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Depression and Dread

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DEERinRPHeadlights
November 14, 2018
9 upvotes
askMRP

I am interested to hear the views of those who are more informed and more knowledgable on the subject of depression and how dread relates to it in my situation.

I’m in Dread Level 2. However, I may as well be in dread level 8+.

u/Red-Curious has an excellent post on signs your wife might have a personality disorder. I can’t link as on app now due to OPSEC.

Background and how my question applies to my situation. I’ve been all up in my wife’s frame and my faggotry knows no bounds. My wife has had depression for years. My NMMNG deceptive history has compounded this and I regularly get told that it’s my fault or I’ve made it worse due to my actions.

2 years ago I got too close to a younger coworker (more background in this weeks OYS). Wife calls it an emotional affair. It’s not the first one in her view. I still work with the coworker.

This week I was faced with what could be a shitty comfort compliance test. Essentially, don’t go out drinking with buddies because i don’t know where you’ll be or if you’ll be with coworker and I need you here because of recent stressful events” I went drinking with buddies.

The fallout was: You had an emotional affair. I can’t compare with her. Why am I not good enough. Doesn’t have the energy after looking after kids to do anything for herself. I needed you here so I wouldn’t stress about where you were. You’re always at the gym (my stats will prove this to be false).

Does depression have a detrimental effect on the effectiveness of dread? Is there another path forward?

For the record, she is receiving professional help and medication.


Post Information
Title Depression and Dread
Author DEERinRPHeadlights
Upvotes 9
Comments 40
Date 14 November 2018 12:41 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/203791
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/9wuzg1/depression_and_dread/
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dread gameframecloseNMMNG
Comments

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red18 points19 points  (9 children) | Copy

Best thing I did was get rid of my 140# boat anchor that is my wife. Soon to be ex-wife.

I am happier.

Kids are happier.

Work is better.

Life is better.

Endless supply of girls who are happy to keep you company.

And she is still depressed.

Dont stick around with a low value woman.

Period.

[–]An_Actual_Politician6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

And OP - if you're worried about looking like the bad guy for divorcing someone with depression, guess what - no matter what the circumstances you'll be viewed as the bad guy in a divorce. That's how they work regardless of why.

So apply DGAF here regarding what other people might think, then ask yourself what you want to do.

[–]DEERinRPHeadlights[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

And OP - if you're worried about looking like the bad guy for divorcing someone with depression, guess what - no matter what the circumstances you'll be viewed as the bad guy in a divorce. That's how they work regardless of why.

I’ve come to realise this. I have the advantage of already being viewed as the bad guy for previously being deceptive.

So apply DGAF here regarding what other people might think, then ask yourself what you want to do.

This is where I struggle. I’ve avoided what I want to do for years.

[–]lololasaurus0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Honestly, as I read your posts it strikes me that you seem extremely needful of validation for your decision. Self doubts? Justifying it or rationalizing it for your conscience? I certainly don't know.

I fight this all the time as well as I take the opposite path - not (initiating at least) divorcing a woman who has functionally left already because of what seems like silly religious rules to most, so I'm not saying this from a position of "lol ur a faggot hur hur". Both ways are hard.

For the OP, it may be true that it's just unsalvageable. But it sounds like he needs to put this own work in, or he'll be in the same situation again shortly afterward.

Just some thoughts. I don't know you, just a few posts you've written, but maybe the feedback will be helpful in your mission. Or maybe not. At least it was free.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

If you think for one second I do not doubt myself about kicking the mother of my kids, my high school sweetheart and the once love of my life to the curb.....

Then you my friend are one evil mofo.

Seeking validation? No.

Talking it out on here, running it thru my head, seeing it written down?

That validates my choice.

Also her continued behavior, but I digress.

Having balls is one thing. Using them is something else.

Doubt?

Hell yes, but not as much as one time.

Regret?

Never.

Fear?

Absolutely.

[–]RuleZeroDADRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sometimes you just need to clear the mechanism.

Scream into the void. Sometimes it talks back.

Never feel a need to DEER to us. The fact that we don't really care is the best part. I have no desire nor authority to judge anything you do to help you process your grief.

It needs to be dealt with, and that's it.

[–]RedPill-BlackLotusRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

And fucking cry if you god dam want to!

I love you man, don't ever change.

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sometimes we need guys like u/red-sfpplus to remind newbies that divorce is a feature, not a bad side effect.

We are men comparing notes. Without all options we'd be an echo chamber.

[–]DEERinRPHeadlights[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I have no doubt that you/ kids are happier and work/ life is better. For me, the grass does appear greener but I recognise that I am not a high value man yet. I have a plan to get there fighting every step of the way. The grass won’t be greener otherwise.

As I’m getting there I’ll give time for the 1000 foot rope to tighten but I’m fully aware that this may never happen and I may ultimately have the same realisation.

[–]raywinstonsaysyouwot0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I needed to read something like this today.

[–]The_LitzRed Beret5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy

I am in a similar situation, wife has anxiety issues. Ongoing treatment and medication.

The best tool in our situation was for me to lead the household better. I don't want to lump depression and anxiety in the same basket, but it does take a load off their shoulders when you are making decisions and leading the household. Most people actually need to be told what to do. They will never admit it, even fight you on it, but there is some comfort in just following orders instead of trying to figure out what the next step is.

Dread with such a person is also a hit and miss affair. Like you, my wife busted me being too friendly and inappropriate with a young (approx 15 years younger and single) family friend. This dread did not ignite the passion, but made her bury her head and caused more anxiety.

But there was a catch, I was a drunk captain at the time. Dread without being a man of value and randomly applied is just a massive dumpster fire with no positive result.

MRP is a tool box, you need to take the tools you need. Dread in my case makes her stick her head in the sand and pray for things to get better. I get better results with lighter dread than heavier dread.

How you apply dread. If it is forced from your side it comes across as trying too hard. Dread her more subtly. Have a mission you need to do. It must take you out of the house for long periods. Her hamster will do the rest.

Your specific example is a difficult one. The dread is not the problem, it is that she doesn't trust you at all. You will have to be firm with her in this regard and tell her to stop creating drama over the past.

But the key to all this, you must be a man of value. She needs an oak to tell her things are cool if she brings her best to the table.

[–]capn_barnacles2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is very well said. I too get the bury head in sand response. It's better to focus on being fun and awesome, and bringing her into that, and keep the dread very light and very indirect.

[–]FoxShitNasty831 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks the_litz this accurately describes issues with me right now.

[–]DEERinRPHeadlights[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

The best tool in our situation was for me to lead the household better. I don't want to lump depression and anxiety in the same basket, but it does take a load off their shoulders when you are making decisions and leading the household. Most people actually need to be told what to do. They will never admit it, even fight you on it, but there is some comfort in just following orders instead of trying to figure out what the next step is.

At the risk of sounding autistic, can you give me some examples. I earn the money, pay the bills, do various chores (as if I was single) plan stuff for family to do.

Dread with such a person is also a hit and miss affair. Like you, my wife busted me being too friendly and inappropriate with a young (approx 15 years younger and single) family friend. This dread did not ignite the passion, but made her bury her head and caused more anxiety.

But there was a catch, I was a drunk captain at the time. Dread without being a man of value and randomly applied is just a massive dumpster fire with no positive result.

Sounds very familiar. I was a literal drunk at the time so not high value.

Your specific example is a difficult one. The dread is not the problem, it is that she doesn't trust you at all. You will have to be firm with her in this regard and tell her to stop creating drama over the past.

Yeah I do need to say this. And be ready for the incredible drama the first time I do.

But the key to all this, you must be a man of value. She needs an oak to tell her things are cool if she brings her best to the table.

I’m massively failing this one.

[–]The_LitzRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I earn the money, pay the bills, do various chores (as if I was single) plan stuff for family to do.

These things are Adult 101, they are not over and above items.

Being a better leader at home is owning your decisions, even the wrong ones. In my case being certain about things and not second guessing myself out loud worked well.

Stupid example:

- Bad

Her: Is the front door locked?

Me: Yeah (after thinking about it for a few seconds), unless the kids went outside again after I locked it. I didn't check it again before coming to bed......I am sure it is still locked. You didn't see the kids go outside again did you?(unsure)

- Better

Her: Is the front door locked?

Me: Yes. (Certain, no hesitation)

- Best

Her: Goodnight Litz. ZZZZZZZZZZ

​

Knowing she does not have to even ask because the Captain has his shipped squared away for the evening inspires confidence in you as a leader.

​

Just a basic example, fire away if you need more.

​

[–]matrixtospartanatLVRed Beret4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

I read your post from 206 days ago, 137 days ago, and today.

They all read relatively the same.

7 months in MRP and you’re still having the same problems and at Dread level 2?

I’d ask what the fuck is wrong with you but I already know...

Fuckarounditis and a lack of core belief in the praxeology here. Yes, it’s a toolbox, but you won’t seriously engage in the process long enough to learn how to understand how to use the tools and what they do individually.

Your wife is not any more or less broken than a lot of wives here.

But SHE DOESN’T FUCKING MATTER!

Do you get that?

Until you do, you will continue to fail, be at Dread level 2, and put up a similar post every 3-6 months about the same shit; your wife.

Ok, I’ve been drinking, got a negative, life-changing medical diagnosis. I’m throwing a pity party for a day or two, and then I’ll get up and kick it’s ass. But whiskey, gin, tequila, scotch, and rum are coursing through my veins and I’m not really feeling the pain. So...

WAKE THE FUCK UP YOU WORTHLESS PIECE OF SHIT.

I cannot fucking believe you’ve been doing this shit for nine months and you are on Dread level 2.

You’re not even trying.

And NO! This post is all about your wife and yet, MRP really has nothing to do with your depressed, harpy, little bitch.

The toolbox is the same. The tools are many. But there ISN’T A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT TOOLBOXES BASED ON THE CAR (wife) YOU HAVE.

There is one Dread progression. There is ONE SIDEBAR.

NOTHING FUCKING CHANGES because your special snowflake is depressed, or because my special snowflake is a hypergamous cunt, or because someone else’s snowflake is a harpy cunt.

AND YOU, you little mother-fucker, piss me off. I unplugged at 55 years of age.

55! You have 20 fucking years to do this shit that I don’t. This whole thing is a gift to you, but you won’t fucking open (swallow) it.

You are not special. Your wife is not special. Your situation is not unique.

Now, engage in the process. Start over. You haven’t done anything.

Dread level 2.

Don’t post that shit again. It makes you look pathetic and turns your post into a joke.

Let’s review.

You cannot fix your wife.

You cannot fix your marriage.

What can you fix?

YOU.

If you have any other answer, that’s the answer to why you are still failing.

Now, what is the answer?

Quit fucking around.

Engage the sidebar, one hour a day, 6 days a week,

3 months.

80 hours of work.

No more shit, whiny posts.

I look forward to your 90 day FR about what you’ve done and how it’s worked for you.

Now STFU.

GET TO FUCKING WORK.

Or GTFO.

[–]DEERinRPHeadlights[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I read your post from 206 days ago, 137 days ago, and today. They all read relatively the same. 7 months in MRP and you’re still having the same problems and at Dread level 2? I’d ask what the fuck is wrong with you but I already know... Fuckarounditis and a lack of core belief in the praxeology here. Yes, it’s a toolbox, but you won’t seriously engage in the process long enough to learn how to understand how to use the tools and what they do individually. Your wife is not any more or less broken than a lot of wives here. But SHE DOESN’T FUCKING MATTER! Do you get that? Until you do, you will continue to fail, be at Dread level 2, and put up a similar post every 3-6 months about the same shit; your wife.

Firstly, Fuck you. I read this post and started to reply, then I read it again. And again. You don’t fucking know me. So how the fuck did you get this so accurate. Man my first reply was gonna say what I had been working on. But the actual truth is I’ve been working on excuses.

Ok, I’ve been drinking, got a negative, life-changing medical diagnosis.

Sorry to hear that.

WAKE THE FUCK UP YOU WORTHLESS PIECE OF SHIT. AND YOU, you little mother-fucker, piss me off. I unplugged at 55 years of age. 55! You have 20 fucking years to do this shit that I don’t. This whole thing is a gift to you, but you won’t fucking open (swallow) it. You are not special. Your wife is not special. Your situation is not unique. Engage the sidebar, one hour a day, 6 days a week, 3 months. 80 hours of work. No more shit, whiny posts. I look forward to your 90 day FR about what you’ve done and how it’s worked for you. Now STFU. GET TO FUCKING WORK. Or GTFO.

You're so fucking right. I know what I need to do. I wont be whining again. Talk to you in 85 more days. Thanks

[–]TaipanshimshonRed Beret7 points8 points  (7 children) | Copy

While depression as a medical condition sucks - Her using you are a scapegoat for her negative feelings is a she problem.

She feels like she isn’t good enough ( she isn’t , is she?) She knows this.

But she uses it as a crutch to blame you rather than herself or the depression.

Your job is to be awesome so she can get lost in your awesomeness and not be depressed.

My guess is that she is basically an energy vampire.

Your job is to stop letting her drain you emotionally.

Stop being in her negative frame. Start there.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

energy vampire

Thank you coining this term. So simple and accurate.

[–]TaipanshimshonRed Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Read it somewhere.

Maybe rollo?

Basically describes depressed women who make it your fault. Also borderline girls

[–]BigAjax6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

Athol Kay

[–]TaipanshimshonRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yup. Something towards the early sidebar

[–]RedPillCoach0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's easy for the energy vampire- they just have to stop sucking.

But the victim has to fight for his life.

[–]DEERinRPHeadlights[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

While depression as a medical condition sucks - Her using you are a scapegoat for her negative feelings is a she problem.

It should be a she problem. I’ve allowed it to be conditioned into my problem.

She feels like she isn’t good enough ( she isn’t , is she?)
Is this rhetorical?

Your job is to be awesome so she can get lost in your awesomeness and not be depressed.

Ok I gotta ask a stupid question. I know what I enjoy and what I consider awesome. That’s what I want. Of all the things that come to mind, she doesn’t like any of them. How can she get lost in this awesomeness if she doesn’t see it as awesome?

[–]TaipanshimshonRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Maybe she can’t and you need to come to terms with the fact that you did not choose a good spouse for yourself

[–]hystericalbonding3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy

Does depression have a detrimental effect on the effectiveness of dread?

You're dead in the water.

Dread is a byproduct of being attractive and having options, not an implement to be wielded with predictable outcome. It's not something you do to her. It's not for her or about her. Things will change. Whether that makes the marriage better, worse, or the same is had to predict.

[–]DEERinRPHeadlights[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

You're dead in the water - great!

Dread is a byproduct of being attractive and having options, not an implement to be wielded with predictable outcome. It's not something you do to her. It's not for her or about her. Things will change. Whether that makes the marriage better, worse, or the same is had to predict.

I get that it’s a byproduct. Maybe I could have phrased the question differently.

The outcomes may not be predictable but there is a pattern. As you become a more high value man, the dread increases and the rope tightens.

[–]hystericalbonding0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The outcomes may not be predictable but there is a pattern

Women are usually happier when their husbands are attractive and own their shit, but AWALT does not mean all women are the same. Anxiety and depression affect how someone interprets things. Both can be worsened if the feeling of security in a relationship is threatened. This seems obvious. Why ask the question here?

[–]PersaeusRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

insert the > character to copy previous thread

[–]DEERinRPHeadlights[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

insert the > character to copy previous thread

Thanks

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

If that’s how she’s always been, that’s the way she’ll remain.

[–]SepeanRed Beret5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

I regularly get told that it’s my fault or I’ve made it worse due to my actions.

So. Fucking. What. You don't know if that's true, and even if it was, what does that even mean? Should you atone for that, be a good little beta for her and stay in her frame? Do you think that will make you happy?

2 years ago I got too close to a younger coworker (more background in this weeks OYS). Wife calls it an emotional affair.

In her frame much? You're a shithole for what, doing nothing?

This week I was faced with what could be a shitty comfort compliance test. Essentially, don’t go out drinking with buddies because i don’t know where you’ll be or if you’ll be with coworker and I need you here because of recent stressful events” I went drinking with buddies.

Good call.

The fallout was: You had an emotional affair.

Oh no, another shit test. I wish we knew of a way to handle those...

I can’t compare with her. Why am I not good enough. Doesn’t have the energy after looking after kids to do anything for herself.

Maybe the low energy?

I needed you here so I wouldn’t stress about where you were. You’re always at the gym (my stats will prove this to be false).

It's not about it being true or false. It's a shit test. Handle it like a shit test. Your wife doesn't say stuff to you because it reflects how she feels, it isn't some guide to a happier her or a better relationship. It's mostly the opposite, in fact. It's shit testing, it's traps that will draw you into her frame and tank your marriage. Don't listen to your wife.

Does depression have a detrimental effect on the effectiveness of dread? Is there another path forward?

Maybe depression has a detrimental effect, but it has a detrimental effect in every circumstance. There's not another path forward. You're at the point where you're considering if you can't go out with buddies because of her shit, that's crazy. Staying home like a good little beta with a depressed wife is certainly not better than being alpha with a depressed wife.

What you're describing sounds like what everyone went through, depressed wife or not. It's just regular shit testing. She might be more depressed than the average wife over your changes, but it's not like she'd stop being depressed if you stayed beta.

So stay the course. When you alpha up, she could be become a horny, submissive, depressed wife, which is certainly better than a frigid, bitchy, depressed wife.

Maybe her interest in the future alpha you will give her the happiness and motivation to get out of her rut. Or maybe she'll stay depressed, in which case you have to figure out what you want to do with your life.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

So fucking what

Coming out of a relationship where I was told the same thing and constantly gaslit, I can empathize with OP

Fucking sucks man. You really start to believe it, esp if you are trying to save the marriage.

You do not see it until you are afar.

[–]DEERinRPHeadlights[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

So. Fucking. What. You don't know if that's true, and even if it was, what does that even mean? Should you atone for that, be a good little beta for her and stay in her frame? Do you think that will make you happy?

It’s hard to stay out of the negativity. How am I supposed to stay fun and awesome when the mother of my kids is weeping about something or blaming me for something I did wrong months / years in the past. I’m struggling to see how STFU, AA or AM works in these situations. Maybe WISNIFG fogging and negative assertion would help.

In her frame much? You're a shithole for what, doing nothing?

I recognise I’m all up in her frame.

Oh no, another shit test. I wish we knew of a way to handle those...

Yeah this is a shit test. One I’ve no idea how to handle.

Maybe depression has a detrimental effect, but it has a detrimental effect in every circumstance. There's not another path forward. You're at the point where you're considering if you can't go out with buddies because of her shit, that's crazy. Staying home like a good little beta with a depressed wife is certainly not better than being alpha with a depressed wife.

What you're describing sounds like what everyone went through, depressed wife or not. It's just regular shit testing. She might be more depressed than the average wife over your changes, but it's not like she'd stop being depressed if you stayed beta.

I’ve failed at this for years. I guess I didn’t want to be a catalyst for more depression. But yeah my “compliance” hasn’t worked so would non compliance be much worse? Probably not much.

So stay the course. When you alpha up, she could be become a horny, submissive, depressed wife, which is certainly better than a frigid, bitchy, depressed wife.

Ha!

[–]screechhaterRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You are giving too many fucks. Just as she “did not” sign up to be with an unattractive man, her health is not your responsibility

The stronger you show your determination, the sooner she will stop the bullshit.

Your “fear” of her words or actions slow you down and keep you in her control.

She will not give a fuck where you go once she starts draing your balls.

Stop fapping. Stop the porn.

Make damned sure to lift.

STFU

Sidebar

Timing and tact are everything. Applying dread takes careful course of action. Ratchet it up slowly. Being consistent is key especially coupled with good leadership

mine- she’s starting to act like a happy go lucky teen, and I don’t hear much about the anxiety or depression shit, and is guess what ? Slowly increasing the balls draining to keep me satisfied

[–]TheThirdT0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I am glad she is getting help, but her problems are her own. There is nothing you can do to fix her. Don't stop pursuing your goals or living your life.

[–]RedPill-BlackLotusRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

All you can do is provide the latitude she needs to deal with her own shit. It's not your job to fix her.

There has to be a limit to your giving because there is no limit to her taking.

The rope either snaps tight or you cut it. Only you know when to cut.

[–]RedPillCoach0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

NMMNG deceptive history has compounded this and I regularly get told that it’s my fault or I’ve made it worse due to my actions

Please explain further. Are the NMMNG people saying you are making it worse? Or are you repeating your wife's complaints? That would be important for us to know.

Does depression have a detrimental effect on the effectiveness of dread?

DING! DING! An A++ winning question is not something we see every week and this qualifies.

First, I would talk to her therapist for a few minutes and ask him/her how you should handle the fact that your self-improvement program seems to be making her freak out. This is easy to do if you take your wife to a session and clear it to just use the first 10-15 minutes for your question. Doing this is a strong, power move that puts you in the leadership position and, if done with loving kindness, puts you in the position of the good and concerned husband who is trying to help.

Then SHE can work out HER issues with HER therapist.

You are allowed to go out 1-2 nights a week with friends so long as your home/kid/work duties are kept up. This thing that you are allowed to do is being met with resistance and more depression and it is HER issue to deal with. You probably want to make it clear that you want to help her with HER issue but this is for her and her therapist, not her and her husband. IMHO.

[–]DEERinRPHeadlights[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Please explain further. Are the NMMNG people saying you are making it worse? Or are you repeating your wife's complaints? That would be important for us to know.

I’m repeating her comments and not those of any NMMNG forums. I’ve hid shit from her. Me going to see a shrink for some stress, drinking and hiding empty bottles, hell I even bought a motorbike and stored it at a friend’s house without telling her.

First, I would talk to her therapist for a few minutes and ask him/her how you should handle the fact that your self-improvement program seems to be making her freak out. This is easy to do if you take your wife to a session and clear it to just use the first 10-15 minutes for your question. Doing this is a strong, power move that puts you in the leadership position and, if done with loving kindness, puts you in the position of the good and concerned husband who is trying to help.

This could be a challenge. I may have burned this bridge as I questioned the therapist’s credentials and felt that they had confirmation bias from listening to her telling her side of the story. Her therapist “was there for her when I wasn’t... drunk......affair.....faggot...”

Had I done the work, I'd have been able to handle this shit test better.

[–]RedPillCoach2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

The best time to start doing the work was 6 months ago.

The next best time to start is right now.



You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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