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AskHamsters goes into epic hamster mode and tries to rationalize why it is that female erotica centers around Red Pill men and rape fantasies. Highlights include "women like being ravished not raped" and "women have fantasies about consensual non-consensual sex but not rape."

seancj133

March 8, 2014

179 upvotes

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Post Information

Title	AskHamsters goes into epic hamster mode and tries to rationalize why it is that female erotica centers around Red Pill men and rape fantasies. Highlights include "women like being ravished not raped" and "women have fantasies about consensual non-consensual sex but not rape."
Author	seancj133
Upvotes	179
Comments	119
Date	March 8, 2014 1:10 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1zuup6/askhamsters_goes_into_epic_hamster_mode_and_tries/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/askhamsters-goes-into-epic-hamster-mode-and-tries.230896 https://theredarchive.com/post/230896

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OP: "Why are rape fantasies so prevalent in female erotica?"

Top response:

Because a lot of women have ravishment fantasies.

Certainly true. If only there were a handy 4-letter word for these particular types of ravishings, the ones where consent was not given or implied...

I love how you say "ravishment"... Because, contrary to popular belief it is not really "rape-fantasies". I will steal that.

"This isn't how I experience things (or this is what I claim, anyway), therefore no women have rape fantasies. Thank you for giving me a word that means something different than what I'm talking about, so I can torture and bend and contort this new phrase to suit my agenda. It's the Empowered way".

Rape is a horrible, traumatic experience. Ravishing is much more consensual.

More consensual? B-b-but women have confidently assured me that this was black-and-white, yes-or-no deal? If she didn't say yes, you raped her, right? Could it be that there are subtle cues and wordless messages broadcasted in her look, demeanor, body language and disposition? Perhaps even involuntary clues like sweating, increased rapidity of breath, and the expansion of the pupils to such a noticeable diameter the phenomenon is known as Come-Fuck-Me Eyes?

Man, that one was hard to get through.

I might be preaching to the choir here, but quite apart from any sexual issues in that snapshot, the amount of people talking like rape shouldn't be allowed to be written about is mind-boggling. These are the same idiots who think storybooks were invented to babysit their kids. A story is a story, the author writes what he or she wants and if a character is raped and nothing bad ever happens to the rapist, so be it. It means as much as Jack stealing a pair of shoes from a cobbler. It's fiction. You can't hold fiction up as some kind of strange segment of art where the characters are supposed to be moral and righteous and evil gets slayed at the end because that's what makes you feel good. What happens in a fictional tale is exactly what was meant to happen. Books have an immense power to shape our senses of morality and introduce us to fantastic new ways of thinking, but that's not an obligation for every author to fill.

EDIT: Thanks for Gold.

[–]Patriarchal_Bondage 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Villaintine 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Initially I'd made the comment as a joke, but since it's attracting attention:

Preface: before following my train of thought be knowledgeable of the topics in the sidebar including female hypoagency, herd mentality, and that women act on feels and "in the moment."

Assuming the difference between rape and sex is a question of consent on the part of the woman
Woman rarely give concrete verbal consent- it's more a thing you have to judge as you progress
Women rarely take in the full interpersonal ramifications to their choices until much after the fact, once their feels have become less engaged- hence "regret rape" actually being a thing.

This just supports the thought that consent and by extension rape are vague concepts that not only change in time based on societal pressures and values (as women tend to keep a herd mentality and the values of the group may not at all reflect the desires of the individual at the time of "ravishment") but also that they are not binary in nature and exist along a spectrum based on the feels of the woman at any particular time.

Think "ravishment" on one end of a spectrum and "rape" at the opposite end with shades of grey in between and depending who is asking/judging and what repercussions could occur and you could have completely different answers on whether a situation was ravishment or rape.

As for the downvotes- I couldn't care less. Popularity on the internet holds no value to me. Edit: formatting (probably failed there as well)

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There is no such thing as partial consent. That's why you stop if you are anything but 100% sure your partner wants to have sex. If there is any indication of discomfort at all you stop and start a dialog. That means you stop if your partner is stiff, uncomfortable, acting weird, intoxicated, not talking, not making any noise, not taking off your clothes, not taking off their clothes, or anything that seems off. You're an adult, you should be able to pick up on social cues.

Or she could say "stop."

She's an adult, she should know what the word means on those red octagon quit driving for a moment things they put up at the end of streets.

"That's why you stop if you are anything but 100% sure your partner wants to have sex." Yep, nothing screams "ladies man" like a guy who keeps stopping his thrusts to ask "are you ok? Is this good for you?"

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I agree 100%. My last girlfriend obviously had them, although we never went full-blown ski-mask, she liked being constrained and subdued.

People will fantasize about whatever is forbidden and horrible, because its the only safe away of realizing those experiences without actually undergoing them. It's the same thing with people who are into bondage.

I don't judge them for having these fantasies.

I do agree that ravishment is a "safe" type of rape fantasy. To actually have a rape fantasy would cause a lot disturbing cognitive dissonance for a lot people, it would also stir up controversy, because people would have concerns about glamourizing and promoting actual rape.

I'm sure there is a small outlier of sick women out there that actually go out and try to get raped because they get off on it. The getting drunk / acquaintance rape at parties phenomenon is a weak form of that tendency.

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points29 points 12 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Feminists have been trying to split hairs over "rape fantasy" and "ravish fantasy" forever. They have to - they cannot acknowledge that the defining characteristic of the fantasy is being powerless, of being unequal. So they construct this term ravish or maybe they give it a BDSM sex-positive spin, so they can make it about him doing these elaborate, approved things to her to give HER stimulation.

It's like there's a giant elephant in the room. Women, in these fantasies, are generally not thinking about being "forcefully fucked into love-submission" or whatever; they are envisioning being raped. Like actually overpowered and forced, despite their best attempts to resist it, to get fucked. She is always objectified and used as a hole in her fantasy, the dude in her fantasy isn't performing "ravishment moves" in order to stimulate her.

Of course, the other elephant in the room is that if 75% of women will admit to having rape fantasies, what does that mean for men? Of course - no one is willing to say it, but men are fantasizing about raping too. Why would biology build one fantasy into women and not a counterpart for men? Ladies, you're male best friend who seems oh so sweet is fantasizing about moving you from the friend zone to the rape zone. Guys are busting nuts to various types of rape too, and these guys are normal dudes, alpha and beta.

You can dress guys up like metrosexuals and teach them not to interact and communicate with masculine - feminine polarity, and act like our culture has gotten past rape, but the truth is, it's hardwired into both men and women. A man having power that in some way, whether violent or situation, forces a woman to submit WILL get both parties aroused. We've all thought of ourselves as a professor plowing some 18 year old cheerleader who has to because she doesn't want to fail the course - RAPE. It isn't violent rape, but it's rape.

Rape is horrible and all, but society needs to come to terms that it is a part of our psychology. Humanity may not have progressed to this point if humans weren't raping - many other animals entire reproductive process is based on rape. If you really want to solve a problem like rape, you will never get anywhere if you cannot bear to look into the ugly reality of the problem. A refusal to 'go deeper into the rabbit hole' is what results in these stupid "ban this game, dox this guy, censor rape porn, expell students to appear hard on rape" catastrophes.

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It seems this thread is crying "hypocrisy" a little too eagerly. Unless you know for a fact the same people who make such absolutist claims about rape and "rape culture" have these fantasies, there's really not much use in saying, "BUT YOU GUYS SAID THIS! Get your story straight!!" Because we're talking about a gender here. Like it or not, there are a lot of different women out there. Oh, did I just NAWALT? I should point out, I'm a pretty regular reader here, and long story short, I just don't think this deserved the kind of arms-in-the-air response it's getting.

A lot of the responses pretty much agree completely with TRP explanation. Perhaps they didn't use alpha and beta, but fundamentally, they admit that in one instance the woman is attracted, and the other they are not. Maybe I'm missing the whole point of this post? It just seems like they're making a fairly understandable distinction, and then people here are saying "all domination is rape." Hate to point fingers, but one of those sounds a little more short-sighted than the other. Help me out if I'm missing something, but let's stay critical guys.

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