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Need opinions - Cheating?

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May 3, 2017

Long-time lurker, first-time poster. Throwaway account cause my wife is on Reddit too and I don't want her to read this as of now.

Long version

Been on TRP for a while without even knowing it. LTR'd my now-wife at 18 while in college, been 15 years together. I was her first and only boyfriend. Everything went fine, moved to another country with her, married 5 years ago, 5 year old kid. Sex dwindled, sometimes to 1-2 times a month. Routine set. We have a relatively healthy relationship, she's a great mother, a good cook, helps a lot in the house. I take care of most of the admin, harder work etc. However, her communications skills are lacking -- realized this year she was most likely on the spectrum of Aspergers, at a very minimal level. She never takes decisions and is usually pretty emotionally removed from our couple but I put this on her being on the spectrum. For the 15 years we've been together, I was always the one initiating conversations about us and how to improve things. When something doesn't work out, I'm the one fixing it. She knows it and acknowledges it, but I feel like I'm still following typical Blue Pill behavior. I was beta as fuck for a long time.

I recently decided to take the matter in my own hands and started working out (only needed to build muscle mass), holding frame at all times and going for dread level 5. Sex life immediately (and greatly) improved. In all but 3 months, there has been more communication on her part, and I think a true willingness to work things out. I passed all her shit-tests easily. I brought out the topic of divorce at some point but she never talked about it again, and I didn't insist on talking about it either. Thing is, getting on TRP has given me more confidence and I'm now having second-thoughts about my love for her. I'm having multiple opportunities for NSA sex with attractive girls and am thinking of hooking up with one of them for a ONS, partly to see what I've been missing out by getting in an LTR so early in my life, and partly to validate I can do it. See it as an exit plan draft if you want. Now my wife is a solid 7, started working out too and has always been faithful. Also don't want to jeopardize my relationship with my kid. So I'm basically having a 30s life crisis like every other dude around.

What do you guys think?

Short version

Guy in his early 30s, on TRP for about 4-5 months, in LTR with wife for 15 years. Wife is nice and hot, having a lot of communication problems. Guy tired of her shit and always trying to resolve things by himself, having doubts about his relationship. Opportunity for ONS, low-risk.

Please don't refrain from calling me out. I'm here for that. And I know I'm still into TBP patterns. That's what a life of being a beta leaves you with.


Just wanted to thank everyone for their input. You guys were a tremendous help. FWIW, I decided not to cheat. First because it would mean I don't own my shit. Second because if I'm questioning it, I'm not ready anyway. Third because I never liked taking the easy way out and won't start now. Let's call this a moment of weakness on my part.

Thanks again for taking the time.

Post Information
Title Need opinions - Cheating?
Author futterbucks
Upvotes 7
Comments 59
Date 03 May 2017 04:22 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/206203
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/691dfr/need_opinions_cheating/
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Red Pill terms found in post:
betadread gameframecheatinglong term relationshipONSthe red pillthe blue pill

[–]cholomiteMod / BP Downvote Magnet19 points20 points  (13 children) | Copy

I don't care about the moral issues with cheating, do whatever you want, but from a "red pill" perspective, especially a married red pill perspective I have the following thoughts.

A truly confident, DNGAF and abundant man wouldn't need to cheat, because he would just be upfront with it because he has the balls to 100% own his shit. Why sneak around and hide stuff? Are you afraid of her finding out? That means you're in her frame.

Also, cheating makes it harder to hold frame. Alphas don't have secrets because they own their shit. Hiding stuff and being squirrelly are beta activities. Do you think ghengis khan hid one concubine from the other?

Again, I have no problem with guys cheating, from a moral standpoint. I just think it's a pussy move. It means you're too cowardly to be honest with your wife and tell her how it really is. If you want to fuck other women, then go fuck other women. Hiding and all that shit will only make your life me difficult in the long run.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

OP, I second this message. You are in her frame and you are accident looking to happen. +1

[–]futterbucks[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

THAT is what I needed to hear. Thanks man. More difficult in real life than in theory (especially with a kid), but definitely makes sense.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

there is an element to it that has to do with strategy. You may not want to say anything due to those pesky blue rules.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy

On the flipside, not giving a fuck enough, so that she doesn't deserve to ask, AKA CAD.

He won't tell her, he will lie out the side of his face over it, but thats because 'who the fuck is she to even ask?'

[–]cholomiteMod / BP Downvote Magnet2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy

True. CAD was in a league if his own with all his extra marital shenanigans. Still, the idea of lying doesn't sit well with me. If I wanted to fuck around, I think my gf just wouldn't ask and wouldn't want to know. As long as I'm not running all over town with different girls, she probably wouldn't care. I'd just give her a look or fog until she dropped it.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

How I see it

And she wouldn't. Every single guy in here to occupies that space falls under the Rule about sharing a high value male. They don't want to know, and they don't want to have it affect their social standing.

Oddly enough, not sexing your husband enough to keep him from straying is still something shameful for a woman, if he is able to get it elsewhere anyways

[–]cholomiteMod / BP Downvote Magnet1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

If he handles it like that, then he is 100% on point. That's hard though and I imagine more guys in scenarios where they are "going to the gym" or some other lame bullshit lies, then wife catches him like some highschool shit and 6 months later he's posting about his impending divorce rape. It's just the lying the leaves a sour taste in my mouth, but if it works, it works.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I agree. Its congruence for me. I doubt he pretends if his wife is anytbing but a fucktoy babysitter.

[–]futterbucks[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

CAD is somewhat impressive, but not my style. I would rather get a divorce. Being upfront seems like a better option to me.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

dude, his is a strategy I believe

its dark triad, kind of. Just not giving a shit.

[–]cholomiteMod / BP Downvote Magnet1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I have nothing against guys who want to fuck around, I know for a fact that my girl would rather be with a guy who cheats on her every weekend over a guy who can't fuck any girls. It's just the secrecy part that doesn't work for me. If a guy can make it work, by all means proceed, women love the dark triad. I prefer to keep my shit on the level and if my girl isn't working for me I'll let her know. I'm also not legally married so that can make a difference as well I suppose.

[–]InChargeManRed Beret2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'm with you. I've discussed this with my wife a multitude of times.

"I don't cheat, it isn't inline with my morals. If I'm ready to have sex with somebody else you will be the first to know, and we can work out the details then." She put up zero defense about it, literally a nod of approval. I've elaborated before as well: "Whether that means divorce or some other arrangement we'll have to figure out if that time was to come."

Your not a creep if you hold fast to your morals. Sneaking around is her bigger fear.

Somehow this reminds me of an old lendingtree commercial (I tried to find it on youtube but couldn't). The "old" banker comes in to discuss a refinance and the guy tells him he will now be competing with every other banker, but, between you and me I'm pulling for you. The other day I proclaimed "I'm getting a nice BJ from somebody today!" She responded "Oh really, just anybody?" I responded "Well, to be honest, I'm really hoping it will be with you." It turns out it was her!!!

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

"I don't cheat, it isn't inline with my morals If When I'm ready going to have sex with somebody else you will be the first to know....

With the above modifications that's is exactly what have said to wife more than once.

She could not handle the deception. I don't want the deception.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

She sounds like the man, and you sound like the woman in this relationship.

[–]futterbucks[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Cause I'm hamstering like a bitch? Yeah, might be. Working on it.

[–]mrpthrowa4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy



Then read your post...

What do you want here? us to tell you it's ok to cheat?

Really what do you want?

There is a clear lack of purpose and communication here...

Wonder why the wife has the same issue?

Something about woman, man, mirror?

[–]futterbucks[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I should have been more precise, it's true. I'm essentially a little lost and looking for some guidance on what to do next. Not looking for approval on how it's OK to cheat -- it's not, at least not in my case -- this I know already. As for my wife's issues with communication, they're another problem entirely that unfortunately doesn't really depend on me.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (14 children) | Copy

What sorts of communication problems? What's your biggest communication complaint right now? How would things be different if you could change them?

[–]futterbucks[S] 0 points1 point  (13 children) | Copy

Initiating convos on serious issues -- finding a house, deciding which school to put our kid in, how to improve our sex life, stay fit, this kind of things. Most of the time, it leads to me taking decisions, and sometimes dealing with the fallout when I make bad choices. It can go from choosing what to eat to having kinkier sex. Leading is nice and all, but it's tiring, especially when the person on the other side is indecisive at best/frightened by what could happen at worst. She truly can't help it and I don't hold it against her, but even if she tries hard, it's really taxing not having reciprocation. Hell, I would love it if she would just hold her frame. Instead, there's just nothing. So for the last two months or so I just decided to let it go and focus on myself instead.

More communication would be freeing. It wouldn't change the fact that my n-count would still be 2, but it would help.

[–]WesternhagenWinner4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

So you initiate conversations and make decisions. What's the problem exactly? Sounds like good leadership to me. Much better than either "making big decisions without having conversations first" or "having conversations and then making no decision". She is submitting to you. Enjoy it!

"Leading is nice but it's tiring". Awwww, poor you! You have no kids, right? Being a dad is the same way - nice, but tiring. You never get to kick back and "stop being dad". In the same way, you never get to "stop being the husband". You know what happens if you stop leading? She leads you. She becomes mommy, you become baby. Pussy dries up.

it's really taxing not having reciprocation.

Do you actually want her to take the lead? Really? That's your inner beta talking, who wants mommy to take care of him. Fight that shit. You're the man, leading is your job.

"I want to have an affair because my wife won't make decisions or initiate conversations" - that might actually be a new one around here...

[–]futterbucks[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

OK, I have to say I laughed. You make good points all around. I actually do have a kid. I simply believed being married meant having someone to help you out when needed. I'm still trying to work this out. And you're right about leading, I have to own up to it.

As for your last sentence, no, this is not my point. I'm thinking about getting easy pussy outside marriage because now I can. The situation with my wife is an enabler, though.

[–]innominating1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

She is there to help out. If you want her to make decisions, delegate them. You have to lead.

You want to cheat because you perceive your SMV going up and you want to prove you've still got it. It has little to do with your wife. Go for it. Either tell her before you do it, or make sure your OPSEC is tight and prepare to die with that secret.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy

Initiating convos on serious issues -- finding a house, deciding which school to put our kid in

Are you or your wife introverts?

Both I and my wife are. And we tend to be pretty anxious types. I think this combination can easily cause interaction patterns that seem autistic. Broadly speaking, autism is an inability to correctly understand how another person's mind works. Note that it's inability to understand not failure to understand.

The cliche about extroverts is that they think with their mouths--this gives a direct feedback that makes it pretty easy for others to learn how they think and correct their models. Introverts think internally and don't provide this feedback loop. Worse: if you're a "nice guy" you're trying to actively cause others to build false models of your mind in order to manipulate them.

So... when someone fails to correctly model an introvert or nice guy's mind, it's not necessarily that other people are unable to model minds. Maybe they just can't model your mind. Because you're not letting them.

I've put a lot of effort in the last year working on being more ... "extroverty" around my wife so that she has that missing feedback loop. Things like hashing out decisions and opinions outside my head and connecting by inner monologue to my tongue (particularly on things I'm uncertain about). Just being more open and honest with my own thoughts has prompted my wife to do the same. It's helped our dynamic a lot.

[–]futterbucks[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

I like to keep to myself but am not shy or unable to interact at all. She definitely is though. And also having a lot of trouble reading other people's expressions etc. On the very low spectrum of autism, but on the spectrum nonetheless. Being open has always been my go-to (apart from this particular topic, obviously) -- and yeah, your "nice guy" part is right on. Problem is, I'm having issues keeping up with this dynamic, as u/westernhagen correctly pointed out. This is on me and I need to work on it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Ok, well it doesn't add up to me that the issue was challenges about making decisions because you're having trouble reading your wife. That being unable to read your wife is due to her undiagnosed low spectrum autism. And that you just need to keep on doing what your doing. But if it makes sense to you that's all that really matters.

[–]futterbucks[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Oh I can read her perfectly. Issue is more about me wanting more feedback from her and not getting it (and being a crybaby). Also, built-up frustration leading me to considering fucking around. Pretty typical married man crisis.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Are you actually talking about feedback/communication about sex?

[–]futterbucks[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

About everything. Sex is only part of the equation.

[–]jigglydee1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

You want her to act like your mummy. Because it's too hard being a leading man.

[–]futterbucks[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I want a reaction. Anything. Leading is hard, no doubt, but I did it so far and can keep on doing it. I'm a rather controlling person and I guess I'm taken aback by the fact I basically now have two kids to take care of. I would do anything for my daughter. Not so much for my wife.

[–]jigglydee2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Firstly, most men come here and experience what your experiencing in regards to fucking other women. I have been there, I'm still there. My solution is to not cheat. Instead, I'm working our relationship to eventually have other chick involved. If that doesn't work out I will probably end up having sex with other women anyway. The difference is I won't have regrets, and I won't be proactively hiding the fact.
As for the leading, take baby steps. Start to handover accountabity towards her. Give her smaller tasks on which she needs to make a decission. If it doesn't get done, then you punish that behaviour. If she follows through you reward that behaviour.
Leading doesn't mean you do it your self. A critical part to successful leadership is delegation. You can't delegate, means you can't lead.
As it stands, ownership is still on you.

[–]futterbucks[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Solid advices. Thank you.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Little baby wants to suck some titties and is trying to talk himself into it and wants us to help justify cheating on his kid. Fuck that. I'm not going to help.

Whatever you think you want, be a man and get it. Either turn your wife into what you want or straight up work it out with the wife so you can bone chicks like a Chad. Cheating has a cost to your own soul. Why would hurt yourself like that?

[–]futterbucks[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Not asking for anyone to help justify anything. Simply want external input. Nothing more, nothing less. And your post helps, even if it wasn't intended to.

[–]nantucketghost2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy


[–]futterbucks[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is exactly where I'm headed to -- partly thanks to the feedback I've been getting here. Things are already much clearer today.

Thank you for that.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

From experience (n was 1 too) if you can find a way to not cheat and get rid of that feeling of missing out, especially if you have an otherwise good marriage, I would do that first. Talk with friends. Talk with a counselor. I never could overcome that feeling and I'm not sure if there's anything other than banging another chick to get over it.

My marriage was shit, so I'm a little different. If your wife is nice and hot, man I wouldn't screw that up

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You asking permission? GTFO.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

oh thats a funny one

[–]futterbucks[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

I'm honored. And sow these oats I might.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

Just make sure to ignore any comments in here that require you to ensure owning your decisions, and their concequences.

The ego must flow

[–]futterbucks[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

It was just in jest. Not rushing things out, and certainly not taking a decision now.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

look at /u/over60stupidloner post on the issue

[–]futterbucks[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yep, already did. Both posts were enlightening. Thanks!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Cheating is a big risk, especially for a married man with children. Would it be worth it to you to potentially lose your family and resources?

[–]BobbyPeru1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Pretty sure you answered your own question

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

I'm having multiple opportunities for NSA sex with attractive girls

Why do you think this is happening? (what's working in your mind)

[–]futterbucks[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Partly because I've worked on myself, partly because I started to detach myself from my marriage.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

What specifically attracts them

[–]futterbucks[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Uh, let's say I'm apparently attractive enough. Often had offers from random chicks (even before dread) but never acted on it because I wasn't ready/didn't feel it would be right/was too afraid to act.

[–]rocknrollchuck0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Here's a post by u/ over60_stupid_loner that I think exactly answers your question in great detail.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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