TheRedArchive

~ archived since 2018 ~

  • Subreddits

      Popular

    • /r/askTRP
    • /r/TheRedPill
    • /r/MarriedRedPill
    • /r/MensRights
    • /r/MGTOW
    • /r/PurplePillDebate
    • /r/WhereAreAllTheGoodMen

      • Other

    • /r/AllPillDebate
    • /r/AlreadyRed
    • /r/altTRP
    • /r/AntiFeminists
    • /r/askFDS
    • /r/askMRP
    • /r/askRPC
    • /r/becomeaman
    • /r/BlackPillScience
    • /r/Chadfish
    • /r/Divorce_Men
    • /r/EverydayMisandry
    • /r/ExRedPill
    • /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
    • /r/FeminismStopsWhen
    • /r/GEOTRP
    • /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
    • /r/MalePsychology
    • /r/Male_Studies
    • /r/MenSupportMen
    • /r/MGTOW2
    • /r/MuslimRedPill
    • /r/newTRP
    • /r/PussyPass
    • /r/PussyPassDenied
    • /r/RedPillBooks
    • /r/RedPillParenting
    • /r/RedPillWives
    • /r/RedPillWomen
    • /r/RedPillWorkplace
    • /r/RPChristians
    • /r/seduction
    • /r/ThankTRP
    • /r/TheRedPillStories
    • /r/trpGAME
    • /r/TRPOffTopic
    • /r/TrueBlackPillMGTOW
    • /r/WhereAllTheGoodMenAre
  • Blogs

      Popular

    • Dalrock
    • Heartiste
    • Illimitable Men
    • Return of Kings
    • Rian Stone
    • The Rational Male
    • Woujo

      • Other

    • Artful Prudence
    • A Voice for Men
    • Alpha Game
    • Black Label Logic
    • Caleb Jones
    • Captain Capitalism
    • Corporate Machiavelli
    • Days of Game
    • Deep Strength
    • Dicipres
    • Donal Graeme
    • Female Misogynist
    • Free Northerner
    • Gaming My Wife
    • Good Looking Loser
    • Hawaiian Libertarian
    • In Mala Fide
    • KillToParty
    • Kill Your Inner Loser
    • Krauser PUA
    • LaidNYC
    • Married Man Sex Life
    • NO MA'AM
    • Omega Virgin Revolt
    • Pook's Mill
    • Random Xpat Rantings
    • Red Pill Theory
    • Red Pill Wifery
    • RedPillDad
    • RedPillDoctor
    • Seasons of Tumult and Discord
    • Sigma Frame
    • The Feminine Woman
    • The Futurist
    • The Masculine Principle
    • The Modern Man
    • The New Modern Man
    • The Obsidian Files
    • The Power Moves
    • The Private Man
    • The Red Pill Room
    • The Red Quest
    • The Rules Revisited
    • The Spearhead
    • Troy Francis
    • Wintery Knight
    • Young Man Red Pill
  • Books
  • Dictionary
  • @TRParchive
  • Please help TheRedArchive stay alive

Q4BPW What does "to be a good wife" mean to most women?

sadomasochrist
November 29, 2017
4 upvotes
/r/PurplePillDebate
Download the post

Want to save the post for offline use on your device? Choose one of the download options below:

PDF TXT EPUB
Share
Share Tweet Reddit Email
Post Information
Title Q4BPW What does "to be a good wife" mean to most women?
Author

sadomasochrist
Upvotes 4
Comments 137
Date November 29, 2017 1:19 PM UTC
(8 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/7gd6nn/q4bpw_what_does_to_be_a_good_wife_mean_to_most/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4bpw-what-does-to-be-a-good-wife-mean-to-most.264673
https://theredarchive.com/post/264673
Top posts by sadomasochrist

The official "an incel murdered somebody" thread for onlookers, bystanders & media suit types (ignore this and publish a story saying we are just like them for that sweet adrev)

846 upvotes
April 28, 2018
/r/TheRedPill

Women should no longer be sent to prison unless they have committed a serious crime says Justice Secretary

583 upvotes
July 5, 2018
/r/TheRedPill

Better to die a monster than a milksop

517 upvotes
June 3, 2018
/r/TheRedPill

For the Incels - The only post you need, so you can shut up. Forever.

457 upvotes
January 3, 2018
/r/TheRedPill

Protectors vs providers, AFBB. Killing the blue pill dream.

369 upvotes
January 12, 2018
/r/TheRedPill

The fundamental conflict of the rational man when confronted with hypergamy, a repost of what I found to be the archetypical covert female initiated destruction of a marriage. A failed effort to have him kill the puppy.

352 upvotes
June 19, 2018
/r/TheRedPill

"Older men getting with 20 year olds is a TRP revenge fantasy..." Oops! Maybe not!

314 upvotes
May 7, 2018
/r/TheRedPill

Stacy's Credo : Death of the plow horse

281 upvotes
March 25, 2018
/r/TheRedPill

Comments

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

Why would we know what it means to most women? We aren't mind readers.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] -5 points-4 points-3 points 8 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

Why would we know what it means to most women? We aren't mind readers.

Well....

As an epistemological position, solipsism holds that knowledge of anything outside one's own mind is unsure

To be clear, this isn't the point of this post, but you are sure demonstrating it well.

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this 13 points14 points15 points 8 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Wow, it's solipsism to say that you can't know what anyone else is thinking? Jesus Christ.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

No. You've posited "to know." Solipsism rests on to be unsure. An inability to abstract and to considered that abstract reasoning to be of any value.

existing in thought or as an idea but not having a physical or concrete existence.

To say "you can't know" is simply being skeptical, which is fine. To say that you wouldn't be able to abstract this conceptually, would be solipsism.

To say "you don't know" is stating that you never considered anything but your own thoughts, so to be solipsistic.

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Solipsism rests on to be unsure. An inability to abstract and to considered that abstract reasoning to be of any value.

Where are you getting this from? Dictionary definition of solipsism: "the view or theory that the self is all that can be known to exist." I'm not saying that it doesn't exist. I'm saying that I (and probably most other people) do not know.

To say "you don't know" is stating that you never considered anything but your own thoughts, so to be solipsistic.

No, it's saying that I know the own limitations of my knowledge. Or, are you going to say that it's solipsism when I say that I don't know string theory?

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link

Again, I'm not asking you to know. I'm asking you to abstract.

It would be more akin to me asking you "do you think most people know string theory?"

You can't know that (unless you studied it, and even then, you could be irrationally skeptical and claim that you only know that it's a reasonable assumption based on the evidence), but you could abstract that it's unlikely they do. So you could be reasonably certain that most people, probably do not know string theory.

That is not something you know, but you could reasonably understand it to be true, in your estimation.

To state that you couldn't abstract that, would either be a demonstration of some degree of autism (which an inability to abstract is a big part of) or extreme ego-centrism.

This is more of a philosophical debate at this point and really is off course of the question, which is really very simple.

Anyone arguing that they can't abstract this conceptually isn't really saying anything good about themselves. This is super low level stuff and if you can't do that, you're the guy in the locker room asking yourself "loop swoop and pull or bunny ears?" while everyone else is out playing basketball.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm guessing he wants me to abstract from what I know? That seems pretty pointless though considering it will probably be way off from reality.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Do you think most women are transgender?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This thread has a lot of Poe's law in it.

[–]ivegotsomequestions0Purple Pill Woman 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Op, you'd be amazed at how little the good wife concept gets discussed outside of pill circles. For people in progressive areas, it isn't that they're surrounded by stuff about being a good wife that they fail to internalize, it's that no one brings it up at all. You imagine that your friends and colleagues have ideas of what it is, but they'll never share them.

So all you're left with is some old school tropes and the knowledge that some women elsewhere in the country would describe a good wife as x. You don't have enough information to talk about most women.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I am not talking about most women at all, it's Q4BPW.

[–]ivegotsomequestions0Purple Pill Woman 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You're asking them to say something about most women. Not about most bpw, about most women.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Correct.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq. 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I don’t think there is a clear consensus among “most women” that isn’t very generalized. Traits like loyalty, dedication, being supportive and loving probably are across the board in most women’s perception of what a “good wife” is, but that’s very general. A traditional/conservative values woman is probably going to have different views on this when you get more specific than I would, as a more liberal woman in a less traditional marriage. They might, for instance, think a “good wife” is one who wants to be a SAHM or who always defers to her husband.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm not asking for a consensus between two binomial distributions, instead the conception (thanks Atlas) of a good wife held by the highest number of people.

You've given great insight into the thought process of the sharper side of the far left, thank you.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq. 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm not asking for a consensus between two binomial distributions, instead the conception (thanks Atlas) of a good wife held by the highest number of people.

I get that, my point is other than very general and somewhat ambiguous qualities, it’s hard to say since women will vary on their views. Who is to say which views are held by the highest number of women? I’m not so sure on that one.

Also, I wouldn’t really call myself the “far left.” I’d consider myself traditionally liberal if that makes sense. The “left” these days embodies a whole range of positions, some of which I cannot get behind at all.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Didn't mean to bin you far left, mixed you up. I remember your replies now.

Who is to say which views are held by the highest number of women?

More accurately, what do you (since you are a BPW) estimate to be the most commonly held views of what means to be a good wife?

You're only speaking of your perception (estimation), of the most widely held conception.

I think Atlas had an interesting point, she posited that the question itself was "tradcon." So do you think it would be fair to say that the most commonly held idea of what it means to be a good wife entails, is to be a traditional, conservative wife, roughly speaking?

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq. 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Idk, I thought most women leaned more liberal these days, which isn’t to say a liberal-leaning woman can’t still adhere to traditional roles like be a SAHM (my sis would be an example of that). I’m struggling, like others ITT, to definitively opine on what most women believe a “good wife” is. I would imagine a lot of them do believe it means being submissive to their husbands, probably trad types and religious types (I would think those would go hand in hand) but are these women “most” women? I sort of doubt it but it’s not something I’ve actually looked into.

[–]hyperrreal1 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (11 children) | Copy Link

OP, it's great that you participating so actively in this thread. But this is a reminder that we ask users to participate in good-faith. To us that means "a sincere intention to be fair, open, and honest."

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

I am being fair open and honest, that doesn't mean I need to let someone reframe my question. In fact, you can easily see and understand that I am by seeing some answers are left alone.

"To most women" is the important part of the question that many posters do not want to accept as part of their answer. Some want to reframe it as "spouse."

These are different questions, and it does not mean I am participating in bad faith to point out that these replies are strawmen, because they are.

Furthermore, all of the answers are answers. It's a question, and even not answering the question is an answer in itself.

[–]hyperrreal4 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (9 children) | Copy Link

To me, a part of treating others fairly in a discussion is openness to other framings and interpretations. Most discussions/debates are are determined by how the initial topic or issue is framed/setup.

I tend to see a fixation on maintaining a certain framing as reflecting a desire to push others into a certain position. It's one thing to do this in an argument or formal debate, but in a more general discussion thread, this can create misunderstanding and antagonism.

It's natural and productive for people to push back against how issues/questions are setup, and attempts to control that too tightly may indicate a lack of openness and consideration for how others may see things differently.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Another poster said "this question is different" and that is for good reason. What you would like, is for this question to fall within a paradigm that has already been answered daily, in half these threads, since this sub was created and this debate started 60 years ago.

That isn't a question worth asking. This is.

[–]hyperrreal4 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link

You have no idea what I would like. And that’s not what this is about.

The point is, you can believe your question is the only one worth asking. But others may disagree, and attempting to force them back into your lane isn’t fair or open.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

People who have debated at the margin have opened my eyes to things. I'm open. I'm also fair, a non-answer, is an answer.

But just as they want to say "this is my answer" they can't be salty with what I gather from their non-answer.

Atlas debated me at the margin and made me understand the word I'm looking for is "conceptualization." That is what is really being discussed. She posited that maybe they don't even have one. This is actual debate taking place. Others are bellyaching or stating related opinions.

Becky ESQ and I are debating the question as it is intended right now.

This is all in good faith, it's just revealing a lot of bad things about the nature of far left types in my opinion.

The nature of the discontent here seems to be the fact that certain sub populations dislike being incongruent in their desires or belief systems to traditionally held ideas of what a marriage is.

So what is revealed here is notable, just not expected.

[–]aznphenix 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I mean, your responses in this thread will just make people not want to debate with you in the future if anything.

[–][deleted] 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]aznphenix 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Lol special snowflakes. I think some of them see some patterns, they're just hesitant to state that it is a general pattern necessarily without information to back it. Some don't see the patterns because of the bubbles of where they live. Some are aware that they and their general bubbles aren't representative of most people and are therefore hesitant to give an answer they don't really know for sure. And other times, it's not necessarily that most people of a group will hold certain views (this is technically more word lawyering, as I did see you specify to sublime that you do mean the largest quantity of people who will hold those views, but words have meanings and should be used in such a way, especially when interacting with strangers - and I think is another reason why you get pushback from BP, they want nuance to statements that 'generalizations' don't cover and which is parts of some of their dislike of TRP ).

Asking people what they think most others think is never a reflection of what most others actually think, just a reflection of where they live, if they're giving a shallow answer of what they know most others they know think, or a reflection of what they themselves may think. Like Highog said in the other thread, to get an objective measure of what most women actually think is a good wife, you'd have to ask a large representative sample of women what they think being a good wife is and then finding a consensus on those answers - they're not being solipsistic to say they don't know, or that they don't know with the information they have.

If you're trying to use it as a metric to identify egalitarians/non trads though, fair enough I guess.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/7gfm2q/one_question_that_will_help_unplug_you_any_time/

You can understand the method by looking at this post.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (80 children) | Copy Link

Same thing as being a good spouse and a good husband.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (35 children) | Copy Link

You think the traits of a good husband and a good wife are identical and men and women have identical expectations of each other and how each will fulfill they're role in marriage?

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points15 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

similar enough to have the same overarching guidelines.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Interesting, are you married?

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (30 children) | Copy Link

The traits of a good husband and wife are similar enough. Not identical but close enough to lump them together as "Being a good spouse."

Expectations are a completely different thing. People don't know what marriage is and their expectations may or may not have any bearing on what actually makes them happy and intimate with their spouse.

Edit: somehow I replied twice to the same question, sorry

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (29 children) | Copy Link

To be clear, you're answering a different question. I will not say you're arguing in bad faith, but I will point out some things I feel you're not taking into account.

First, the question was "what does it mean to be a good wife to most women?"

This was not, what is something analogous to "a good wife, to you."

You have already modified your answer that a "good wife" and "good husband" are "close enough" to "being a good spouse."

But that wasn't the question, so you've replied with a straw man, since these are not the same things.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

Yes, they are the same things, which is the point.

It's not a strawman, I'm correcting the false premise of your question, which is that a good wife has different qualities than a good husband.

The qualities which make a good marriage are in both parties.

And that is why we correct your false premise by saying "a good spouse."

The indicators of a good marriage early on are also gender neutral.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

There was no premise to the question, you're establishing a premise. You're reconstructing a new narrative to the question. This is exactly what a strawman is.

And that is why we correct your false premise by saying "a good spouse."

Now it's clear you're arguing in bad faith.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

No, I'm answering your question, but you don't like how I answered.

These qualities are gender neutral. They are necessary for a good husband, a good wife, a good spouse.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

You've already given several different answers, you'd need to actually pick one for me to understand what your answer is.

1) Most women believe that a good husband, and a good wife are the same thing. (refuse to answer quote)

2) Most women believe that a good husband and a good wife, are similar. (refuse to answer quote)

3) The description you've given accurately describes, what most women believe, is a good wife AND (1 or 2).

4) The description you've given is not what I believe most women think is a good wife. Instead, I think most women....

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

For the umpteenth time, these qualities are gender neutral. They are necessary for a good spouse be it a wife or a husband.

Yes I'd wager most women (most people) think this.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

So #1?

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

the premise to the Q is that there is soemthing distinct about "good wife", with ascertainable qualities

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I am being clear as I possibly can, there is no premise, so long as the question is not restated in a way more preferable to the person answering.

But you have given me an idea of how to restate this question in a way less open to being muddied.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

do you know what a premise is?

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There is no premise, because I appended most women. In order for their to be a premise, you'd have to claim that there is no belief system of what a good wife is, for most women.

To dispute good wife, instead, someone would have to take a non-majority position. Which the question is designed to avoid, since the discussion then is simply solipsistic by design then.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

why are you asking left wing feminists such a tradcon Q? you dont really seem to grasp who BP people are

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Why is it a tradcon question?

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

"good wife" assumes 100s things, among them gender roles and nonegalitarian marriage

why are a bunch of feminists going to have some ideal image of a "good wife"?

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

What does it mean to be a good wife to most women...

Not

What does it mean to be a good wife to you...

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

do you think feminist women have a CONCEPTION of "a good wife"?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I could certainly describe the patriarchal ideal of a good wife.

I might vomit in my mouth at the thought of me filling out that role, but I could describe it. :D

Just to be clear, if it works for other women then that's great. Would not work for me.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

That is the purpose of the question, to ascertain that (which is actually just a good faith question). I actually was not expecting to confirm rampant solipsism within the far left. That's just been an interesting revelation of a simple, banal question.

[–]Butt-Factory 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Same principals, just expressed differently

[–]catemlBlue Pill Woman 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

Yes, this. (Not married am engaged in very LTR, but also based on marriages of others I have witnessed over my life).

For all the 'So you saying that men and women are the same!?!?!' - the almost universal traits of what makes a good spouse are non gender specific. Kindness, being supportive, attentive to needs, caring, loyal, sexual/romantic fulfilment and listening skills.
The 'traditional' elements of the specifically 'wife' role (so being the more nurturing to children, keeping the house, being 'soft' in nature, responsibility for social life) will very much depend on the couple at hand, how their life together works in terms of each others' strengths and what draws them to each other. Even relatively traditional and conservative marriages would differ heavily in terms of what gives the woman the 'wife-ness', and any of the many marriages that differ from that template even more so.

If you ask 100 happily married men 'what makes your wife great?' you're likely going to get some wildly differing answers, and the common factors will be likely grouped around the 'good spouse' model.

[–]GridReXXThe "XX" in my name means I'M A WOMAN 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Best answer.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago* (18 children) | Copy Link

Bingo.

I'd also wager that in an analysis like that, the gender specific traits which would be mentioned wouldn't be critical to the success of the marriage.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

So then you confirm that a good spouse, and good wife are not the same.

So as I posited, you have not, and refuse, to answer the question.

[–]catemlBlue Pill Woman 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well a wife is a spouse, so in that respect the traits of 'what makes a good wife' will be included in 'what makes a great spouse'. A good wife is a good spouse, just of the specifically female kind.

What you appear to be looking for is 'what are the gender specific traits required to be a good female spouse that are different to those required to be a good male spouse'. What I and others have replied is that we believe those features will be more specific to what the individual doing the marrying wants. So for example 'nurturing' might be important to a man who wants children, but not to a man who doesn't. 'Takes pride in housework' might be to a more traditional couple, but not to one who share chores or have a maid. 'Soft of temperament' might be important to some men, but not to a man who is more attracted to doms or more 'fiery' sorts. Those are also all things that some women are attracted to in a man (a lot of women would want a husband who is nurturing and likes to keep the house clean, for example).

Also I assume you're talking about 'in a straight marriage', but I don't see any reason why any of the above listed wouldn't be important to a lesbian woman as well.

What has been argued is not that there is no gender grouping in spouse preferences, just that the idea of 'well what makes a good wife specifically, instead of just generally someone its easy and pleasurable to spend your life with' differs too much from person to person to actually be answerable.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago* (14 children) | Copy Link

I did many times. You're having trouble with nuance. You simply don't like my answer.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

Nuance would be great, you've intentionally remained vague.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

I've been very clear.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Then answer the number question. Intentionally vague.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Life tip: You can't force people to do what you want.

My answer was clear and was given multiple times.

You don't like it, and you're struggling.

That's your problem, not mine

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Nothing to struggle about, posted to TRP already. Thought I had some rocks to put in the tumbler but found a gold mine instead.

[–]aznphenix 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No, they're saying the general qualities are the same. The very specifics (the 'traditional' elements that were listed) are subsets of the general qualities of a good spouse. They answered the question.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

Putting your partner and, more importantly, your marriage before yourself. This can mean a lot of things: being generous in how you view his contributions, communicating clearly, being able to shake off small issues, sacrificing short term happiness for a long term goal, and generally picking your battles. (This makes for a good spouse not just wife TBH.)

Would you agree with this interpretation of a good wife?

I understand you want to answer a different question, but in an answer which only covers the scope of, a good wife, do you think the answer above is accurate to your view of "what goes a good wife mean to most women?"

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

This is what a good husband is as well.

I know you want to make this a gendered thing, but it's not.

These are the very things about my husband that make our marriage stand the test of time and adversity.

Having a husband that isn't capable of the above is breeding ground for conflict and resentment.

These are the qualities of a good spouse. Husband and wife, husband and husband, wife and wife, etc

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

This is the 2nd time you have not responded to the question posed to you. Are you sure you're replying in good faith?

The question is not, in any capacity, what is a good husband?

This question has an extremely specific scope, if you're not willing to answer it, just state that you don't want to answer the question instead.

I will restate the question being asked.

Putting your partner and, more importantly, your marriage before yourself. This can mean a lot of things: being generous in how you view his contributions, communicating clearly, being able to shake off small issues, sacrificing short term happiness for a long term goal, and generally picking your battles. (This makes for a good spouse not just wife TBH.)

Would you agree with this interpretation of a good wife?

I understand you want to answer a different question, but in an answer which only covers the scope of, a good wife, do you think the answer above is accurate to your view of "what goes a good wife mean to most women?"

[–]shoup88Report me bitch 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

You can't force people to say what you want. You're going to have to accept that people will answer your questions using their own thoughts and words and ideas. That's what debate is.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

They are free to answer how they wish, but if you're answering a different question, then...

Strawman : To intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.

My argument is asking a BPW, what most women believe a good wife means.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

A question is not an argument, and you've been very insistent that there is no underlying premise in your post, so how can there be a strawman? You're using that word wrong.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

You are correct, I replied incorrectly. My question is stated carefully, and some have answered it within the confines of the question.

So more accurately, I'm pointing out when posters have misinterpreted my question.

For those that haven't answered the question as stated, I've given them some clarifying questions to either ensure they're answering the question as posed, or if they've mistaken the question for something else.

In some cases, some posters are refusing to answer the question as stated. And in some cases, posters have shown they are unable to abstractly reason, what most women would mean.

This post wasn't intentionally created to demonstrate solipsism, but it seems to have sort of spawned from it, which is very interesting.

Some of the replies are avoiding the element most women, and that is actually the most important part of this question, in my opinion.

Which is why I'm asking clarifying questions here. I'm not looking for specific answers, just answers that conform to the question as stated.

Sometimes I need to ask more questions to ensure that the question, as stated, is being answered. Someone avoiding for instance, a list for 4 statements, pick one, would demonstrate they're not interested in the question at all, bad faith.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

You kind of just come across like a dick who wants to control the conversation with an iron fist. Maybe you should clarify what you're asking by expanding on the post? Most questions directed at RP or BP are asking what they think about it.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

The question is right in the title. No one needs to come in here, but if you come in here and misinterpret a clear title, then I'm not sure what to say.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I answered already.

These are the qualities that make for a good wife, a good husband, a good spouse.

These qualities are not gender specific. Perhaps you'd like them to be but they're not.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Contradicted this in another response that they had different elements, thereby not the same.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

No, there is no contradiction.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The same and similar to are not interchangeable. So sloppy and inconsistent I suppose is better to describe it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Which is why I didn't pick any of your choices.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think almost all women would consider being "a good wife" to include being supportive of your spouse, looking after their needs, being agreeable/not picking fights, and doing what you can to make their life better.

There are things not included in that list that I would consider necessary, and there are things that more tradcon women might want to add, but I believe those are the common denominators for what being a good wife entails to most women.

(I also think that most of those things are equally necessary for being a good husband, but that's neither here nor there.)

[–]quotient_isPurple Pill 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_(United_Nations)

Given that so many of the most populated countries in the world are highly religiously/philosophically conservative with high rates of religious participation, I imagine "most women" globally believe a good wife to have whatever qualities their religions/philosophical frameworks ascribe to that role.

These typically include obedience, submissiveness, gentleness, concern for the home and family, modest but also aesthetically pleasing to their husbands, hardworking, frugal, etc. etc.

Western countries are somewhat less populated than other areas of the world, so western values and ideas of "the good wife" are not likely representative of "most women."

I fall squarely in the progressive western sphere of values, but I am not most women.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Sorry, my unstated presupposition was USA.

[–]aznphenix 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Why just the USA? That's a horribly huge missing assumption from the OP.

[–]DebatePonyLet's ride! 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I don't know what it means to most people. I only know what it means to me. And since you aren't asking for that, I guess I won't answer.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I don't know what it means to most people. I only know what it means to me. And since you aren't asking for that, I guess I won't answer.

To be clear, this isn't the point of this post, but you are sure demonstrating it well.

As an epistemological position, solipsism holds that knowledge of anything outside one's own mind is unsure

[–]DebatePonyLet's ride! 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

To be clear, this isn't the point of this post, but you are sure demonstrating it well.

Not so much, mostly just avoiding making a false consensus based off my own point of view by attributing it to others, and thus falling into the false consensus effect.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Perception can not be false in this context, only biased.

[–]ivegotsomequestions0Purple Pill Woman 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You're conflating philosophical solipsism with the solipsistic trait talked about by red pillers.

I'm betting that not many people here subscribe to solipsism as a philosophy.

As for the trait, everyone is solipsistic in that way.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Certainly not everyone. Being unable to perceive a conceptualization of a commonly understood concept is certainly not trait of a developed male.

There are people in this thread that are claiming they literally can not even know or conceptualize this.

Which is distinct from apathy, which would instead be ego-centrism.

[–]ivegotsomequestions0Purple Pill Woman 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Developed males have plenty of trouble understanding concepts when those concepts are commonly understood only by people not like them. There is some variability, but everyone has trouble going too far outside what they know.

[–]figthief2 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link

Most women in 2017 in first world countries think being a good wife entails being independent but agreeable, hardworking, earning a living, and presenting the family favorably to the world through social networks and the right types of consumption.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Most women in 2017

I think your distinction of first world countries is fine. But do you believe your statement is still most accurate if you are counting most women?

So if you were to round up 100,000 women at random in the united states, do you think this answer would be your best, and most accurate answer?

I understand these 100,000 women would have outliers, so there would be some grandmothers in there, some of them would be radfems etc.

But do you think that your statement would shift slightly to "the right" if you did this? I'm only asking, because my gut read of "women in 2017" is a way of stating "most progressive women."

Which was not the question I posed. Though I would say that most women would find your answer acceptable. Even traditional ones.

[–]figthief3 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

You asked most women. 2017 is the current year. I never lived in 1917, for example.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Most women, alive today. Sorry for not specifying alive today. But please examine the important parts of my last reply. Until you answer at the margin, I assume your answer was for "progressive women."

[–]figthief3 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

Yes. Most women alive today. A Baby Boomer grew up in the 60s for example. The US and Western Europe has been modern for while now.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

So you do not believe your answer would become more traditional if you rounded up 100,000 women at random?

[–]figthief4 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

No, I do not. Then again, I live in a major metro in a 1st world country.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I feel like you are recognizing a bias in your answer, but your answer is fine to me. Learning a ton from every single response here.

It's a fantastic thread, even if feathers are being rustled.

[–]darla10 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

A “good wife” employs a uniquely feminine repertoire of behaviors to foster a good marriage.

[–]haikufunNon-practicing hyperphagist/hypergamist 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

Same as what it takes to be a good person and a contributing team player

[–][deleted] 8 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]haikufunNon-practicing hyperphagist/hypergamist 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Is there anything special or unique about being a good spouse?

[–][deleted] 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]haikufunNon-practicing hyperphagist/hypergamist 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

13 years

[–][deleted] 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]haikufunNon-practicing hyperphagist/hypergamist 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You mean what works for my marriage vs everyone else's? That wasn't the OP question.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's just a demonstration of solipsism.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes. It takes a particular skill set to be a good wife.

[–]freejosephk 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

yeah, what are they, free thinking individuals tasked to describe an umbrella to fit everyone under? how dare they!

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Putting your partner and, more importantly, your marriage before yourself. This can mean a lot of things: being generous in how you view his contributions, communicating clearly, being able to shake off small issues, sacrificing short term happiness for a long term goal, and generally picking your battles. (This makes for a good spouse not just wife TBH.)

Would you agree with this interpretation of your reply then?

[–]haikufunNon-practicing hyperphagist/hypergamist 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No. You both come first. Haha. I'm married to a guy who loves fighting every battle. I would be eaten alive if followed this advice. Great communication is a must.

[–]AutoModerator[M] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link

Attention!

  • You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.

  • For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.

  • If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.

  • OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch 13 points14 points15 points 8 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

What's the point of this post? You seem to resent everyone who's answering

[–][deleted] 8 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]shoup88Report me bitch 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

So the point is some sort of gotcha? Like haha, you know what you think better than what you know other people think?

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Apparently an egalitarian bubble is being in happy marriages IRL and the real world is terps that make baseless suppositions about everyone else's marriage.

[–][deleted] 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]shoup88Report me bitch 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

So you don't know what the point of it is either?

[–]Aaren_Augustine0 points 8 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

If you are androgenous, all inclusive and ambiguous then there will be no point to define or stand for anything.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I am not androgynous or ambiguous. I don't know what you mean by an individual being all inclusive?

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq. 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But egalitarian relationships can and do work. That doesn’t mean 100% of everything is equal, it means there are hives and takes on both sides which generally equal out.

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Translation: They are not giving me the answer I want, in order to satisfy my confirmation bias.

Honestly it's just so dumb to ask a question, and then attack the responders just because you don't like their answers. If you did not want to hear the answers of different kinds of people, then STFU and don't ask questions. Jesus.

[–]Aaren_Augustine1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Shit, I'd be happy with a direct answer, reguardless if I agrred or not.

Lol, attack

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That’s the response they gave him. And he decided to respond with personal attacks, and lecture them on how they were wrong.

Don’t ask questions if you don’t want the answers, and you think you already know everything. It’s that simple.

[–]allweknowisD 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

If you don’t give an answer which OP likes then you’re not answering in good faith. What a ridiculous thread

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Plenty of good faith answers in the thread. Do you want links?

[–]allweknowisD 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

All I’ve seen is you complaining about people not answering how you’d like them or ignoring other comments.

You came here for a particular answer and you’re not open to the discussion migrating from that. Now that, is discussing in bad faith

Edit: I also didn’t claim there was no good faith answers. I said you’re calling out bad faith if you don’t like their answer

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The answers I'm ignoring are good faith answers. I'm asking clarifying questions until it can be ruled out.

Look at my exchange with fig to understand.

[–]allweknowisD 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

One good faith exchange in the whole thread. I think you’re clarifying my point pretty well

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Still talking to Becky, untouched replies in root are good faith. Sorry, your point doesn't stand to scrutiny.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

In which op critiques responses based on style rather than addressing their content, and then hilariously accuses respondents of arguing in bad faith and dodging the point.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Trick question. There's no such thing as a good wife because forcing a man into marriage is the worst thing you could ever do. There are no good wives, only good forever girlfriends (and even then, you have to invent a new kind of anal to give your forever boyfriend to qualify.)

[–]DebatePonyLet's ride! 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

OMG it was right in front of us the whole time! How did we silly blue (bluish in my case) people miss it?!?!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What is the point of only polling Blues?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Most Western women seem to have an egalitarian and non-traditional interpretation of what makes for a good wife. This includes basic tenets like commitment, compromise, and affection.

Browse all authors
You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

© TheRedArchive 2026. All rights reserved.
created by /u/dream-hunter