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How do you get past the anger?

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March 23, 2016
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Title How do you get past the anger?
Author
Upvotes 10
Comments 52
Date 23 March 2016 01:53 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/207572
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/4bmjjm/how_do_you_get_past_the_anger/
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[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (1 child) | Copy

This thread has been linked to The Blue Pill and the voting may not reflect our values.

Seems the blue haired girls of the Blue Pill have their panties in a ruffle about men remaining upset that their marriages were nearly sexless before we found TRP/MRP.

You Shitlords of MRP have a lot of nerve demanding sex as part of a marriage!

[–]ArchwingerRed Beret10 points11 points  (34 children) | Copy

Let me know if you figure this one out.

I've spent 8 years with my wife, plus several more prior to our marriage dating and living together. Our sex life has always been crap, but like a loser, I genuinely believed once we got married, we'd be closer and that would work itself out.

There was this moment, not too long after stumbling across The Red Pill, that I realized that I really hate my wife. She's not a bad person and not really deserving of hate -- I'd been a horrible leader and a poor example of a man from day one, and she'd really never been sexually attracted to me (yet she married me anyway - probably because she didn't know any better either).

And I just felt cheated. I'd been with this woman for years, putting so much into our life together, and all I wanted -- ALL I wanted -- was to have a normal physical relationship with my wife. Every other husband and wife has sex, and there I'd been for years, subsisting on once-a-month lazy-starfish duty-sex -- sometimes even less frequently than that. And I was just mad. That was years and years during which I was supposed to have a normal sexual relationship with a loving woman who wants me. Years she took from me that I'll never get back. Years that I felt sad, worthless, angry, confused.

So there was this day when I just realized how much I absolutely resent my wife. And how trapped I was. Because there's no out for me. Not unless I want to lose my daughter, my home, the majority of my assets, and write my wife a check every month. She has no incentive to improve, because I'm the one who stands to lose if she decides one day to cash out of the marriage. She knows I'm not going anywhere. Hate is an emotion that stems from fear -- when you're in a situation where you just don't know how to win. How to get what you want. How to overcome it. When there's nothing you can do.

Now I'm fit, proactive, confident, aloof, involved in lots of shit, and our relationship is better (though still far from ideal). I'm even happy. But I still resent my wife. I know it's my fault for letting this shit get away from me, not really her fault, but it's still there, bubbling just below the surface. I haven't quite figured out how to let this go yet. Maybe it's always there and you just learn to hide it.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (5 children) | Copy

Maybe enough shit has happened and enough resentment has built up that some of it will linger forever.
 
The analogy is the addict who fuck up his relationships. When he finally gets sober after a decade, does he forget all the bad shit that happened between him and the people he loves?
 
Some recovering addicts move away from their home towns because too much shit has happened. The people he knew when he was using are a constant reminder of his failures and of the shitty things that happened between them. Some people just need to hit the reset button and start fresh. This is a decision that should be made slowly and deliberately.
 
Other addicts seem to be able to heal those old relationships when they get sober, but it takes years.
 
/r/TheRedPill and /r/femalehate probably aren't the best places to hang out if you're looking to get past the resentment.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

I would also avoid MGTOW videos, and Patrice O'Neil to get over the resentment.

[–]cj_aubreyRed Beret2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

The analogy is the addict who fuck up his relationships. When he finally gets sober after a decade, does he forget all the bad shit that happened between him and the people he loves?

A large percentage of the 12 steps are dedicated to getting rid of anger/resentments for exactly this reason. Right or wrong, alcoholics and addicts have to let go of their anger or they relapse and maybe die. There is a process for this and it works. I've seen it work repeatedly and reliably for worse things than I see here. Things like anger against sexually abusive, mentally ill parents. Sometimes I give people an adhoc abridged version of this process modified for MRP and their situation. If people are interested I can try to write up a more deliberate and well though out post describing the process.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

If people are interested I can try to write up a more deliberate and well though out post describing the process.

That would be a great idea for /r/marriedredpill!

[–]cj_aubreyRed Beret3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

That would be a great idea for /r/marriedredpill!

Done.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Here is where the issue is for you :

You need to let go.

You need to figure out what makes you happy.

Losing your assets sucks. Loosing your home sucks ass. Loosing your daughter? That would suck but I am not sure how a great guy would loose his daughter unless she in at an age where mom can brainwash her, in which case, being divorced or being together probably wouldnt change much.

At the end of the day... whats your happiness worth to you? She still has all the cards if she wants to leave, so all you are doing, unless you are doing it with happiness, is putting more and more in the "sunk cost" of your relationship.

It helped me a lot to sit down with a lawyer and figure out my costs and bills etc etc if I got divorced. Sat down with a CPA as well. It would suck, and in my case its not as bad as with being married over a decade, but the end result is, I am willing to nuke it on a whim. This gives me great peace, and the ability to not let my anger LAST.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Resenting your wife means you still care. What happens when you stop caring?

I think it is sad that you are still letting this get to you after so long. The opposite of love is not hate, it's apathy - why not try that approach.

Instead of bottling it up, or allowing those rare instances of 'reminiscing' on it all, just fucking think Who cares?. Yeah, that happened, yeah you missed out on whatever - so what?

You are here now and have an opportunity to just fucking swallow the hate for good and just - be. Life is better when you accept it for what it is. You're however many eyars old which means you have however many years to go - maybe none, maybe you have a day or week left until your time is up. fuck it, live in the now, embrace the now - genuinely plant a kiss on your wife because why the fuck not.

Let it go man - you've wasted enough mental energy and breathes in your life.

[–]Ordinary_Gentelman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I ask these things more as introspection. No need to answer. We each answer differently but I do this to challenge perceptions. No offense meant.

I haven't quite figured out how to let this go yet. Maybe it's always there and you just learn to hide it.

This is the state of things right now.

It is not so terrible. You know this because you are already living through it.

So why do so angry? Why let it control you?

[–]cj_aubreyRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Let me know if you figure this one out.

I have a way that worked for me and continues to work reliably. Perhaps it can help.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

It's a feeling, and I'd take it over a life of quiet desperation anyday. Imagine the alternative to resenting her. Some kind of happiness that is just out of your reach, that you don't know exists, and have no idea how to get there.

I made the argument when jack10 and I were having a heated disagreement... Men have been trained to abhor conflict, but lets face it, 99% of our history it's the only thing that's made us grow.

I know when I was getting panic attacks under control, the big thing that resonated from Dr. Niceguy getting me out of work every week was:

Soon as you start thinking of these things as a 'what is wrong with me?', you end up creating a feedback loop which harms you. If you reframe them as 'considering the stimulus, this is a completely normal reaction'. Same input, same output, the only difference is what going on in the black box in between the two. The latter is demonstrably easier to deal with, learn from, and take action with.

And this is where I get full fucking nerd

Just play on man.

That resentment? It'll tap you on the shoulder now and again, when you do some nu-male shit, reminding you of why you won't, no matter how tempting. Everytime you think of her as your logical, rational and self sacraficing equal, slapping sense into you.

I'd say keep it, own it. Like the guy who got beat up every day by his dad, and promised himself that his son would never get a hand raised to him. It's a lesson that the teacher gets no praise for, but it's a damned good lesson nonetheless

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret-1 points0 points  (8 children) | Copy

I will cosign this. Thanks Arch. This is indeed the LONG game.

Part of the resentment is necessary because of Rollo's Cardinal Rule of Relationships: He who can walk away first, and cares the least, has all the power. All of the other approaches for a man asserting himself in a relationship that were used through all of human history have been closed off by feminism, society, and recent mangina traditions except one- the Cardinal rule of relationships.

Unfortunately, learning to care LESS is the only way to take the wheel from a ball busting First Officer in modern relationships. Literally nothing else we have tried works. All of the Levels of Dread take you further from your wife's frame of influence and develops your frame as your own separate and distinct from hers.

The problem is, when you care less, you are suddenly the more "valuable" person in the relationship according to irrational woman-think. So your wife suddenly, out of the fucking clear blue sky, starts to treat you well.

You learn very quickly that the more dismissive you are the better your wife becomes. The ruder, the more sexually aggressive, the more you treat her like a bratty teenager, the more you put her down, the more you behave LESS like you love and care for her, the more she seemingly cares about you.

The question is really: How do you turn off the derisive dismissals at EXACTLY the right time so you have the needed balance of Alpha and Beta?

AKA: Dance Monkey Dance. Perform for my amusement and you may be rewarded with the most august and precious moistness emanating from your Goddess- she of the golden uterus, the holy egg bearer and precious snowflake.

Sure, no resentment. None whatsoever. When you "need" your woman, she will not be found. She will not have sex with you. She will not help or provide reassurance. She will Shit Test, complain, nag, bitch, threaten, act with extreme cruelty, and take great delight in asserting her power by torturing you and then denying sex. When you "don't need" your woman, she is an annoyance, hanging around and supporting whatever you do and of course, she is always ready to have sex- but only when you don't need her, or even really want her because, you know, if you really show your desire then her hypergamy triggers start up....this guy is all over me, obviously I am more valuable than him..... and the whole process starts all over again.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy

So, restating this for my simple brain, and for your comment:

Therefore, the anger should never leave you, completely. Lest you lose value and your woman gain power over the relationship.

The anger stage is the exaggerated beginning of what will be a new awareness. To take comfort in the discomfort, for life.

Again, the anger stage will get less intense, but it should not go away.

[–]Ordinary_Gentelman1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy

Again, the anger stage will get less intense, but it should not go away.

hmmm.. interesting perspective. This bears thought.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

Reversing my own thoughts for discussion....

Since anger is generally a negative emotion. Rather then FEELING the anger for life:

*Remembering the causes of the anger.

*Then learning from, and implementing the lessons that were presented, and that caused that anger; while

*Learning to live without that negative feeling of anger.

*This could be a more Stoic and higher and mentally healthy goal.

[–]Ordinary_Gentelman1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

Yes. This I understand.

The hard part is when, after a time, the woman does not follow along. Sometimes leadership isn't the only solution. You can only lead so far.

I haven't reached that point yet, but the process demands I consider it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

the hard part is when, after a time, the woman does not follow along

She will or will not, it is her choice always.

The anger stage is internally about you. Since you cannot control her, the anger is really about ourselves. She is just a symbol of our own failings; even if she is the lowest quality woman in the world.

[–]Ordinary_Gentelman0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Right. Ok. So indulge me a second.

Is anger justified or not?

We can't have it both ways. we can't say on one hand that anger is justified and then say get over it. Someone said that it hurts a man sense of justice. I'd could agree to this, because it fits our notion of the battlefield where justice was given out swiftly and fairly...well maybe not so fairly but it was swift and accurate. No equivocation.

But is it justice or revenge we are looking for?

It may be a small thing but justifying it is a far cry greater then admitting it happens. I don't think it's justified, especially if, as bad captains, we had a hand in it. It would be more accurate to say it's valid.

We are wallowing in anger. This is not acknowledging the anger is there or has been there....say what you will about remembering the feeling, the sources and causes...then using it to consider the worst possible outcome then becoming used to that idea -- blah blah blah, the fact is we are wallowing here. we have never left it behind as a memory but bringing it back up and reliving the trauma.

Anger and frustration hurt us more than the things we’re annoyed about hurt us. -Marcus Aurelius

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Good Point. I think Marcus Aurelius had a better handle on it than me.

[–]Ordinary_Gentelman1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Seneca as well. He said:

Our anger invariably lasts longer than the damage done to us.” What fools we are, therefore, when we allow our tranquility to be disrupted by minor things.

The thing we must not forget though is that the Stoics considered transgressions to be incidental or could be. What they never considered is that this was in a persons' nature. AWALT. This is way our anger is very much closer to revenge, or the desire for it.

It's hard to cultivate a Stoic response and attitude when the transgressions are fundamental to the trangessor's makeup.

Still, existing with anger is not any way helpful.

Thank you for this.

[–]IASGame0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy

Archwinger, given your situation, have you considered the "over60 / UCad" type of marriage? Not out of revenge, but to get more of what you want in life.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (9 children) | Copy

Just FYI, I don't judge others choices, but I don't recommend it.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy

Lol, this conversation again.

FT record, over 60 does not consider his life choices an aspirational model

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy

aspirational, that's when u/Scurvemuch puts a tube in my throat?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

I'll get a cute nurse to suction you first.

No, not that way.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Teaser..

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

actually it took me a second to realize what I wrote at first, hence the " no not that way"

getting suctioned in a hospital is not fun.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

That is the gayest shit ever.

And this is coming from a guy who posted a link to a Star Trek video ITT

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

[–]IASGame0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Yes, I remember you stating it was a last resort. But it looks like Archwinger may be in such a situation. He would need to know how to do it covertly.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

He would need to know how to do it covertly.

No doubt that he has more nifty tools in his tool box than I ever did.

I believe if he wanted to, it would already be.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

You are blaming her for your failures. You anger could continue forever if you do not reconcile understand and accept the cause.

You made mistakes, for whatever reason, doesn't matter now, in the past. You will be angry until you act on changing you and quit blaming her and talking about it and making it worse. If you change yourself, over the coming years you will can get better.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Edit: Everything I just said is a work in process for me also.

[–]Ordinary_Gentelman1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Like others I spent a lot of time here. I practice martial arts heavily...and I mean like 3-4 hours a day. My focus is very self defense and rooted in old traditions...meaning the method of training. Now what I mean here is that there is a lot of introspection. I spend a fair amount of time considering my motivations, my demeanor,...and things like if I can break this man's arm so easily how then can I prevent the fight at all?

Fact is you need to get passed the anger fast. Otherwise it'll remain and eat you alive. To compare this to self defense (because it's easy for me). The TactiCool Cowboys out there are bad press because they react out of emotion. They ignore the realities of the world we live in today. True self defense does not. It reminds us that we are the enemy. Our emotions try to control us. IF you let anger enter into your mind while defending yourself you will end up in bad way. Conversely letting it control you while you are building yourself up won't end well either.

Here's something I wrote about maybe it will help maybe it won't. But....you really need to look inwards. Find strength and solitude within the inner citadel you construct within your mind.

We all felt cheated. We all have been to a degree. Sure it's our leadership but honestly it's more then that. Why am I working so hard for sex when she doesn't have to do shit for the benefits of a marriage? My wife has commented several times, and even more recently about a month or two ago (and happily I might add) that she is glad she doesn't have to have sex if she doesn't want to like women did in the 40s and 50s. Just think about that. How fucked up is that? Am I allowed to say...well I am glad I don't have to have a conversation when I don't want? Pay the bills when I don't want?

It may be true that feminism has destroyed the idea of what masculine and feminine is...I'd argue that it's confused it for a great many people, but the difference is that men can rise above. Women are too confused (at best) what the world is really like. They are getting all the wrong signals, the most powerful one is from the man they love/married. So...take the higher ground. Being a man means you see the challenge and rise above it because we can rise above it. We already have proof that women need us to to do that. Alone they can't, or are unwilling to. That's not the point, the point is that men can rise above.

I suggest you invest in yourself. Heavily. I don't mean money I mean time.

[–]Griever1141 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Honestly, when you are feeling the anger take you... lift. The same rules apply if you are still new to frame/dealing with your wife. LIFT.

The anger phase is not really at her. The anger phase is realizing all of the wasted time you spent being a beta bitch.

It will take time to pass. Once you get past it, you will realize how much easier things become.

Instead of taking the anger with you and having it fuck with you. USE IT. Go and take that shit out in the Iron Temple.

Once you get past your anger at yourself, it will fall into place and you will realize.

AWALT

[–]ParadoxThatDrivesUs1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Not sure if this will help you, but what helps me is to really, fully realize that wife acted (sometimes still acts) that way because she's truly not attracted to me. As Clint Eastwood would say, deserve's got nothing to do with it. If she's not attracted to you, then what else is there to say?

[–]heavenorhell21 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I feel you. My wife made me feel terrible for so many years but I stuck around for my kids. My relationship is much better now, but only because of the changes I made in myself. It's hard to get over the years of misery this woman made me go through.

Love is ALWAYS conditional, so back when you were a Beta she didn't take care of your needs and wants because she likely harbored resentment towards you. Now that you have improved you have 'earned' her love.

It's not just our wives. It's all women. AWALT. So don't judge her and just be happy your relationship turned around.

[–]SepeanRed Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

You recover from this the easiest by getting past the source of your anger. You are not past it yet. My anger subsided quickly after my wife became loving, horny, and sucked my dick a lot. Build your SMV and frame and fix your life and marriage so the problems are in your past and not your present.

if that doesn't do enough, then time tends to help a lot.

Third, read A Guide to the Good Life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy by William B. Irvine. It has actual, workable advice to deal with this sort of stuff. Highly recommended by several vets here.

Whatever you have left after that is just something you have to live with. Some people are just more resilient than others.

I don't really get why you're specifically mad at your wife though. Is it really her rather than female nature and the shitty mainstream blue pill advice that is the source of your issues?

[–]cj_aubreyRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Any suggestions how to get past this.

Yes, I have a way that worked for me. It involves some work and fearlessly owning your shit, so its not easy. But if you're in enough pain to motivate you to do it, perhaps it can work for you too OP.

[–]alphabeta49Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Adding my two cents, mostly because its cathartic for me. This is a great thread.

I'm more angry at marriage and the fact that I wasn't taught about it properly than I am at my wife. My wife is a good woman, just acting on her biological urges to raise children. Marriage is a social construct that consists of making and caring for babies, which by its very nature opposes what a man wants, which is passionate, desire-driven, free sex. It becomes transactional. Sex for commitment. Even the most senior MRPers will admit to that.

It is, in my brief experience so far, nearly impossible for a man's sexual strategy and a woman's beta provider strategy to coexist. If you're going to make it work, it takes olympian effort to go down a very specific, high-stakes path where you need to be BOTH alpha and beta (which MRP does a pretty good job at proscribing). Even then, I don't think any married man's wife is giving him the same type of sex she gave before they were married.

My anger, then, is directed towards marriage. It seems impossible to have kids in a cohesive family and still satisfy my sexuality.

And I have no idea where it ends. So far, the prospects don't look good. I remember reading something by over60 in which he said that its not about chasing happiness. Its about using the anger to fuel yourself to make life your bitch. Essentially that's where I'm headed. To make life work for me. At the very least, I'll have accomplished enough to warrant a decent gravestone.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

Yeah. I second Arch's comment. Let me know if you get this figured out. These are wrongs wives have done to their men that cannot be righted. These wives did their husbands wrong and they got away with it.

EDIT: The more I think about it, the more I have to conclude Arch put his finger on why men have such a hard time getting past this. It offends the man's sense of justice. A woman has done him wrong, she got away with it and there's no way to make it right. He won't ever be compensated for his loss. It's time and money -- it's a big chunk of his life -- that's just gone and it cannot be recouped. And the married man with kids is trapped. He can't leave and try to find another woman. He'll lose everything if he does. He'll destroy his children's lives. Maybe his wife could live with that, but he can't. So he'll stay, and make the best of it, but resent the hell out of the lack of fairness and justice.

TL:DR: It ain't fair, and that can't be fixed.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

It ain't fair, and that can't be fixed

Then why do we chose to remain angry?

A woman has done him wrong, she got away with it and there's no way to make it right.

Like being the victim of a crime, and, the criminal got off. But to remain angry for years?

He won't ever be compensated for his loss. It's time and money -- it's a big chunk of his life -- that's just gone and it cannot be recouped.

I paid insurance premiums for years, but when the house burned down, the insurance company was bankrupt. Stay angry?

Maybe we make ourselves a bigger loser with the anger? Just thinking….

Maybe the view of so many religions about forgiveness has merit here. Forgiveness benefits the forgiver more then the forgiven.

Of course I must mention how I struggled with the anger also…..

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Right. All this is the problem. It happened, and we're still angry and resentful about it.

Yes, the anger just enhances our loserdom. Because we get caught in it and we can't get out of it.

The only way out is for us to get better, as you said above.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

enhances our loserdom

Almost poetic. Like it. Loserdom, new lingo for TRP :o}

[–]cholomiteMod / BP Downvote Magnet2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

If you feed a kid ice cream and do their homework for them and they grow up to be fat and stupid, are you going to be mad at the little kid for not stopping you from feeding them ice cream and doing their school work?

Accept that your wife doesn't have your best interests in mind. No one's wife or girlfriend does. They take whatever you will give them and ask for more. It's up to you to say no and enforce boundries. It's not your wife's fault you were too weak to do that before. Your wife isn't your "team mate", she is more like an employee doing the least amount of work to avoid getting fired. AWALT. If you think you'll find a better woman who will selflessly give you everything with nothing in return, I'd love to sell you some real estate on the moon.

[–]IASGame1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

It is dangerous to listen to your sister on stuff like that. Don't go from having your wife as your MPO to having your sister (or any other person, even some MRP guy here). It needs to be your own.

 

Your sister, as a woman, even if she thinks she has your best interests in mind (which you can't be sure) could have some ulterior motives that even she doesn't know about.

 

Riddle me this: don't you think it is puzzling that, if she wanted things to improve for you, she didn't say anything until you did it for yourself? And now that you are improving stuff, she says something and that happens to destabilize you?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I am pretty much in a phase now where I'm not angry. I give no woman 100% and can replace any woman with a new one. I know what I need and its not a partner, its sex.

That said, my marriage evolved to a place where currently we are doing a good job raising our kids. My expectations of my wife are low (realistic). I have zero qualms fucking other women and I seriously doubt getting caught is a death sentence for the marriage.

One thing, when the anger goes away, the workouts are harder to maintain. I was good for five to six nighs a week when angry. Now its four to five

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Your lifetime is finite. Think about that when considering your options.

I'm not trying to be melodramatic or to oversimplify a complex situation. In last year I've learned a lot about life and death and I'm suggesting that you make your own happiness and quality of life a top priority.



You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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