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Why bother?

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January 29, 2017

I'm doing better than ever owning my shit in the standard areas. I'm lifting, passing shit test, improving financially, hanging with bro's, started a 3rd business. I've plenty of room to improve, but I've come a long way. I'm no master, but I'm no longer a rookie either. My problem is more philosophical in nature. 

About 3 months ago, my wife had an emotional affair with her college boyfriend. It happened for about 3 months, at a time when I thought we were happier than ever. I had begun the redpill journey about 6 months before she began the affair. We were having the best sex of our lives, shit test were batted off with a smirk and we were having fun. I thought life was easy sailing for the foreseeable future. Then I found out about the daily phone calls with Mr. Ex. We've got kids and businesses and houses and shit. Those things made divorce more painful than staying. I'm willing to walk, but I'd prefer to avoid it if possible. I did see an attorney and made it clear that if it happened again it was over.

Fast forward a few months (present). I'm thankful for the affair because it showed me the true nature of reality, but I'm having trouble adjusting to this new reality and reconciling some contradictions.

Is it my fault that she did this because I didn't give her the tingles or is it hers because AWALT?

If it's my fault, then it seems too focused on the woman. She did this because I wasn't giving her the tingles? Rephrased: her feelings are my responsibility. I'm building 3 businesses, being an awesome dad, lifting, maintaining friendships, reading tons of books on how to deal with her evolutionary sexual strategy and that's when she pulls this shit? WTF!? I really don't think I can pack much more self improvement in a 24 hour period.

If it is her fault, because AWALT, then she'll just do it again, especially considering she did this when I was at my best and our relationship was at it's highest point in 10 years of marriage. This means there's not much I can do and I might as well bail or start cheating (both of which I'm too busy to deal with right now.)

This has condensed into a lack of attraction on my part. I really don't want to touch her. When I do, all I can think about is her wanting this other guy. The few times we've had sex in the last two months I've developed a P.E. problem. I know that this stems from some sort of anxiety. It sucks because I can't just work harder to fix that problem. It's some reptilian brain shit that I can't reach. It's like saying, "Make your heart stop beating for 5 seconds." 

So on one hand, I should step up my game and give her the tingles, show OI and be the shit. On the other hand, it feels like a big phony act. It feels like I'll never be attracted to her again. In fact, it feels like all women are just cum recepticles, not worth the effort. I thought mine was better than most, which I still feel is true. That doesn't make her great, it just makes all women really vile. 

I'm caught in a catch 22. If I put on a happy face and game her to give her the tingles, I'm being phony and ultimately acting within her frame. If I do what I feel, which is ignore her and focus on me, then she won't get the attention she apparently needs and she'll just chat it up with Mr. College Sweetheart. 

I'm starting to have a very negative view of my wife and women in general. They can not be trusted and I don't like having people in my life I can't trust.

How do you have relationships with women when you know they will look you in they eye and lie for no other reason than it feels good?

Have any of you come back from infidelity, either with your partner or with women in general?

Post Information
Title Why bother?
Author RecoveringBlue
Upvotes 13
Comments 26
Date 29 January 2017 04:45 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/206576
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/5qs3gw/why_bother/
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Red Pill terms found in post:
tinglesAWALTframecheatingshit testliftgamethe red pill

[–]zeteomegaleio9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yeah, I've been here before and am still dealing with it.

Is it your fault? Yes and no.

Look, it is not your fault whatsoever that she chose to go down that path. She is an adult human being with her own agency.

With that said, are you perfect and do you have the perfect relationship? Obviously not. Is there a few things you could have done better? Definitely. I don't know the story of how you spend each day, and I don't need to. Because we all fail, every single day, at some things. We are imperfect. That doesn't mean it is your FAULT, it means you must have played a role, even if miniscule and you only take 1% responsibility, that LED UP to her decision.

Maybe the fact you are so busy doing everything else means she was missing being with you and sought it from someone else. If that was the case, does that make it your FAULT? No. Did you have an EFFECT in that decision, however small? Yes.

Is it the fault of AWALT? Yes and no.

She is an adult female human being, and there are certain parts of AWALT that always apply to all women. The same as AMALT when it comes to checking out a hot woman as she walks by, it would be ridiculous to throw out the basic urges and instincts that are underlying the reason we say AWALT.

However, as I mentioned before, she is an adult human being with personal agency. Both men AND women might want to fuck other people besides our spouse, but that doesn't mean everyone runs around cheating 100% of the time.

To boil it down, I think the problem is we too often pin OUTCOMES on AWALT rather than what it should be used for: a description of natural instincts/animalistic urges that come from a time prior to us being able to think on such an advanced level compared to all other species. So no, it doesn't mean every single woman ever will cheat on you, simply that she'll have the urge to fuck other guys just like you have the urge to fuck other women.

Is the premise of your question faulty? I think so.

It assumes that either you are at fault and are responsible for her emotions (no), or AWALT and every woman ever will cheat on you (no).

Humans are complex creatures because we have multiple competing "brains". For example, our animal brain might go "I want to go fuck that chick" and our thinking brain goes "Wait, I'm standing right here next to my wife, I can't just go walk across the food court and start humping that bitch like a dog could/would."

More importantly, people can change. That's not debatable as just about every man here has changed from being blue pill, OR if they were red pill from the start, then they already understand this as they would be continually improving themselves and thus changing.

I'm not suggesting your wife will never cheat on you again (that MAY or MAY NOT happen), but you appear to have made the decision to stay. OK, let's go from there.

If she is truly remorseful (recently linked in another thread by SPT I think: https://www.chumplady.com/2013/07/real-remorse-or-genuine-imitation-naugahyde-remorse/), then that is a starting point. If she isn't, then you need to reconsider if you are willing to risk going through this again to avoid divorce.

Assuming she is really remorseful and wants to change/fix this so it never happens again, you have to first find out what the real root cause of this is - it could be you not spending enough quality time with her, it could be she freaked out because of how you changed and got worried you'd leave her, it could be that she just has other mental problems, or it could just be she was a cunt who didn't have a problem with cheating on you at that point. Be wary of that last one of course.

Second, you both need to address that thing. For the record, again I'm not saying it is your FAULT if you were not spending time with her which drove her away and made her decision to have thie EA. I'm saying that if you don't want it to happen again, you need to help address that. But she also would have a TON of work to address what she did and ensure it never happens again, no matter what the root cause is.

Third, you are going to have to come to a new understanding of trust in relationships, as well as regain trust in yourself again (because you had no idea something was up, you are undoubtedly questioning yourself - "how could I not know that for 3 months?!"). You will never be able to trust her blindly again. Though, you will also never be able to trust any other woman blindly again either. So you're SOL either way on that.

But trust is not all or nothing. I wouldn't trust my best friend with my business email passwords, but I trust him enough not to punch me in the face when I go over his house to hang out and watch a game.

The goal for your wife is to start building up some trust again, brick by brick, as if rebuilding a house that was completely demolished. That means you know all the passwords and can check her phone/computer/records/whatever whenever you feel like it from here on out. As in, forever. Because there is no reason she should be hiding anything anyway even BEFORE this happened, and neither should you. (Note: I believe you don't always get what you deserve, as sometimes shit happens to good people and vice versa, but I do believe if you lay with dogs you get fleas. So while I don't judge anyone for it, I don't subscribe to the idea that it is cool to go fuck chicks secretly on the side as I believe I would personally have repercussions from it. Yes, even if your wife cheated on you. For me, I have some standard of integrity for myself regardless of what shitty things people do that affect me.)

The goal for you is to build up your self-worth, self-esteem, self-respect, and trust in yourself again.

If there is one piece of advice that I hope sticks, it is that you should absolutely not be saying "How could she do this to me?!" She didn't do ANYTHING to you, instead she was doing this FOR herself to get her needs met and it happened to HURT your feelings and emotions (rightfully so). The sooner you can disconnect that it was done TO you, the sooner you will stop the mindset of being a victim, which is really the point of this and part of the ultimate goal. This is something that applies to every area in life with every other person you meet as well. We're all just trying to do the best for ourselves first and her actions likely had nothing to do with you.

The world is not perfect and bad shit happens. Sometimes we have to choose the lesser of two evils. You can stay in your relationship because conditions are better to do that compared to leaving. If that is the case, the above is the condensed (seriously) version of the best way forward for that which I'm aware of.

[–]RecoveringBlue[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

That's a lot to sink in. I've read this several times and there's a lot of great stuff there. Thanks for the response, I'll take it to heart.

[–]gettingmymojobackRed Beret23 points24 points  (2 children) | Copy

Having been in your shoes long before I found TRP, I'll venture to offer a slightly different take based on the information you've given.

I know that when it happened to me, I felt horribly betrayed and put all of the blame on her. How could she do this to me? I was a great guy. I worked 70-80hrs a week. I was sacrificing time with the family to do what was best for "us".

My family time with my wife and kids consisted of an hour in the morning together, and maybe 1-2hrs in the evening together. My wife and I slept together on the weekends only.....sometimes, due to the nature of my work schedule. Most of the time I worked on the weekends as well. It got to the point where I was measuring free time in MINUTES.

I realize now that what I was doing was effectively removing almost all my presence from the relationship, inadvertently. Coupled with being a fat fuck, is it any surprise my wife start looking for another outlet for emotional comfort?

Now I see you're running 3 business, working out, meeting with friends, etc. Doing all the things that RP suggests for improving yourself. Have you ever stopped to think that maybe you're doing too much? That maybe you were removing your presence and effectively punishing her when she hadn't done anything wrong yet?

I think it's a fine line between taking care of your needs, self improvement, and OI and reading the non verbal cues your wife is giving you to judge the correct course in the relationship. I'm not saying this is your fault, I'm just suggesting at giving a real honest assessment on wether or not you missed some cues on how your wife was really feeling about all the changes, and the level of comfort you were providing her. I guess that's why they call it TRP on hard mode.

All that said, knowing what I know now, a hard next would have been the easy way out. Since you've already made your choice, there's no point in looking back. March forward and deal with the consequences of your actions as well as hers. If she still brings you value, then concentrate on living in the moment with her.

As I've suggested before, you trust until she gives you reason not to. If that changes you move on to trust but verify and next if needed. You're self improvement has given you all the tools you need to move on if need be. What is there to fear?

You'll drive yourself crazy if you over think it. I had almost 10 years to learn all about how not to deal with it. Learn from my mistakes.

[–]InvincibleKraken1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Quality reply. I hope OP understands your nuance about finding balance.

[–]RecoveringBlue[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Great response. Thanks. Although it's hard to control the emotions, I can control what I focus on. Since I have decided to stay for now, I should focus on the value she provides as you have said.

Finding the balance is not easy for me. I usually get tunnel vision. It's mind boggling because I thought things were the best they'd ever been. In hind sight, I think she was reacting to my alpha qualities(we fucked often and with vigor), but she was not getting something from me emotionally that she needed. Maybe I do need to slow down and pay attention to her with more of an observational approach rather than that of a dog trainer.

Thanks again for the thoughts.

[–]hackingyourightnow points points [recovered] | Copy

You became an asshole and she replaced you. That's not who she married in the first place or who she wants to be married to. You can't just change your personality in the middle of a relationship. It's really that simple.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Regulars in the blue pill don't get it both ways. Be a cunt, or be helpful, we don't dance here.

[–]rp_findingmyway4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Wow. Sounds like my situation (calls/text to out-of-state ex-BF, my ensuing ED when I found out) 8 months ago before I found RP. Once I got things right in my mind (and after re-establishing some boundaries with wifey that I thought were understood and universal and that now have teeth) and doubling down on abundance and OI, ED problems were long gone. Good luck. Figure out if she's worth the effort. Like I said, my issues were pre-RP. Would be bewildering to me if they happened now with the mini-physical and mental transformation i've undergone over the past 6 months thanks to RP. But like we've all heard before, AWALT.

[–]BobbyPeru3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm going to keep this simple. If you can't get past it, you need to move on. She owns her actions. I do think you probably missed some comfort tests though, so the decision rests on how much time you give it.

Me, personally, that's an automatic next, but you have to do what's right for you.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

You certainly have a lot of excuses in there, for her behavior and yours. You certainly have a lot of feels in there too.

Now...what are you going to do?

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Look up cognitive distortion.

Eeyore, the old grey Donkey, stood by the side of the stream and looked at himself in the water. “Pathetic,” he said. “That's what it is. Pathetic.” He turned and walked slowly down the stream for twenty yards, splashed across it, and walked slowly back on the other side. Then he looked at himself in the water again. “As I thought,” he said. “No better from this side."

That's you, Eyeore.

You have literally lost your way. Get out of your head.

Remove yourself from your situations. What would happen if one of your businesses started going bad? Bet you know what to do then. This is no different. It's a business deal gone bad.

You have all the time you need. Thing is You're spending it on the wrong places. Think time is currency. Now reapply where your currency is going. I don't know where it should go but I suggest you rethink your red pill path because brother you ain't nearly as far as you think.

This is about you. Not her. If her affair gets to you that bad then you have more work to do on your mindset.

As they say demote her. Improve yourself so that you're better and can replace her in a heart beat. She can follow or not. You are still stuck on her. In her frame.

Quit navel gazing and live your life.

[–]ex_addict_broRed Beret1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

"emotional affair" my ass

[–]RecoveringBlue[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You've commented on my old post and I appreciated your insight. Some of the things you said really stuck with me.

Of course I'm not 100% sure, but the guy lives in Germany and I've read many of the texts. I'm 99% sure they didn't fuck. But regardless, that's a detail. It's as if she did fuck him.

BTW, enjoyed your vacation post. I know that all of these problems won't go away with divorce. They are my hang ups.

[–]nastynickdrRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy


At the very least she sent him nudes with something stuck up her pussy/ass. If you stay with her she will respect you less than she does now. Yeah, it sucks.

As the others pointed, think for yourself: what if you werent married to her, would you accept this? Treat this as a business that gone bad. What would you do? Cry on and on and on about how all business suck and Trump is a capitalist pig and all business are doomed to fail and the world is so unfair, or you cut losses and start a new fresh better business?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Look at the bright side. At least you know exactly who your wife is, and exactly who you're dealing with. You know who she really is now. No blinders, no façade, no fakery. You know who and what she is now.

If you haven't been told this already, check for any signs of a physical affair. Most of the time, where there's smoke there's fire, and most of the time an emotional affair has already gone physical.

[–]baiconko0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

If your wife does not get emotional support from you, she will get it from someone else. Period.

[–]RecoveringBlue[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Would you mind defining "emotional support"? I'm not sure what that means exactly.

[–]innominating-1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy

Maybe you got a lot better and she is having a minifreakout because she sees your SMV outpacing hers and she is securing a branch.


Do you think the ex fucked her harder and better than you?

Either way, if your are going to stay, you need to start fucking her more, harder, and better.

[–]Lampedeir8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

Either way, if your are going to stay, you need to start fucking her more, harder, and better.

Do you seriously think their problem is that he doesn't fuck her hard (which in your mind also equals good) enough? Hahahaha dude, I doubt you have ever been in a relationship, let alone a good one.

[–]innominating-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

Of course you do.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy



read more, advise less.


Demote her, theres a hit involved with not enforcing boundaries. Demote her ass, it's not like there isn't a few guys here at least running out the clock, and running with their free hall pass

[–]innominating-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Read my comment closely: "if he is going to stay." He's already made up his mind that he is.

I'll add that he should fuck her harder and better and also start gaming and secure a side piece and fuck her harder too.

[–]aninoacid-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

Hmmmm.....I wonder why you have such a negative view of women

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

It's almost as if her wanting to fuck buddy from college leaves a bitter taste in ones mouth

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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