How much does lifting improve SMV?

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July 7, 2019

Just out of curiosity.

If you had to break down everything that makes a high SMV male (looks, dress, career, frame, etc.) what % would a good physique contribute to the whole picture?

I'm working on all aspects of my life, but I always see lifting being disproportionately promoted in TRP so I wanted to know just how big of a deal it really is compared to everything else?

Post Information
Title How much does lifting improve SMV?
Author RayneXero
Upvotes 79
Comments 93
Date 07 July 2019 04:25 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit askTRP
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Red Pill terms found in post:
framesexual market valueliftthe red pill

[–]TheFlyingPro125 points126 points  (2 children) | Copy

Lifting is also one of the most effective anxiety killers, this aspect cannot be overestimated

[–]Reprimanded_Duck21 points22 points  (0 children) | Copy

I am most confident after a great lifting session.

[–]OfficerWade16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy

your mood, your health, your hormone balance, your anxiety, your confidence, your LIFE

[–]MarcusArelius44431 points32 points  (6 children) | Copy

Lifting helps more so with the confidence in your appearance that gives you the mentality that you are entitled to an HB8 for example. It does get you sexual attention and it's great to be muscular if you're going for 1NS.

My personal tip is to try to be as lean as possible. At around 15% I'd get laid but at around 12-10% I'd get approached every time I'd go out. Lifting makes all the difference if you are lean.

TLDR: Lifting provides the confidence needed to approach and maintain frame. Remember Game & Confidence over Muscles & Height

[–]strengthenics10 points11 points  (4 children) | Copy

I can imagine the difference from 15% to 12-10% is very noticeable shirtless, but is it really that much more noticeable with a shirt on for more woman to approach you?

[–]ogkushinjapan6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Maybe he also feels much more confident at 12% when his abs are popping. Giving off a charismatic vibe.

[–]mrp_awakening4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

It's certainly noticable in your face. I know my face looks better/more dominant around 10% than 15-18%.

[–]ExternalEducator1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

yup it's the face

[–]teveza110 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I can imagine the difference from 15% to 12-10% is very noticeable shirtless, but is it really that much more noticeable with a shirt on for more woman to approach you?

It depends on your body type.

I used to have a six pack, I put on weight and now look better in shirts. Good shape still, but no chiseled abs anymore.

Definitely better at 20 lbs. heavier than at a real low fat percentage.

[–]Psychological_Radish82 points83 points  (11 children) | Copy

It depends on your individual situation and context. Leonardo Di Caprio is mid-40s and flabby. Yet he has been banging <25 YO models his entire life. The marginal return on lifting for Leo would be pretty low as far as SMV is concerned. His status as one of the most famous actors in the world for two decades overwhelms his deteriorated physical appearance.

Most of us aren't rich and famous celebrities, though, and probably never will be. A lot of that comes down to sheer dumb luck. For the average Joe on this forum, lifting is a guaranteed method of drastically raising SMV in a relatively short timespan.

Unless you're a sexy fireman or a DJ or something of the sort, your career won't make her want to fuck you more. Those are Beta Bucks provider traits that only come into play once she enters her epiphany phase.

For most guys SMV is basically about Looks and Game.

[–]RayneXero[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for the detailed answer!

[–]EnemyAsmodeus-2 points-1 points  (9 children) | Copy

Bro, first of all LDC is male-model quality, he only BECAME an actor because of his good looks.

LDC is also a celebrity, faaaaamous for being sexy. He could say "hi ur perrrty" and still get laid.

Please stop using celebrities to make such analysis.

[–]Psychological_Radish4 points5 points  (8 children) | Copy

first of all LDC is male-model quality

Yeah, 20 years ago. Now, not so much.

Please stop using celebrities to make such analysis.

Obviously Leo is an extreme outlier. That goes without saying. Everybody knows who he is, so I use him to illustrate a point that you clearly don't understand.

[–]EnemyAsmodeus0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

Leonardo Di Caprio

Trust me he's still getting laid more than you. And he's still considered very attractive at 44.

illustrate a point that you clearly don't understand.

I really don't, still don't, because you can't articulate it and used a bad example.

Even if he was "flabby" as you claim, he's still a hottest celebrity.

[–]Psychological_Radish0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

The 80 folks who upvoted my comment seemed to understand it just fine. But there's always that one dummy in the group

[–]EnemyAsmodeus0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

Or there are a lot of idiots around who think a celebrity is like a normal person who by their skills are getting women completely by merit of their conversation rather than merit of their career and social standing and model-like looks.

Even more incredibly bizarre was the part where you said : " you're a sexy fireman or a DJ or something of the sort, your career won't make her want to fuck you more "... But somehow hollywood famous actor doesn't count? whaaaa?

Like sheep upvoting their braindead leader.

[–]Psychological_Radish0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

rather than merit of their career and social standing and model-like looks.

That's exactly my point dumbass

His status as one of the most famous actors in the world for two decades overwhelms his deteriorated physical appearance.

[–]EnemyAsmodeus1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Again how does this make your point? His status is what I mentioned in ALL my comments and also that he looks good, because he does look good still, to this day...

It's just the worst example you can use, how can you not see that?

Better to use an example like Hugh Hefner, an old wrinkly man. Or better to use Donald Trump, a fat man with balding hair and mullet, in his 70s, wears bad too-long red ties, doesn't have any knowledge about a lot of things, says hateful and outrageous things all the time, clearly narcissistic, but was still able to have fans.

See unlike Leo, they all have worse qualities than just "being mid-40s".

[–]mmishu2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I agree with you. Leo if anything is a good example of aging well. Watch his interviews with dudes younger than him. He doesnt look older he just looks more sharp and refined.

[–]EnemyAsmodeus0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah which I think the guy I'm talking to used a wrong example, knows he used a bad example and just doesn't want to admit it.

[–]Psychological_Radish1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's just the worst example you can use, how can you not see that?

silly me

[–]sebastianconcept18 points19 points  (1 child) | Copy

It has a potential to keep you perceivable as 10 years younger than you are. Think after your 40s banging hot chicks in their 20s

[–]Its_scottyhall12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is absolutely true LOL. I'm 39 and dating a 26 year old.

[–][deleted] 105 points106 points  (19 children) | Copy

Lifting is not about aesthetics, testosterone rules the world.

[–]RayneXero[S] 24 points25 points  (5 children) | Copy

I agree.

Would you say the effects of lifting bleed into other aspects of one's SMV because of the T boost?

[–]bruiser1817 points18 points  (2 children) | Copy

Yes. Makes you more dominant and confident among other things.

[–]Project_Zero_Betas0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Also shows off your dedication and discipline.

[–]bruiser186 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think he just meant the effects of testosterone from lifting, but yeah lifting does portray you as a man with discipline and work ethic.

[–]knowledgeseeker9993 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

To what degree does lifting boost T?

[–]bidric16 points17 points  (10 children) | Copy

Since I started lifting 5 years ago I had progressive 180° change in my political thinking, I wonder if T levels have anything to do with it.

[–]Project_Zero_Betas6 points7 points  (8 children) | Copy

In which direction did you turn?

[–]bidric19 points20 points  (4 children) | Copy

Economically I'm now completely on the right, socially I mostly don't care and adhere to "do whatever you want as long as it doesn't affect the person next to you"

[–]arcelohim1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

What party is that?

[–]EnemyAsmodeus8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

There is no party for it really.

Economics is almost independent of party politics, as there is such a distinct mix.

You could be into liberal/keynesian economics and still right-wing on say natsec, patriotism, illegal immigration, pro-intervention (so not libertarian), while left-wing on social and domestic issues. Or a mix of all sorts of these components. What party do you belong? No one can tell.

If anything RP teaches that you should be true to yourself, true to the observations around you, as TRP only works because of observing the truth about women... This means, you should observe the truth and draw your own political analysis and your own political ideas based on principles and logic rather than "social consensus" or "party-alignment".

Also since, the US is an individualist society... this is why "Independents" are the largest group of voters.... EVER YEAR SINCE 2009.

[–]DAOcomment213 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy


[–]Project_Zero_Betas-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

Economically I'm now completely on the right

Descriptively or prescriptively?

[–]Jabbermouth8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

Gonna go out on a limb here and say from far left to far right. Just a wild guess tho.

[–]Project_Zero_Betas2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You are correct.

[–]teveza111 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I remember readings studies that muscular men are more likely to be on the right, or be libertarians.

[–]HurricaneHugues8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

We tell u guys to lift because it's the easiest, non superficial thing you can do to boost ur SMV. You can buy all the cool clothes you want, but thats a superficial boost to ur SMV. Youll still be the exact same person underneath, weak and out of shape and unsure of himself. At least with lifting not only do you improve your SMV for real but u also build your character

[–]MasterShake77711 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

disreguard females, acquire aesthetics

[–]Sepean27 points28 points  (10 children) | Copy

Career is almost entirely irrelevant unless you’re aiming for beta bucks, or you’re famous or something equally extreme.

Frame and game is by far the most important once you’re talking to her, looks is say 20% by that point. But from a distance, it is the opposite.

[–]laurcrv42 points43 points  (0 children) | Copy

Underestimating looks

[–]Thelminator11 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy

Looks are way more important. When I go to bars/clubs I always go with my friend which is hugely more attractive than me. Like if I'm a 7/10 he's a 9.5/10. I have more game than him but having girl excited when talking to me it's way more difficult (even though I can) for me because when they talk to him they are attracted and laugh at every bullshit he says.

[–]Jabbermouth9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yup bars/clubs are almost completely looks/physique based. You’d have a better time cold approaching or running gaming girls in your social circle.

I’m sure you already know that though.

[–]EnemyAsmodeus3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is what I've seen too. I'm above average but I can make girls in a social circle get really into me... However, finding a new girl is very difficult.

For super attractive men they have an opposite problem, they attract girls easily, but have trouble keeping them around.

[–]mantiss87-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Beta bucks?

[–]californiawaves235 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

IMO it’s about the individual. I have plenty of friends who are not in shape but have terrific charisma and they get laid. Could they get laid more if they were jacked? Possibly, but my point is just because you are jacked doesn’t mean you’ll get laid more. It’s a piece of the puzzle. For me, if I’m in good shape feeling good I’m more apt to be energetic, confident etc so it’s a by product plus I like to be healthy.

As my Pepere always said, look good, feel good, play good. Lifting for me is a major aid in the whole “look good” equation.

[–]AdeHMar2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

More than anything.

[–]Greaterbird0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

More than life.

[–]99661233 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Being fit definitely helps in office setting, men respect you more and women don't act bitchy around you.

Lifting also helps your mental health. What more do you need.

[–]kayfab3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy

I am 47 and been lifting for 34y, now if you plan on lifting to attract women that is plain stupid, i had the passion for weight training since 13y old and i never lifted for any women.

Truth i got laid like crazy younger and even at my age i attract attention from younger women because i am built, and not beach body build more like close to 6 feet 240 pounds built.

[–]EnemyAsmodeus0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Does it get any easier? I always feel like I've made modest gains in muscle, in 30s now....I look muscular but not that much, no one would say "omg that guy is a natural bodybuilder" unless I flex a lot. I just don't have the unflexed muscular look.

I look nothing like some of the guys with naturally high T from a young age. Nothing like the football players that were built large like in college who with a few times they go to the gym, they're already buff, while I've been going consistently for 6-7 years but occasionally I'll see a few guys at the gym, younger, and just ridiculously muscular and vascular, sometimes lifting much lower weights too.

If anyone wants to chat about this let me know.

[–]kayfab1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Try stronglifts 5 x 5 up your protein moderate fat and carbs.

Never train more then 3 times per week, compound for progression, careful not to go too crazy with deadlifts and squats, buy a good back support belt and wraps to protect your knees.

Genetics do play a big part, for me i am a lot bigger, but will never be able to have abs, only a very flat stomach. But i been at it for so long its a passion for me.

You gotta give it 5y at least. But natural 3 times per week lifting heavy should do that trick you don't have to kill yourself doing 2h workouts 5 times a week this is for the steroid users.

[–]EnemyAsmodeus0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

But I gain fat super easily, I eat mostly protein and a bit of carbs. If I up my cals, I just get fatter.

I don't eat out much anymore and cut out sugars, and it has helped a bit, but nothing significantly. The fat storages in my body are still relatively stable at the gut level. There is only one way to access those final reserves of fat... To get more hungry.

crazy with deadlifts and squats,

Yeah I try not to, because I just do leg presses and lower body isolation.

but will never be able to have abs, only a very flat stomach.

That's an interesting thing, I do have some abs showing at the top, but my muscles are typically smaller.

But natural 3 times per week lifting heavy should do that trick

Trying but I feel like it's going to take me at least 10 years. Been doing it since like 2012 or 2013.

I'm also thinking that once I get passed this to 9-11% bodyfat, then I can start just eating large protein and risk getting fat without fear.

[–]kayfab0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Insulin resistance try the ketogenic diet, make sure to take your electrolytes, magnesium, sodium, potassium very important, when you become fat adapted your energy level will be the same as when you eat carbs.

[–]kayfab0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Remember we all have different genetics and there is not a one size fit all. You need to experiment on what works for you and what does not.... there is also lots of bromance in the gym and on the internet.

For me i used any kind of creatine i get bloated as shit even at 5g per day and i gain 10 pounds of water, yet some people swear by creatine usage and tell you that muscles are swollen with water... well i gained 2 inches off my gut that i lost 2 week after quitting creatine.

I can no longer take fat burners cause i get fatigue.... etc. I did keto last year lost some weight but i was also losing hair, so i stop i just eat less, started drinking milk, whey protein is the only supplement i use i am 250 pounds so i need the boost. I eat potatoes, rice, and oat meal for my carbs, eggs, etc...... but that works for me and might not work for someone else.

I will start intermittent fasting but no go nuts 16/8 fits the bill for me.

[–]MatSapientia13 points14 points  (2 children) | Copy

Muscles give visual stimulation Testosterone gives you boldness and makes you more relaxed and in control. It’ll also boost your libido which is the drive to attract women. T will motivate you to work harder and build up yourself and life. The combination of the above yields in natural game and resources which composes 90% of the mans SMV.

10% are factors you can’t control like your DNA, social environment, your looks, your history.

Lifting alone while musterbating will kill most of the benefits. It’s a power that’s sometimes hard to tame, but once you do, well.. just wow

[–]RayneXero[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for the advice!

[–]millioneuroextreme0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Masturbating doesn’t affect gains or testosterone. Why does everyone buy into this shit.

The only thing that it does that is bad is lowering libido and giving you unnecessary dopamine.

[–]acp_rdit7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Lift for yourself, chicks liking muscles is a bonus

[–]KuritaT2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Lifting didn't help me at all. Still can't get girls whenever I want to, been lifting 5+ years. All the girls I got were luck I guess, but I never felt like my form made it for me.

[–]Endorsed ContributorFereallyRed2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

[–]T-P-T-W-P1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Lifting boosts all aspects of SMV. You will gain mental benefits as well as the obvious physical improvements. Don’t slack on nutrition as honestly lifting doesn’t really matter if you eat like a child. Unless of course you want to say fuck it and be big/fat and strong, to each his own I guess. Lifting also doesn’t really guarantee anything. BUT it will absolutely raise the threshold of what you are realistically able to achieve with women and more. For example, put two otherwise identical men next to each other, except one is cut up with some noticeable muscle on him and the other is skinny and/or soft. Without ever speaking to either, which do you think women will pick almost unanimously. The jacked guy could be mentally retarded and the non one the real Don Juan. But the one who lifted was able to pass the average visual screening while the other was not. Do you see how this could benefit you?

[–]Lateralanouncer1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is a good question. I would like to add it also depends on your age and what age group of woman you are interested in. For example, post wall 30+ woman will be looking for a man with a career. While 20-25 mark will be focusing on looks. Your purpose or work should always be first, as that is your future. I would say chasing pussy around through your prime is a wast of life and will have a cost latter on. I think asking yourself what kind of man you want to be in 10 years would be the most important and work towards that.

[–]MandingoMaasai1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Lifting helps tremendously. For starters, everything you wear looks better on you. Secondly, I have noticed that women not only approach you more, they feel you up when they do, touching my arms and/ or belly in my personal experience -they basically do the kino. Add to that the confidence boost you experience and you understand what it does for one's SMV.

[–]BuzzLightGear321 1 points [recovered]  (6 children) | Copy

17.362% is the SMV determined from being fit. Is that too low for you? Are you going to give up preemptively?

Srs, if we promoted so heavily, just fucking do it. If you can't follow rule 1, don't even bother on rule 2.

[–]RayneXero[S] 32 points33 points  (2 children) | Copy

Jesus dude, the post was literally just for interests sake because of trends I've seen. I don't care if it did nothing to my SMV. I lift because I want to be healthier.

Seems you can't ask shit in this sub these days without a mongoid fucking chump busting a nut over how much of a dick he can be in the comments.

Meh, whatever, I guess it is what it is...

[–]AntiSharp 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy

Agreed. Just another wannabe drill sergeant

[–]MegladonBass0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Why don’t you stand at parade rest private!!!

[–]xx-Rain_Maker-xx6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

He wants to understand the why of things, there is nothing wrong with that. "if we promoted so heavily, just fucking do it". This mentality is very wrong on so many levels.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorFieldLine10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

What's an even worse mentality is "I understand the reason behind X but I'm a special snowflake so it doesn't apply to me", which is more common than you might think.

So a better attitude is to just do it, even blindly, and then look back and ask why it worked, or why it didn't. Otherwise you get stuck in a paralyzing cycle of not doing anything at all.

[–]L0nerizm1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Big man on campus over here

[–]thisismyfirstrode01 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

As long as you’re sore the day after working out then you’re headed in the right direction. Especially when you first start out. The DMS (google) is what you want.

After each workout if you wake up the next morning with sore muscles then good. Remember, next time you’ll be a little faster and a little stronger doing the same workout.

I’d say your build is the best visual way of letting a girl know if you’re an alpha or a beta (for the most part).

[–]NabroleonBonaparte1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Like enlightenment, you can’t convey with words what it’s like on the other side. That’s how significantly lifting improves your SMV.

After seriously lifting heavy consistently, there’s no need for frame games and such. I just command and they do. Sometimes I do nothing and they still do.

I’ve went to places for snacks and got either a discount or the girl behind the register flat out gave it to me for free.

Until you pass the t shirt test (being able to wear only a t shirt and jeans and look hot), keep lifting.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Lifting is not that much about body but confidence that comes after getting fit and your ability to take off your clothes in front of bunch of strangers and not feel shame. Also it teaches basic discipline too. Cleaning your room and cooking meals is another thing that is important to do for any man.

[–]AceMav210 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Look up zyzz transformation then again that’s all roids

[–]frankgold0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Watch this video, decide for yourself:

[–]Siccunt990 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

x10,go lift.

[–]Endorsed ContributorAuvergnat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It’s simply fundamental.

If you were to picture TRP teaching as layers of wisdom piled onto each other, you would find SMV and its components (including aesthetics) somewhere in the middle. But at the very bottom, at the very core is this: your entire worth to women is predicated on your embodiment of masculinity, and physical strength is the prime cue.

You read people here saying how it also affects your self-esteem, your confidence, how men behave with you, etc. All these, and women’s attraction to good male aesthetics, are just symptoms of this fundamental truth: your apparent strength (or lack of) is the fundamental cue of your worth. Be weak to your own peril.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Maybe 20-40%

[–]RedPillAlphaBigCock0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Lifting is not all about looks which it does help - its about PRIDE, Mental health and strength that improes ALL AREAS of your life

[–]deepthr0at0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The same way brushing your teeth twice a day does.

[–]illusiveab0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

All of life is about the spread and competency of your genetics based on fitness. That's what basic biology tells you if you listen. Lifting not only increases your physical fitness, but it equally enables you to fight, if necessary, for your right to survive and procreate. It seeks to increase your SMV consciously and subconsciously.

[–]hotromeoforyou0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Muscles increase SMV by 0.5 % .. Maybe, just underestimating this one BUT

What muscles bring :





Positive Thinking

People respect you because of Discipline

Association with even stronger and influential people (unless you are fucking dumb )

What lifting brings with it is far more helpful in improving SMV than muscles.

GO... LIFT ...

[–]teveza110 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It depends how dramatic the change.

Up to 5 points if you convert from a skinny weakling to buffed or a fatass to buffed (and lose the belly).

2-3 points if you are already in decent shape (2-3 points is a HUGE difference).

I used to play lots of sports but never thought about LOOKS, so I was on the thin side, strong, very fast, and thin.

In 6 weeks of lifting and drinking milk, eating a lot, I put on 15-20 lbs.

Since it was so fast, I was able to perceive the change in SMV.

I was getting hot girls sending their friends to talk to me for them in clubs, I was getting approached by hot girls, I was getting more IOIs.

A girl who knows me, told me that I used to be a 7 and now I'm a 10. I doubt that I'm a 10, but it provides perspective.

A better body also translates to success in your career and money. I have gotten 3 money making opportunities without even having to do a resume or apply.

I have had 3 females get me into money making opportunities that have resulted in LOTS of money. Its possible that appearance had something to do with it.

Also, when you are more buffed, people respect you more. You probably do better in all areas of life.

[–]TFWnoLTR0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I had women treating me differently in very noticable and even overt ways within two months of getting back into it last year. The confidence boost from the strength increase the posture improvement, and the increase in T all seemed to contribute. Over time it's added some more value with aesthetics.

What's interesting is I gat back into smoking weed a few weeks ago and it put my SMV right back in the shitter again. It's not like all my muscles disappeared or anything. I just started acting like a needy bitch again, and a hot plate who was all over me suddenly is being difficult to get with and probably about to break. Just realized this yesterday and threw out the rest of my weed.

In my opinion SMV for men is anywhere from 50% to 90% about your attitude, and lifting has a strong affect on your attitude.

[–]mleko690 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Well, in my case it hasn't changed anything: year ago when I weighted 97 kilograms I was invisible for women. Today I weight 83 kg, lift for 2,5 months, slowly get muscles and still I am invisible for them. I feel better in my body though, but it's just a weak solace.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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