How do you determine if a woman is strong and independent? What does this term mean for you?

wub1234 · 2015-11-09T01:10:54+00:00

I suppose my definition would be someone who doesn't need to be around but wants me to be around.

ozymandias271 · 2015-11-09T03:38:42+00:00

Nobody's independent. Strangers heat our homes, make our clothes, maintain our roads. And that's great. Specialization and the division of labor are the foundation of civilization.

"Independent" is what you identify as when the ways you're dependent on others are normalized.

cats_or_get_out · 2015-11-09T01:10:38+00:00

I'm all for strong and independent. I want my daughter to be a self-sufficient adult able to take care of herself.

I think, however, that when some people describe themselves as "strong and independent" they really mean that they are stubborn, argumentative, rigid in their views, and uncompromising. I want my daughter to be competent when she grows up--not Bill O'Reilly.

treebog · 2015-11-09T02:33:10+00:00

The same way I tell if a man is strong and independent.

damaskrose · 2015-11-09T02:39:29+00:00

"Methinks the lady doth protest too much." Anyone who has to tell you they're "strong and independent" probably isn't.

That said, when I think of a strong woman, I think of my best friend. She's been through more shit in her 26 years of life than most people go through in a lifetime, including growing up with an abusive mother; losing her father unexpectedly as a teenager; having a rare, chronic and incurable illness (which she was diagnosed with less than a week before her father died); and most recently, dealing with the death of a sibling and an investigation trying to determine if it was a murder, suicide or accident. Despite all of that, she is the kindest, most positive person I've ever met and she's never become jaded or cynical, like I no doubt would have. That's strength to me -- living your best life in spite of all the shit it might throw at you, and still being a positive influence in others' lives.

As far as independence, that's a little trickier to define because as social creatures I don't think any human is fully independent. But I would consider a person independent who pays their own way and generally takes care of their shit and is a responsible, productive member of society.

belletaco · 2015-11-09T03:56:55+00:00

Listen to Independent women by Destiny's Child. You're welcome.

Ultrablue1973 · 2015-11-09T01:29:59+00:00

As a general rule. If a woman tells you that she is strong and independent.... That bitch is on welfare.

Iforgotmybucket · 2015-11-09T03:47:30+00:00

I can't stand that description. When I told people I was traveling across India and Europe alone, people kept telling me how "independent" I was. I have a feeling that they would not describe a man traveling alone as such.

[deleted] · 2015-11-09T05:08:56+00:00

They don't tell me they're "strong and independent"
They have a source of income that isn't a trust fund or the state
They have reasonable goals and can articulate them clearly.
They are fairly situationally aware: Can read basic human social interaction/politics, are up on current affairs (not celeb gossip), are reasonably well read.
They have enough intellectual firepower to think their way through tricky situations, and anticipate consequences before they arise with an above average level of accuracy.
They are emotionally stable and can endure moderate adversity without falling to pieces.
They are confident and can lead when required without bossing others around
They are capable of vulnerability
They do not express entitlement other than when they genuinely are entitled to something
They are capable of introspection and self-criticism.

RacialRealism · 2015-11-09T04:26:48+00:00

There's two types.

Any girl who says she is "strong and independent" is almost always a feminist lunatic.

An actual "strong independent" women are those that don't crack under pressure and responsibility. Like a women taking raising her kids seriously, or knows how to bounce back from hardship.

[deleted] · 2015-11-09T01:22:59+00:00

It makes me lose all attraction for said woman when I hear it.

SirNemesis · 2015-11-09T01:45:16+00:00

"Strong and independent" = cunt.

[deleted] · 2015-11-09T01:01:48+00:00

I have no clue what it means but I suspect that will be thrown in my face when we need to compromise and she doesn't like the deal.

[deleted] · 2015-11-09T13:05:40+00:00

If a woman is self-sufficient and able to kill her own spiders and open her own jars, then I would consider her to be strong and independent.

[deleted] · 2015-11-09T02:04:04+00:00

"Strong and independent" = heartless

danhakimi · 2015-11-09T02:31:05+00:00

I imagine a mentally stable person whose mind is not reliant on anything contingent. A woman who needs to be in a relationship, or else she forgets how to function, is not really strong and independent.

To generalize/oversimplify: a stay-at-home mother is capable of being strong and independent from an abusive moneyed husband only because things like alimony exist. If the man is the woman's only source of income, and the woman literally needs him to survive, she is not free. If she can find a way to tough through it, she's strong; if she has the means by which to escape, she is independent (and perhaps strong as well).

OlBastard · 2015-11-09T02:54:13+00:00

Bullshit self-aggrandizing feminist jargontrash.

wombatinaburrow · 2015-11-09T07:23:49+00:00

We are all interdependent. But I would say women like a friend of mine. Her husband left her when she was diagnosed with breast cancer (he couldn't make himself attracted to a breast less and bald woman), and left the country, leaving her to raise three school aged boys on her own. Apart from when she was hospitalised during cold cap, she was their sole provider and carer. After she recovered, she studied nights while stacking shelves during the day in order to get an estate agent licence so she could provide better for her children. She was strong, brave and loving. I am grateful to know her.

AnOldRichDude · 2015-11-09T02:01:00+00:00

If strong and independent meant able to take care of themselves, a fully functioning member of society not dependent on others or the government, one who takes responsibility for their own actions, then I'm all for more women being strong and independent.

If on the other hand it means she's going to be mouthy bitch who tells everybody else how to live and what to do, likes to expound to the world how she doesn't need a man, but wants to tax them heavily so she can live off of their means, no thanks.

exit_sandman · 2015-11-09T11:18:39+00:00

How do you determine if a woman is strong and independent? What does this term mean for you?

The first condition is that she doesn't feel the need to vocally inform the world that she's strong and independent.

Edit: Interesting how there seems to be a consensus about this.

Villaintine · 2015-11-09T12:27:25+00:00

In your opinion, what sorts of qualities or conditions need to be present for you to consider a woman strong and independent?

Strong: physically strong enough not to need assistance from men constantly, emotionally strong not to be crying all the time and mature enough to discuss things rationally without sinking to deflection, snark, and sarcasm

Independent: able to support her lifestyle financially without relying on parents or the government/welfare; able to remain emotionally centered and maintain self-esteem without needing external validation

wtknight · 2015-11-09T13:38:35+00:00

If she could live on her own and do minor house and car maintenance without having to call up a man to help her, I would consider her strong and independent.

[deleted] · 2015-11-09T16:30:41+00:00

others think a strong and independent woman means she should be able to defend and protect herself

I don't think it would necessarily entail physical strength. I think the question can be looked at from the viewpoint of what standard society would judge a man to be strong and independent. This standard could even apply if the man might be physically weaker or less able to defend himself, yet they might still be mentally strong or at least able to size up situations and protect himself in other ways than brute strength.

"Independent" may also entail being able to function and operate independently, which would include being able to properly assess risks and potential danger to oneself. Like if you're in a strange or unfamiliar area, one might check the surroundings and get a sense of how "safe" it is. An inability to properly recognize dangerous situations might be a reason to question one's ability to function independently.

In your opinion, what sorts of qualities or conditions need to be present for you to consider a woman strong and independent? Is it purely personality based? What kind of things would disqualify her from being strong and independent?

I suppose if we wanted to set a gender neutral standard (in the spirit of equality), then the same standard should apply for both men and women. If a man exhibits qualities which are considered "weak" or "wimpy" in popular culture, then a woman exhibiting the same qualities would be judged similarly. No double standards.

MorpheusGodOfDreams · 2015-11-09T17:18:07+00:00

two more useless female buzzwords used by feminists and media to push the idea of "girl power." In reality, men are physically attracted to vulnerable women because we want to be the protector, only the most beta men are attracted to "strong women" as a mother figure. I've also heard about men that pay to wrestle and lose to a dominatrix like woman.

Men also want to provide, because we enjoy the inter-dependence of a relationship. This is what love is built upon, mutual need and respect of our specialized roles. But an independent woman "needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle," and likely has a bitchy attitude to match. Then they all complain about "where have all the good men gone." I don't know, but they must have taken all the good women with them.

truenorth00 · 2015-11-09T20:18:24+00:00

We've all known this sort of women. And even men. Anybody who has to loudly proclaim that they are "strong and independent" rarely is.....

[deleted] · 2015-11-10T14:51:27+00:00

I have known women who many would describe as strong and independent. However i think there's a difference between being self sufficient and being independent or "Strong willed". Self sufficient is good, but some people can be so "independent" that they have a hard time connecting or forming serious relationships with others. It is healthy for people to connect with others and be vulnerable sometimes.

obstinatebeagle · 2015-11-09T03:22:27+00:00

"Strong and independent" = relentlessly bullies her husband/boyfriend into complete submission and breaks their spirit.

veyron99 · 2015-11-10T08:05:19+00:00

She relies on the government.

Title	How do you determine if a woman is strong and independent? What does this term mean for you?
Author	gavinok
Upvotes	2
Comments	48
Date	November 9, 2015 12:54 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3s2ngr/how_do_you_determine_if_a_woman_is_strong_and/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/how-do-you-determine-if-a-woman-is-strong-and.278574 https://theredarchive.com/post/278574

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