"Women go for what they like" and the "do I, do you, does he, does she deserve xy"-mindset

figthief · 2017-08-08T01:27:39+00:00

Look, I dont know what to tell you since it'll just be an anecdata war. All I know is, in terms of self doubt, men have less of it than women. There is "proof" of this in so many things (intelligence, attractiveness, etc)

This "huh, even ugly women hit on me despite making myself attractive" is not an Epiphany women get the privilege of having in their middle age. Attractive women live with it from about 12 on, and unattractive women get the privilege of witnessing it acutely from the same age onward

RockinSocksII · 2017-08-08T00:52:03+00:00

So what royalties are you expecting on this novel?

TheBookOfSeil · 2017-08-08T01:37:31+00:00

This idea of "deserving" something, as if relationships were a selfish transaction,

You mean it isn't? That's the attitude I perceive when I observe most people that are in a relationship: "What do you have to offer me."

is much more male.

That's not true. I see it equally from both sides.

Moving on, I'll address the TL;DR portion, because I might be here for a good hour or two if I try to address the main body of your post.

Women often just think about what they like much more than men do. They often don't think about what they can realistically get, too.

I think this depends on individualistic viewpoints. Sure, the majority of people who enter into the dating world seem to all be on the same page, but I suppose getting into that environment will either cause someone to change their views about relationships, or cause them to give up because they're constantly being used and cast aside for a "better option."

Men think about dating more in a transactional way and do think in terms of "deserving somebody".

Again, I see that from both sides, and it can be present in anyone who thinks, or has friends or family that say to them "You deserve better. You deserve a great man/woman. How you haven't found someone by now is beyond me. Anyone would be happy to have a guy/girl like you in their lives." You hear it all the time. It's the uplifting stuff that does nothing to help a person get into a successful relationship.

Do you also think it's gender specific?

Not particularly, no. These are societal viewpoints being pushed and adopted by certain people. Anyone can say that they "deserve better" than what they've got, or what they're getting, and I think it stems from feelings of self-worth and self-esteem that would cause them to think this way.

Do you think that it is getting worse, too?

Worse? I can't really say if it's getting worse, or if I can even classify it as being a better/worse situation.

Women don't say "I haven't found a man who deserves me", they say "I haven't found a man I like".

Just wanted to touch on this as an ending point, because it was at the top.

Saying "I haven't found a man I like," can be construed to mean "I haven't found a man I want," which could mean "I haven't found a man that makes me feel satisfied," which in turn could mean "I haven't found a man I deserve." It seems to be just a roundabout way of saying almost the same thing, except with different focus areas.

I suppose you could say that men seek external satisfaction more than internal, and women seek internal satisfaction more than external (with varying degrees of difference spread throughout the population). That's why you have seemingly different interests, but the reasoning behind them is comparatively similar.

[deleted] · 2017-08-08T02:06:28+00:00

Do you also think it's gender specific?

No. It's more likely to be specific to the people who are perpetually single and complain there are no good options. I have both male and female friends that complain about this despite having perfectly nice men/women interested in them.

Do you think that it is getting worse, too?

It's hard to say, but it seems like the conversation on PPD has changed from "we can't get any women!" to "we can't get any women except hambeasts!" which lowers my sympathy to zero. I also have no sympathy for women who insist that the guy makes similar or more money than them. There are plenty of great guys that work in lower income jobs or don't have a college degree.

People can have whatever standards they want, but if you are having problems finding someone then chances are it's your standards that are too high.

Electra_Cute · 2017-08-08T00:41:51+00:00

Thoughts?

This is over 3000 words, may you put a summary at the end of your post please and thank you. What do you want our thoughts on?

Love8Death · 2017-08-08T01:09:12+00:00

A tldr at the top would be nice for others.

flamethrowup · 2017-08-08T02:43:38+00:00

I read through all of this. Insightful stuff and illustrates a mentality that unconfident men should learn. As long as you're working to improve yourself, confidently go after what you want. On some level, you have to believe that you deserve the good things you want.

[deleted] · 2017-08-08T03:15:04+00:00

Do you also think it's gender specific?

I don't. I think it's a confidence issue. And I think this goes beyond just mate selection. I look at how my husband and some of his male friends approach job hunts: "I want that job. I don't have some of the skills they say they "require"- I'll send my resume in and the worst that can happen is they don't call me." Whereas many other folks (statistically women mostly) won't even apply if they don't have the required skills/experience.

Romantically, there's likely also something about the rate at which men and women approach that has to do with that and how a girl can introduce herself to a guy without it being overtly sexual in nature. She can put herself out there without putting herself out there in certain ways.

Do you think that it is getting worse, too?

Well I think the word "worse" infers that there's an issue with this approach and I don't think this "deserving" mindset is really all that healthy. So my guess is that "I go for what I like" is getting more common and that it's a good thing. But that leads me to...

personal anecdotes

I think this is part of the same phenomena: One of the best lessons I learned/continue to learn as an actor is knowing my type. It keeps me from wasting time and tears on shit that I am not suited for. That said, sometimes, I just audition for what I like. If there is a role on my bucket list and I know no one like me has ever been cast in that role, I'll audition anyway. I have gotten to play some dream roles because of this. The last one, the director got drunk at the opening night party and admitted he had basically pre-cast the production but then I came in. He said, "I had to cast you. You literally didn't give me a choice." That said, when I don't get roles I like b/c I know I am not the traditional "type"- it's totally fine! It's not a value judgement. I can't be 5'10" or 5', and I can't be 75 or 22 today. Knowing that helps me better prepare emotionally for the likelihood of getting cast. It also lets me know when my skill is slipping (when I don't get roles well within my type/range) or when it's just out of my control. Knowing what you "deserve" is important, letting it rule your decisions means you might be missing out on something awesome.

wtknight · 2017-08-08T03:36:39+00:00

It might be gender specific because I think women know if they try to date what they like, they'll still get attention from those guys because guys will still often give attention to women below their league. Obviously, a lot of time those guys only want to use them for casual sex. On the other hand, women much more rarely give attention to men below their league, and to men it can be a humiliating experience to be outright rejected by a woman who really wants nothing to do with you at all.

As for myself, I stopped caring about leagues when I started caring more about finding a woman whose personality fit well with my own and less about how hot she is.

pinkgoldrose · 2017-08-08T04:24:13+00:00

Regarding my comment... I'd like to say, I don't think all men view relationships as selfish transactions, just some pills :P

And women have to find a man who's in the intersection of "men I like" and "men who like me", so they won't necessarily go for Chad if they don't think Chad will like them.

Seems like your anecdotes 1 and 2 were about very confident and outspoken women!

OfSpock · 2017-08-08T06:12:00+00:00

I think you are suffering from survivorship bias. Heaps of guys who weren't even close to my league have hit on me. And I know a couple of women approaching forty who are still single and don't want to be. Holding out didn't pay off for them.

BookwormJane · 2017-08-08T02:48:11+00:00

I look for a man who I LIKE (I have to admire him) and who DESERVES me as well (I know what I can bring to the table in a relationship and I want to be with a man who appreciates my effort too).

[deleted] · 2017-08-08T08:49:32+00:00

Okay, I just read your TL;DR so it might be that I'll repeat something you've already stated in your post.

I honestly think men more often think about what they like instead of thinking about what "they deserve". Now, this is actually a good thing because in reality deserve's got nothing to do with dating. But it's a mentality I completely lack so it always stands out when I see it in other men. For example, David Lynch loves hot young women, both in the real world and in his role as Gordon on Twin Peaks. There was a scene with him and a young French girl. Now I cannot imagine being an old out of shape man and hitting on a young hot girl. I'd feel like I wouldn't deserve it because I wouldn't be young and hot myself. When I think about why I'm alone it's always about me not being good enough to deserve anything else. I've found that not a lot of men share that way of thinking. I think it's more common with women.

So I'd say the deserving mindset is more common with women than men actually. I mean, there's been studies that show women are happier with guys uglier than they are. That might be because they start having self-doubts and insecurities when they're with a very hot guy. Not just about cheating but also about them not deserving the guy.

Love8Death · 2017-08-08T01:07:42+00:00

Women like what they like, get what they like.

Men get what they can, and believe they can.

What you like is based on feelings, the female ego and mind is feeling based.

What you believe you can get is based on beliefs, the male ego and mind are belief based.

Want to know when magic happens?

When you are more towards the top, both genders can act more like each other, and become all the more able to get both what they like and what they believe they can get.

Your point about incels is true too, most wish they were girls, and act like they are, worthy of sex by virtue of existing. It's just that they actually suck at what gets women their most success, social skills. They have the beliefs of a girl, without the skills of a girl, and so suck ass at life.

Also, you basically lead into the obvious conclusion for men.

If there's a sort of woman you want, become what she likes, or let go of wanting a creature that by nature you cannot have.

storffish · 2017-08-08T01:46:01+00:00

low standards come from a sense of urgency. if I feel like I need something I'll be more willing to give up more for less. I'm more willing to bag an ugly chick if I'm in a dry spell. that's economics. I never want sex so little that I'll only hold out for a 10, but I'll still hit on a 10 if she presents herself. I got nothing to lose.

high standards come from a willingness to hold out. women have lower sex drives (at least in terms of casual stuff) and more close friendships. they don't need romantic relationships in the same way we do. and younger guys with high standards, well, they're the first generation to be raised with endless free porn and high quality video games. they're distracted, that urgency isn't top of mind.

[deleted] · 2017-08-08T01:14:28+00:00

So did you introduce the awkward tall chick to the built player dude?

Edit: I can't speak for anyone else but I've always gone for what I "liked", with great success. My thought process was: why would I date someone I didn't like/wasn't attracted to?

Does that seem alien to you?

Tyler_Gatsby · 2017-08-08T05:39:55+00:00

It's weird how things have changed, but we've changed too. Or at least the 36yr old me thinks pretty differently compared to mid twenties me. I'm not looking for hot now, just somebody that I can be compatible with. I've come to realize that's a lot harder to find than looks.

That said, I'm with you that she can't be an obese slob either. I don't want gym or jogger girl, just not poor/declining health from eating junk all day. I was interested in a chick in a grocery store the other day, until she said she doesn't eat anything green except lettuce. I realized she's only going to get bigger, and seriously outweigh me. On to the next ones!

[deleted] · 2017-08-08T10:23:46+00:00

I actually read this whole thing so if women are actually getting guys they "don't deserve" then who's fault is that?

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BPremium · 2017-08-08T12:47:57+00:00

TLDR: Women have it easier in everything dating and sex related.

Title	"Women go for what they like" and the "do I, do you, does he, does she deserve xy"-mindset
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	12
Comments	107
Date	August 8, 2017 12:37 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/6s9xij/women_go_for_what_they_like_and_the_do_i_do_you/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/women-go-for-what-they-like-and-the-do-i-do-you.266556 https://theredarchive.com/post/266556

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