship. So... how do I stop him from being a big meanie again, and get him to do what he said he was going to do? How do I make sure he always knows I am always right?

StingrayVC · 2015-07-01T19:37:32+00:00

but what in the world do I do if this comes up again? And what can I do to remind him of his promise to work on it before it turns into an argument again?

You can talk back again and risk losing him or you can do what he asked you to do.

And what can I do to remind him of his promise to work on it before it turns into an argument again?

You can behave in a manner in which it doesn't need to come up again.

Look, there is difference between saying your piece and being disrespectful in front of your friends.

But I do deserve the same respect he is demanding.

Why? Have you paid him this same respect that you are demanding or are you,"sassy" and "able to hold your own"? Being sassy and having a discussion about a disagreement are not the same.

If you want a dominant man in bed he's going to be dominant in the world. You're not going to get one without the other.

sugarcrush · 2015-07-01T20:19:57+00:00

You can be sassy without being rude/disrespectful. I playfully tease my husband and give him a hard time occasionally, but it's all clearly in jest and I know when to stop. And a big part of that is NOT DURING ARGUMENTS! Even if it started as a joke at first, as soon as you felt it taking a wrong turn that's when you needed to stop. Take this as a lesson for the future.

I've always been able to hold my own

You are in a relationship now, so it's more important that you work as a team and communicate effectively than hold your own. Remember, if you are more concerned with holding your own, you might just end up being alone.

I think you should talk to him more about what his expectations for you are, and consider if you are capable of meeting them. Honestly from what you wrote here you sound like the "strong independent woman who don't need no man" stereotype. If that's what makes you happy in life, go for it, and I sincerely mean that. I have girl friends who are more dominant as well and they are in happy relationships.

If you want more RPW type advice I think it would be helpful to add more information. What respect is he demanding? How was he being disrespectful to you? Why do you feel as if he is asking you to just roll over? Submissive =/= no voice in the relationship at all (unless you're into that sort of thing). Personally, I share my opinion in a respectful manner (key word, no sass when doing this!) but leave the ultimate decision up to him. If you are interested in trying that out, that would be my advice for the next time this sort of situation comes up. Share what you think the best course of action would be, then shut up and let him take care of it. No need to remind him of any "promises".

In any case, you seem aware of your faults and willing to work on them, so congrats on that part.

[deleted] · 2015-07-01T20:13:24+00:00

You sound incompatible to me.

You seem to be proud of your "sass" and ability to bicker and carry on, and that simply isn't what men want to be around. Especially men who are dominant. It's tiring and insulting. Sure, maybe you're capable of keeping up, but what on earth is the point? Do you enjoy arguing with and emasculating him in front of people? Cause I promise he doesn't enjoy it one bit.

If you feel that he's not being respectful, leave him. If you can't stand the idea of being sweet and supportive and always on his side, leave him. If you decide to change your behaviour and be the kind of woman he actually wants, then stick around here and take some advice.

[deleted] · 2015-07-01T22:46:40+00:00

Either submit to this man or leave him.

nomnompuffs · 2015-07-01T22:25:23+00:00

The argument was over something EXTREMELY stupid. We were with two of our friends and we are both at fault for starting the argument in the first place. I can be sassy and he's known that from day one.

Your post makes me frown deeply from the first paragraph. I didn't read anything beyond that portion I've quoted there. Why did you come here? To confirm some biases you already hold? Sure: I'll help you.

Why are you arguing with your man over something you acknowledge is "EXTREMELY stupid", emphasis yours? Is that what you are supposed to be doing?
Why are you arguing with your man publicly instead of talking it over privately? This one is not even Redpill; it's basic relationship common sense. You don't argue in public. A relationship that takes its issues public is doomed to failure. It's no different from the idiots who let their relationship leak onto Facebook. This one isn't even "Redpill". It's commonly acknowledged stupidity.
You can't both be at fault for starting the argument. If he was responsible for it, you'd have readily stated that it was his fault, so the fact that you're using "We-speak" means it was probably your fault.
"I can be sassy": Why are you brazen-facedly and almost smugly admitting to a character flaw, demonstrating the "I am what I am, and if you don't like it f*** off" attitude? Is this a problem-solving attitude? Is this attitude, even outside of Redpill submissiveness, conducive to harmony in relationships? You think it's cute to hold your vices high in the air and wear them like a breastplate?
"He's known that from day one": And perhaps he also assumed goodwill on your part, and took it for granted, that you wanted the relationship to work, so he assumed you wouldn't dig your heels in, and that you were willing to change? I don't think he "knew this from day one", and also didn't expect effort on your part to work to bring out your better nature

So basically, I don't know what you're expecting. Most of your problems don't even need Redpill to tell you that you're just badly behaved, insufferable and difficult to abide. Any moron could have looked at this and told you the same, Redpill or not. What's your goal?

I got all of these terrible red flags from just reading the FIRST HALF of your FIRST paragraph. Tell me why I should read any further.

Aerobus · 2015-07-01T22:31:53+00:00

You want actual advice that will help you be a better person and avoid situations like this? Then here it is.

I don't care about your argument. Neither should you. You need to analyze your own behavior and understand why you contributed to the problem. You can change yourself, not your partner.

The argument was over something EXTREMELY stupid.

Why? Do you like arguing over stupid things. Learn to control your emotions.

I can be sassy and he's known that from day one.

Does he like the fact that your sassy, or does acting sassy annoy him? If it annoys him, don't act sassy. If you're incapable of not acting sassy, find a new partner instead of ruining this man's life.

I understand the need for respect and I was probably out of line for dishing it right back and my whole "you started it" mentality.

That mentality is immature. Good luck keeping a respectable man around while acting that way.

And what can I do to remind him of his promise to work on it before it turns into an argument again?

Nothing. You can't change this man. If he is keen on changing his behavior he will. Focus on yourself.

[deleted] · 2015-07-01T20:21:12+00:00

I can be sassy
I've always been able to hold my own.
this all going down in front of our friends

You sound like a massive warning klaxon. Those are polite ways of describing terrible character traits. There's no way I would put up with this behaviour from a woman, and no decent man would either.

I grew up seeing my mother be a "badly behaved, insufferable, difficult to abide woman

You sound like one yourself.

If you want a dominant man, you are going to have to behave properly outside of the bedroom too.

I also take umbrage with the fact that you view RP men as disrespectful. I respect my GF. I do not belittle, publicly criticise or humiliate her like you did to your BF. She affords me the same level of respect.

ludovician · 2015-07-02T03:55:18+00:00

Your words are giving away more than you know. I'm going to translate the stuff that I can see between the lines. It's going to be harsh; your perspective also has some validity, so this is just the other perspective - please take it as constructive intent! Suggestions at the end.

The argument was over something EXTREMELY stupid. We were with two of our friends and we are both at fault for starting the argument in the first place.

"This argument should never have happened, but it wasn't my fault."

I can be sassy and he's known that from day one. I've always been able to hold my own.

"And even if it was my fault, he should have predicted it. Also, I have a tendency to assume a defensive position in arguments."

After we got alone to talk about the argument, he said that he is a very dominant person and expects me to not talk back to him. He has always been dominant in bed and I love that, but I have never seen that outside of the bedroom.

"I like him being dominant except when I want to be dominant."

I think he was mostly upset about this all going down in front of our friends, although it was more bickering than actually arguing. I understand the need for respect and I was probably out of line for dishing it right back and my whole "you started it" mentality.

"I know what I did wrong, but I'm about to use the word 'but' to negate everything I just said..."

But I do deserve the same respect he is demanding.

"Also, when he was telling me how I had made him feel I was focused on how he had made me feel instead."

I told him flat out that if he wants someone to just roll over and never argue back, then that's not me. I'm his partner, not his subordinate.

"I took his request for public respect to be a request for absolute submission, because that makes it much easier for me to feel justified in denying it."

After more talking he apologized and said that he isn't used to being with someone who can make their own decisions and that he always has to take care of his girlfriends.

"I got him to back down. He isn't used to that. Did I mention that I really like him being dominant? Honestly I do."

I took that to mean he is used to having to make all of the decisions and has probably been in a very traditional gender role in his past relationships.

"In the past, he's had this traditional gender role. Now of course it has to change."

He said he will work on being more respectful as long as I do the same. So I get that old habits die hard.

"He still wants me to change. But I'm going to focus on the changes I want from him..."

I think I handled it well this time, but what in the world do I do if this comes up again? And what can I do to remind him of his promise to work on it before it turns into an argument again?

"My behaviour was absolutely fine this time, but I'm worried about his. Also, I don't trust that he really means the things I persuaded him to say."

Okay. So, there's the harsh translation.

If you want him to be dominant in the bedroom, you have to allow him a level of dominance in the relationship, too. What you're doing here, persuading him to back down and essentially nagging him into submission, is emasculating him. If you keep going down this route, you'll end up with an unhappy partner and way less fun in the bedroom...

he always has to take care of his girlfriends

...assuming you get to keep him, because it sounds like this is a man with options.

A lot of that translation above isn't even an RP perspective, just a human one from someone trained in seeing through the language people use.

Take some time out to reflect on what you could have done differently. You won't be able to forcibly change him. The only thing you can do is set up a different situation, and steer it a different way, and that will mean changing your behaviour, rather than his.

I've just read your edit, and here's a better way that it could have gone:

Me: The pizza man came here and those kids told him no one ordered a pizza so he drove off before I could catch him.

SO: Why didn't you tell him we were here?

Me: I tried to catch him, but he drove off before I could.

SO: What the f*** kind of pizza man leaves without delivering the pizza?

Me (Recognizing that the bf is pissed off and hungry, and supporting him): Yeah. What an idiot.

Then you call the pizza company together, they phone the driver and he turns round and delivers your pizza.

[deleted] · 2015-07-01T23:55:41+00:00

If your boyfriend is as dominant as you say he is then he is already looking for a new girlfriend. As he should be. I have read the full thread (yes, including your edit) and determined that you are a lost cause.

But don't worry, I have never heard of cats having a problem with "sassy" ladies.

peppepcheerio · 2015-07-02T02:57:11+00:00

Take his side. Have your man's back.

belindiesq · 2015-07-01T22:16:06+00:00

[edits for wording/clarity -- it was a lot of 'tell him' that sounded like 'instruct him' but was meant to be more 'inform him'.]

Maybe I'm too late to the party, but I'll chime in. I suggest talking about how [his being dominant makes you feel]. Saying 'shut the f up' is not loving, and I suspect that's the line that turned you off. It's important that he know that.

[if you don't mind a dominant partner] You could tell him [it would feel better to have him put his foot down] on the banter calmly and kindly. It's fine for him to be firm as in: 'we are not discussing this any more', without being rude to you.

I think politeness to one another is the cornerstone to any relationship with a power imbalance, it keeps people from feeling attacked.

[deleted] · 2015-07-02T04:27:03+00:00

Man here, I personally don't mind discussing matters, as long as they're not petty and not with company around. My SO has done this a couple of times and it drives me up the wall. There's a time and a place, if people are around then it is not the time nor the place. You can argue while being civil and mature, too (not you OP, but people in general). If your edit is exactly how it went, then you need to split up with him. If it's not and you were exaggerating the story, then you're only lying to yourself and are in this subreddit for Karma/fake attention. My guess is that you left out a couple of things in your recollection of how it went, maybe there was a very rude tone in your voice, I don't know though because I wasn't there. If he did react the way he did without warrant, then I suggest finding a more mature man, otherwise I suggest you work on your own demeanor. RP men absolutely hate sassy/ratchet/hoodrat women, the kind that are always chewing gum loudly that tell people off. Being loud and obnoxious is not lady like, men love soft feminine voices (I can vouch). I can go on writing a novel about this but I'll just end it here.

Title	In an argument, my boyfriend [24/M] of 6 months said he is a very dominant person and expects me [22/F] to not talk back to him. [X Post from /r/relationship/advice]
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	12
Comments	76
Date	July 1, 2015 7:21 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/3bsbzq/in_an_argument_my_boyfriend_24m_of_6_months_said/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/in-an-argument-my-boyfriend-24m-of-6-months-said.166342 https://theredarchive.com/post/166342

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