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[FR] Main event begins?

Reddit View
September 6, 2017

In my OYS I have been talking about looking better then I ever have, mentally feeling better then I ever have and becoming involved and doing things for myself now. My wife has been noticing and staying quiet. She has been shit testing like crazy and overall has had a shit attitude not just to me but the kids as well.

Last night she stayed quiet no longer. I have been getting hard no's and withdrawing my time and attention the last couple of weeks. Not in a butthurt way at all but in a your loss way. I havent been a dick either just busy. Last night was no different. I tried to initiate got a hard no and grabbed my book and gave her a kiss and said I am not real tired I'm going to read for a bit. She stammered and finally asked if we could talk. All she said was "whats going on?" I replied, I am going to need more detail then that. Thats when she lost it. Waterworks unloaded, sobbing, etc. She said "that right there", "I don't know you anymore", "I don't trust you, I live with Jekyll and Hyde". I let her keep talking because there weren't any questions to answer.

In a nutshell she expressed that the OPSEC I had done and she found out about has ruined her trust in me. My response to that was, yes I did that but I am not in that mental place anymore and I am over it. Her response was I dont believe you. I just fogged by saying I can see how that would break your trust but I am not in that place anymore. This infuriated her and escalated the tears.

Her second statement was to bring up the coworker who was flirting with me and texting. Nothing happened and I never intend for it to at this current spot. However, the wife saw the texts and has been sitting on them. This is where she got overly dramatic by flipping on the lights and glaring at me. Asking me who this girl was etc. My response was, nothing happened but I am a man, you have expressed previously that sex and affection are the only things you feel you have control of in this marriage. I dont want to cheat on you but now you see that I do have options. I can not continue to give my time and attention to someone who clearly is so unattracted to me. This was followed up by hysterics, way more sobbing and her admitting that she looked through my phone. This was also followed up by, "jesus christ is this some psych 101 bullshit??!!"

Third item she brought up was a charge for a lawyers consult. She knew I had talked to a lawyer a year ago to discuss options. I had a follow up consult with my lawyer to make sure everything was still in line. This was where she really lost it. She flat out asked me if she needed to get a lawyer. "I said you do what you need to do. If the question is do I want to divorce you then the answer is no, I would have left a long time ago." Her response was that it doesnt matter anyway because she can't leave, she wouldnt have anywhere to go and she doesnt want to leave the kids.

After all that she proceeded to tell me how she doesnt know me anymore and doesnt trust me. She stated how unhappy she is and doesnt know if she can ever get past everything that has happened and is happening to us. Today she has gone completely silent, which I expected and I am doing business as usual and will continue to be a fun guy. I know this is only the beginning and this may very well drag on for a week or more.

The long and the short is that she bottled everything in from when I walked out weeks ago and she unleashed it all last evening. I let her talk until the hamster ran itself tired. I doubt I handled most of it correctly but I know I did better then in the past. Did I stay in my frame? That would imply I have a strong frame to stay in. Probably not but I felt I stayed in what frame I have. I know it was a shit show and I know I could have done better. When she was finally done talking and her sobs lowered themselves to a snivel I put my arm around her and hugged her, kissed her on the cheek and held her for a minute. I then let go, told her I loved her and went downstairs for a bit. I do not intend to cave and placate her but at the same time I do not want to set myself back to the beginning again.

Post Information
Title [FR] Main event begins?
Author RPWolf
Upvotes 12
Comments 68
Date 06 September 2017 05:05 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Original Link
Similar Posts

Red Pill terms found in post:
hard nobutthurtframehamstershit test

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (25 children) | Copy

I am going to need more detail then that

The fuck kind of sentence is that? Are you a cyborg?

I dont want to cheat on you but now you see that I do have options.

If you have to say it, you aren't doing it right.

Here's an idea: Lead

Lead her to a better place where she feels it's the two of you vs the world as opposed to being against each other.

She should bring balance and peace to your life, not this bullshit insanity.

Don't talk to her like she is some retarded computer program that requires formal awkward speeches, speak to her like a woman.

This is your wife, not some plate off the street. Invest the time and energy in her as you've clearly stated you'd like the marriage to succeed.

you don't get to play the fucking, Her feelings are her own bullshit because that defeats the entire premise that women submit to their men.

How can she follow your lead if you're telling her to fucking lead herself?

[–]RPWolfAlpha_as_Wolf_2.0[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

The statements weren't as cyborg as they are written out. Her and I have always had good dialog. Fuck it all with communication of whats important in our relationship but we can talk to each other all day long.

When we were first married it was always us vs the world. Everyone used to tell us thats what they admired about our marriage. I became the drunk captain and forced her to take over. I am trying to lead and get control back. She is stubborn as fuck and is fighting the whole way to the ground. She ooozes go grrrrlllll.

This event happened way sooner then I was planning. We have been married almost 18 years and I am 5 months in. I have miles of improving to do. I played the hand the best I could.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Flip the switch man.

Just start living the life you want and don't disregard everything she says.

If she is saying Jekyll & Hyde then maybe you're swinging from hot to cold as your mentally working out on presence and removing attention.

Let there be a comfortable middle ground.

This isn't major shit man, it's simple shit amplified.

Get back to laughing.

Don't Forget to Enjoy the ride

[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I disagree with you.

Don't make Not Your Fucking Problem into Your Fucking Problem.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

There is too much backstory to this dude than I'm aware of.

He wants to fuck his wife in her sleep, he has issues.

You want to say your crew isn't your problem, you're a shit captain.

This situation is out of any advice I can provide, too much history I missed.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy

“You know there have been some changes over the last few months. And I told you back in January that I was tired of being a slob, but it's a little more than that. See one day 6-9 months ago I woke up from this long, long....fantasy. A fantasy of how life was supposed to work and how things were supposed to be. I looked at my life and felt like it was a ship awash in a stormy sea, and the deck was in splinters, and the mast snapped in half, and the sails in tatters. I looked to the helm and there was no one there. And so even though I had this vision of getting to a place where I, either by myself or with someone, could give and receive value, not based off of any preconceived promise or this for that obligation, but value because my life compliments the world or someone else's naturally. Even though I had that vision I also took a long hard look in the mirror and thought 'who am I to seek such value'. It was then that I decided that if I was going to ask for that kind of value from life, from someone else, that I was going to need to become the best person I could possibly be physically, sexually, socially, at work and at home, with my kids and with my friends. So that I was someone OF value, to seek something of value. And believe me when I say this from the bottom of my heart babe I love you (cue her crying) and I want you to be there with me in this vision. If I'm the captain of this ship I want you to be my first mate. I want us to go there. BUT...REST...ASSURED...this ship is going there. I'm going there. And if you feel like that vision isn't for you, if you don't want to be a part of it (her hands over her face shaking her head no, as in no I do want to be a part) then I ask you....I DEMAND of you, to get the hell off my ship at the next port. But if you do want to go there with me. Then we can start by dropping all this talk, all these ideas of marriage counseling and couples therapy.” She interrupts by saying “we should talk about what to do then” and I continue “No, talk isn't going to get us anywhere. (I was very careful not to negotiate how value would come about. She has and will learn that from my encouragement or withdraw. But negotiating for value here would have been the kiss of death) We are going to do, and we can start doing by you getting up...coming over for a big hug, a long kiss, maybe add a little tongue (said with a smirk ).”

[–]drty_prRed Beret1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

Did you actually say that?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

Every word.

[–]JDRoedellRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Your memory is incredible

[–]sh0ckley1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

My favorite part was

(cue her crying)

[–]drty_prRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy


[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You mostly stayed out of her frame, which is good, but you neither have nor expressed your own frame, which will include your own vision and expectations for your marriage. This is then just a null event that holds things in their current unsettled state for her, with her unable to force you back into her frame and vision for the marriage, but with her completely lost as to what you want and expect or intend. So events like this will regularly recur with no progress or resolution until the uncertainty drives her crazy enough that she would rather end the marriage than live with it, or until you clarify your vision and expectations and lead her to a satisfactory marriage.

So you accomplished Phase 1 (stop living in her frame); bravo! Now get on with Phases 2 and 3. This is only an unstable way-station.

[–]BobbyPeru1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I have been getting hard no's and withdrawing my time and attention the last couple of weeks. Not in a butthurt way at all but in a your loss way.

Nope. This comes across as totally butthurt :

I tried to initiate got a hard no and grabbed my book and gave her a kiss and said I am not real tired I'm going to read for a bit.

[–]fuckmrpRed Beret2 points3 points  (15 children) | Copy

I don't trust you, I live with Jekyll and Hyde

How's your consistency bro? This says to me that you're a flip flopping bitch? /u/hystericalbonding called you out on your shitty leadership a month ago. Are you ready to work on that yet?

For fuck sake, stop telling her shit she already knows/should be implied. This little speech below is cringe worthy.

My response was, nothing happened but I am a man, you have expressed previously that sex and affection are the only things you feel you have control of in this marriage. I dont want to cheat on you but now you see that I do have options. I can not continue to give my time and attention to someone who clearly is so unattracted to me.


Nothing happened cause I'm a bitch. I want to cheat but don't cause I'm a bitch. You still have control cause I'm a bitch. I want you to think I have options but don't cause... and butthurt.

Better Response: Nothing happened

OPSEC I had done

You did no fucking OPSEC that's how you fucked yourself there.

Your resentment permeates everything you say and do.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy

Assuming her words mean jack shit at this point.

She feels pain and anxiety, and uses words to process those feelings. The only takeaway here I can go with is that none of it is trustable. He has the right idea, she wants control, and only has her pussy to secure it. He no longer accepts that, and she's freaking the fuck out.

Have a come to jesus speech, and most women come around. Some don't.

[–]fuckmrpRed Beret0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

The words mean shit but the feels behind it says, I don't believe in the changes you made. Better if she just expressed unhappiness, not mistrust. She also basically said he's not being constant. "Jekyll and Hyde"

If shes going to poke at his frame, she's going to go for the soft spots. I'd say it's unlikely this was just a hail mary.

Maybe he's solid and I'm just reading into it, better he account for the possibility either way.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret-1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy

It's hard, it reflects a lot of my main event, so I may be reading into it with bias as well. Only OP knows which is more apt. Either way, I could see him assuming it was, and moving forward with that narrative. If he has frame, and she adopts it, it WILL become the relationship dynamic moving forward.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

I agree that the way he talked about it sounds like a complete bitch. taking his toys from the sandbox because the other side didnt play nice.

at the same time, jekyll and hyde are almost always true. Beta bob changing stripes can be scary. So no wonder. He IS inconsistent. Can't change your behaviors and be considered consistent at fist.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy

I'm having a moment here. This thread is turning purple, and I don't fucking like it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

wolves are going stupid all over the place and talking too much.

[–]hystericalbonding0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

This thread is turning purple

Aside from the weird downvotes, probably from bluepill lurkers, I'm not seeing it. The top level responses:

  • all push, no pull, need to outline vision

  • outline vision and lead her

  • outline vision and lead her

  • outline vision and lead her

  • pressure flip (your response)

  • Scurve's question, and advice to NGAF

  • weak non-answer

  • outline vision, lead her

  • "let the hamster run"

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy


[–]RPWolfAlpha_as_Wolf_2.0[S] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

In the past my consistency was shit. She is conditioned to this without a doubt. She is looking for any angered response at this point to tell me, "see you havent changed a thing". The Jekyll and Hyde statement was geared more towards her being able to trust me from shit done in the past. She has made a previous statement of "you are only nice because you want something" meaning sex.

Yeah the speech was shit. I regret it being said. The resentment is even worse. I had thought I had let go of most of it but when things like this come up it comes back out.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

One thing that helped me was in Schnarch's work there's a very big emphasis on "Mind Maps". This is where partners develop very detailed and intimate understandings of how their partners work and what makes them tick. You both have models for how each other's brain works and how to manipulate it to get what you want from each other. What I think often happens here is that as your mentality and priorities change, her mental model is left behind and that's scary.

It sounds really stupid but just taking some time to explain how you now think about things and teach her better ways to achieve her needs. You can give her breadcrumbs to help update her model so that she doesn't have to rediscover it from scratch. Even just talking through other people's drama and narrating your perspective on it helps demystify it. I think Alpha_Engineer99 had a post about watching reality TV and engaging in discussing the drama. I did similar things where I would just talk about things I would normally completely ignore just so she can get reacquainted with how I tick now.

Clearly there's a lot going in with the flirting and texting and the attorneys. Her model for understanding that is your history of cheating. So it's pretty obvious what she's thinking about all the little details she's finding. You can just let her twist in the wind and see what happens, or you can describe how you view these things so that she can start to rebuild her understanding of you.

There's this thing called "DESC script" that you might find helpful (lots of examples on youtube). It's an assertive communication technique that was developed after WISNIFG.

[–]fuckmrpRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

see you havent changed a thing

Yep, every opportunity to get you back under control. And it will be this way forever. Women want to know that you are to strong to be controlled, so they attempt it often to make sure.

The words you choose (and I'd bet body language too), are not pulling her in. You are pushing her away bro. You don't become the awesome, fun, lovable guy once she submits. You become that now regardless of her. Be outcome independent but be positive in action.

She flat out asked me if she needed to get a lawyer. "I said you do what you need to do

Decide what you want and move towards that cause this shit will just drive her away.

Her response was that it doesnt matter anyway because she can't leave, she wouldnt have anywhere to go and she doesnt want to leave the kids.

She's ready to submit in my opinion. If you can kill the resentment and finish becoming the prize. I'll bet she hops right the fuck in your frame.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

"you are only nice because you want something" meaning sex.

I used to say 'cuddles aren't free babe' when she wanted to not have sex. You are nice when you want something, guarantee she's batted a few eyelashes to get help in her day, she knows the game well

[–]RPWolfAlpha_as_Wolf_2.0[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Nope, this would imply that she actually wants cuddles also. She is not a touchy person. Feels don't come easy by her either.

This statement was aimed I believe at her implying I am trying to manipulate her. However, this is what she believes but what isn't true. I am nice to her, in fact being too nice to her is what got me to this point to begin with. She more frequently throws out the comment, "all you ever want is sex" which in the past I would get pissed over but now when I hear that I try to engage in kino that doesnt lead to me initiating etc.

I was a beta dick with a lot of resentment and she is conditioned ot have her emotional guard up.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I am trying to manipulate her.

you are, or at the very least, letting her know the terms of your commitment.

Get over your woe is me bullshit, learn to have more 'devil may care' like fuckmrp told ya.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Nitpicky, a few thoughts:

My response was, nothing happened but I am a man, you have expressed previously that sex and affection are the only things you feel you have control of in this marriage.

Way too many words. "What, you expect women to ignore me because you want them to?" would have been sufficient. A nice pressure flip.

Once she gets it out of her system, cards are on the table. Either she wants in, or she doesn't, good job, either way.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Look, did she show more love for the asshole you when you met, or the nice guy you?


All the rest of what happens next will likely stem from that root

[–]RPWolfAlpha_as_Wolf_2.0[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Honest answer, I was never an asshole but I also wasnt a nice guy. I didnt meet her with covert contracts and resentment. So yeah I guess it does all stem from that. I was the definition of AF/BB

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Getting up to read a book or what ever looks like oi only if that's what you usually do anyway.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

As someone who doesn't know the entire backstory and only taking this blow-by-blow exchange into consideration, I think OP did pretty well for himself.

Is he acting like Jekyll and Hyde or is she just accusing him of acting different than he used to behave? I don't know, OP only knows how much truth this accusation has.

I won't nitpick his responses, because even though they don't look perfect, context we don't have is important and, let's admit it, acting in the moment vs having time to overthink over the Internet are very different. He didn't apologize and he didn't defend his actions too much, so I say good job there.

My overall impression though is that she is starting to understand the rules of the game. She used to think OP had no other options and she had all the power. Now she's realizing her primary piece of leverage (sex) is being taken away. Hence, her flipping out after SHE rejected HIM and didn't get the response she was hoping for.

That's what this was really about in my opinion.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Holy shit, just shut the fuck up, kiss on the forehead and go read your fucking book. Let dread do the fucking work. The main event ain't even close Dread done right, it won't happen But you're too busy running your fucking mouth

edited: took the nice shit out pull your head out of your ass this was a shit show she was looking for comfort and you turned it into a dialogue of an engineer with spread sheet

read up on dread levels 1-5 get through 1 and 2

[–]hystericalbonding0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Yes, it's the main event.

Whether you call it Sun Tzu's golden bridge, or a path through the hamster maze, you need to do more than react as if it's a series of shit tests. You will need to outline your vision for your life and how she fits into it.

[–]rocketskates42095761 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This. I got the same reaction "I don't like this new you..." and all.

Whether you realize you were doing it or not, there is a natural dread game being ran when you're going through this self improvement process. When I was faced with it I did exactly what OP suggested, told her the vision I had for myself, let her know her and our sons were still 100% included in my vision (from a place of I want you guys here) and went a little more in depth explaining that by helping myself all the other relationships I have in my life will benefit from the changes as well. Owned my shit in all this too...told her I wasn't going to get it perfect, I would still make mistakes and so on...but that I will be constantly working to improve myself, for my own well being.

She's likely thinking you're doing all of this to leave her for "someone better." Hold her cheeks in your hands, look past her eyeballs into the back of her skull and tell her you WANT her (if that is in fact the case).

I had to leave for work literally seconds after having this talk, but when I got home that night it was ooooon! And again the next morning....and night....and the following morning lol
That is just a phase, so don't expect it to last forever. But enjoy the hell out of it while it lasts, if you get the same reaction.

It's never too late to OYS, previous misteps and your vision looking forward. Be honest with yourself and communicate that to her, use your tone and body language to let her know it's for real, and let come what may from there.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

it's a fucking comfort test

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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