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question to both pills: do women expect more out of a partner as they get older?

[deleted]

June 22, 2015
3 upvotes
/r/PurplePillDebate
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Title question to both pills: do women expect more out of a partner as they get older?
Author

[deleted]
Upvotes 3
Comments 52
Date June 22, 2015 11:36 PM UTC
(11 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3arp4u/question_to_both_pills_do_women_expect_more_out/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/question-to-both-pills-do-women-expect-more-out-of.281486
https://theredarchive.com/post/281486

Comments

[–]40WattsAmused Master11 points12 points13 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah that's why women are a depreciating asset. As they lose their youth and beauty, they demand more from a partner.

[–]ECoast_ManRed Pill Man5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Greatly

Older women are more entitled than their younger sister by far.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

are they more entitled, or was is just easier to get what they wanted when they were younger?

[–]ECoast_ManRed Pill Man7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well I think it's related.

Older women think, due to feminism, that men care about how much shit they've went through, how many emotional scars they have, and think we call that maturity. We don't.

I don't want a jaded bitch as a wife.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Doesn't this happen for men and women? I certainly have higher standards now than I did in college. And by higher standards I mean I actually have standards at all.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

yes. when women are young they just wanna be loved, but older women have a certain agenda

[–][deleted] 2 points2 points2 points 11 years ago | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]LiaKathryn0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

When I was young I just wanted to succeed and pursue my intellectual passions. As I get older I find myself more sentimental and just wanting to love and be loved.

[–]OfSpock2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Some people have lower expectations than they should, some have realistic expectations, some have unrealistic expectations. People with low expectations can usually meet them but end up in poor relationships, people with realistic expectations tend to end up in good relationships and people with unrealistic relationships end up remaining single. So, as you age the number of people you meet who are single with unrealistic expectations is going to rise, without anyone in particular raising their standards.

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

Yes.

If a woman is dating/going out with a 21 year old she is buying "potential". The degree with potential for a good job. The potential nice house and car in the future. The potentially well read and witty guy. The potential to be a good leader and decision maker.

When she is dating at 31 you have to be all those things. You can't skate by on potential no more. You will be average age of about 33. So if you ain't got the good job, you ain't going to get it. Car ? House ? If you're not well on the way, you won't get it. If you're not clever and funny you never will be and so on.

So in one respect the 21-23 year old has the advantage. He can skate by on the promise of future development. In another respect the 31-33 year old has an advantage if he has built in himself what women want because he can show the real deal, not potential, and "having it" is always better than "looking like you might get it one day".

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS8 points9 points10 points 11 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

If a woman is dating/going out with a 21 year old she is buying "potential".

A woman who wants a general as husband has to marry an officer.

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Or hope that by the time he is a general, and she doesn't have to take the risk of him not developing, another woman hasn't scooped him up.

Thats their problem. Many are waiting around for generals. Whilst cleverer women scoop them up as 2nd Lt's and Captains.

Then when they're at 35 they cry into their martini's wailing "Where have all the good officers gone ! All the generals are married ! All thats left is this no-hoper who has been a 2nd Lt for the past 15 years"

And they wonder why.

[–]dragoness_leclerq🚑 Vagina Red Cross 🚑1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

The thing is, some women actually do attempt this only to find he never actually reaches the potential he promised, or anything close to it.

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Thats when you fold that hand and get dealt another.

Just do it quick. Before you hit 30.

[–]dragoness_leclerq🚑 Vagina Red Cross 🚑1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Meanwhile TRP would call me a hypergamous, branch-swinging bitch who didn't stick by her man...

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

TRP would, because they'd be wrong to do so. You left for hypergamous reasons, but because you hadn't already setup an alternative it's not a branch swing. You'd be folding with honour on the basis of hypergamy. We'd be totally accurate to say that. But that's cool. Water is wet. We've all gotta do what we gotta do. You feel you're drives as keenly as we feel ours.

Over on RPW meanwhile, they'd be saying well done on ditching your shitty captain. Here is how to find a better one next time.

[–]dragoness_leclerq🚑 Vagina Red Cross 🚑1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

It's utterly amazing that leaving a partner who has proven themselves to be inept, an under-achiever and/or incapable of handling adult responsibilities is still considered "hypergamy".

on the basis of hypergamy. We'd be totally accurate to say that. But that's cool. Water is wet. We've all gotta do what we gotta do. You feel you're drives as keenly as we feel ours.

I really don't see how not wanting to be with a shit partner is some kind of innate drive that is apparently exclusive to women. No one should want that, male or female nor should they stick around for that.

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's utterly amazing that leaving a partner who has proven themselves to be inept, an under-achiever and/or incapable of handling adult responsibilities is still considered "hypergamy".

You are looking at it as if it's a dirty word. All it means is that women like capable achievers ! (Using your words)

If you are rejecting someone as an incapable underachiever then that's hypergamy !

It's just the word to describe that. There is nothing wrong with it. It's just how women are. Just as men, who might easily stay with an incapable underachiever, would leave due to the expression of other traits. Maybe because she turned into a fat bitch.

It's just honesty. If you can't handle honesty, let me know. I'll start lying to you instead.

I really don't see how not wanting to be with a shit partner is some kind of innate drive that is apparently exclusive to women.

The way you described it, it is !

If every man left a woman for being an incapable underachiever no waitress on the planet would be married. Women's criteria for "shit partner is "incapable under achiever" but that's not men's standard ! We don't leave people for being "incapable underachievers" we have other qualities that WE say make a "shit" partner. Bitchy and fat top THAT list.

It's not unnatural for you to want to leave that man, because by women's standards he is a shit man. Those are hypergamous standards. There is nothing wrong with that they are women's standards and men should know they are expected to meet them.

No one should want that, male or female nor should they stick around for that.

No. You are projecting your standards on us. Lots of women in happy marriages are "incapable underachievers" because men don't care. They're happy with the "ditsy waitress" women ARE NOT happy with the "ditsy burger flipper".

You just don't get that our standards are different.

[–]alexdelargeorange2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I really don't see how not wanting to be with a shit partner is some kind of innate drive that is apparently exclusive to women. No one should want that, male or female nor should they stick around for that.

The point is, society says to men that women will love you for you, not your job or other tangible things. It's the mixed signals that early TRPers rage about.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

It's utterly amazing that leaving a partner who has proven themselves to be inept, an under-achiever and/or incapable of handling adult responsibilities is still considered "hypergamy".

As /u/thegreasypole has said, you're looking at it as if it's a dirty word.

Technically hypergamy is just a term for a wide range of behaviors that can be dumbed down to "cheating on/dumping a guy because you (think you) can and should do better". This can mean that you're leaving a lazy good-for-nothing after years of trying to get him back on track, but it can also mean that you leave a decent committed partner and father of your children because some more attractive guy was in sight.

Compare dread game - a term for a wide range of behaviors that can be dumbed down to "make it clear she can't take you for granted". This can mean that you're suddenly starting to get in better shape, be more flirty in your everyday interactions, and ignore her nagging (when you've constantly caved before) to cheating and then rubbing it into her face.

Two widely different courses of actions, similar principle.

[–]dragoness_leclerq🚑 Vagina Red Cross 🚑0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

It's still amazing that perfectly reasonable, logical behavior - for ANY gender- is spoken of with such derisive terms and lumped together with leaving "a decent committed partner and father of your children because some more attractive guy was in sight."

Many women tend to put up a lot of shit before they walk so that this behavior is apparently seen as so common and practically exclusive to the female sex is baffling. IME, very few women leave a perfectly good guy, who's on his shit and responsible just because on a whim she up and decided she can do better.

But I guess it's true that no, no RPer is going to hop on TRP and say "I was an underachieving, overweight slacker with no job and my GF (finally) dumped me."

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

It's because of expectations. Men grow up believing that there's no way a decent womanTM would just dump them for reasons like "the other guy is a better earner and is more of a leadership-guy" when you're able to provide and haven't had a rocky relationship. We're led to believe that having things in common, mutual past experiences, being accommodating and treating her great will do the trick. And not her having very basic and actually pretty vulgar preferences (just like men) and appropriate buttons that need to be pushed so she also stays attracted.

But I guess it's true that no, no RPer is going to hop on TRP and say "I was an underachieving, overweight slacker with no job and my GF (finally) dumped me."

Not really, you see plenty of "back then I was a beta schlub who did xyz"-posts. Though "not having a job" usually isn't one of them.

[–]ProtoPillRed Before Red1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sandman, that's a really good quote. I like it.

[–]haircombsnightmare4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Not more or less, different things.

[–]London-BananasSunset Red5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

AF ----> BB

[–]wombatinaburrowfeminist marsupial1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

All people do. When I was 14, I wanted someone who was fun to hang out with. End of story. As an adult, fun is great, but I expect him to be able to budget his finances, be able to take care of his own grooming, contribute to the functionality of the household and remember to flush.

[–]cherryblue12Purple Pill Woman1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I think so, yes. First of all, most young women aren't looking for a guy to settle down with, they are looking for a guy to have fun with. When they get older and start looking for a serious partner, they're going to be a lot pickier because the stakes are higher. My standards for a guy I'd have a fling with are a hell of a lot lower than my standards for a guy I'd marry. Second of all, I think a lot of girls are insecure and unsure of themselves when they are young. Girls are taught to be subservient, and a lot of times this translates to letting guys walk all over them. This is where age and experience can be a real benefit for women. An older, more mature woman who has been around the block a few times knows what she wants, and knows she doesn't have to put up with crap from men. So yes, expectations are higher.

[–]LinaIG4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, I agree with this and I've been the victim of a few of those aging tendencies women have to shift their focus from ''how he makes me feel,'' to ''how much money he makes.''

When I was 22 I was pursuing this woman. She was also 21 She had been involved with a guy who cheated on her. With her sister. She gave all of the signs of being sexually attracted to me, but she never made a move on me. She said she'd only sleep with me if I was her boyfriend and that I'd only have her as a girlfriend if I got a job.

Well, the problem was that while we we're getting to know each other she mentioned she had slept with 10 guys, and that her boyfriends either didn't have a job, or they had a low-grade job.

I start thinking to myself. Sure, the girl is cute. But she had put out for some 10 other guys(7 of them never dated her) and the boyfriends she had, they didn't have a job so why should I have to have a job to sleep with her? I mean, if she doesn't put out, then she's not attracted to me despite what she says and how she acts.

I'm no dummy. I'm not going to pay full price for what other guys had for free.

My standards for a relationship are way higher than they are for a hook-up. I'm not going to date someone who was giving free sex to other guys. I'm not going to be in a relationship with someone who at the age of 21 had already had 10 sex partners.

''An older, more mature woman who has been around the block a few times knows what she wants, and knows she doesn't have to put up with crap from men. So yes, expectations are higher.''

Expectations are higher but she'll get is lower than what she expects. a 20 year old woman can get away with the crap a woman of that age typically pulls because she's attractive and men are forever captivated by youthful women,but a 30 year old woman doesn't have the social capital(looks) to lget what they want, and if you think there aren't many, many women out there in their 30s who are single because they no longer hold sway over men, you are wrong.

I had a massive crush on that girl, and 10 years after I realized that she was trying to make me out to be her provider(''I don't want a guy to fool around, I want a guy to build a family with'') I came across her and I was as attracted to her as I am to watching paint dry on a wall.

Women are taught to be submissive to men? Not really. Maybe you don't know this, but women can act however they want to act when they are young. They don't suffer consequences. What you mean is that women let handsome men treat them like crap because they're attracted to these men, and then as they age and lose the ability to attract these men they suddenly ''know'' what they want and expect to be treated with respect.

Meaning, the average men they sleep with don't give them tingles.

[–]Anon_2167 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Expectations of the man are higher, but the SMV of attractable males is lower. So basically as women get older they begin to be reasonable although it would have served them much better had they done so at an earlier age. Kind of like how men have to grow up and realize women don't actually like nice guys.

[–]cherryblue12Purple Pill Woman1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

the problem with this is that most young men haven't developed many of the attributes (i.e., maturity, responsibility) a woman will look for in a guy when she's ready to settle down. Sure, she could date an older guy, but most girls prefer to date men their own age.

[–]LinaIG4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

A mature and responsible man is usually used and abused. A woman should be responsible and lock-down a guy with provider attributes while she is in her 20s.

I wouldn't mind marrying a woman in her early 20s, I guess, but if you ask me if I'd date/live with/or marry a woman in her 30s I'd tell you no.

I don't take responsability for what other guys had for free. Every man should have a honeymoon phase with the woman he's with. Women in their 30s don't want no funny times, they want a business transaction.

The only happy marriage I know about was had by a woman who was my teacher when I was in junior high school. She was in her 40s and she was still beautiful and with a figure that could put any woman in her 20s to shame. She had been married for more than 20 years when I first had class with.

She met her future husban when she was 15 and he was 25. They began to date when she turned 18 and by age 19 they were married. If I had that incentive, marrying an 19 year old woman who looks a lot better than the victoria secret models you can be sure darn sure I'd take responsability.

But taking responsability and being mature when my reward is a 30-something woman who wants to have children, doesn't have much to offer me back and has lost most of her looks and youth?

I think I'll stick to porn. Sasha Gray will never grow old. And she won't take my house and my money.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You've identified the problem backwards, the relatively a recent push for women to marry age mates is causing them to waste their youths on unsuitable (too young) men

[–]gregariousnefariousBlue leaning with some reddishness....and radishes0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree with this, especially the part about young women not realizing their worth and putting up with crap. The standards also change and women who are older value different traits.

[–]sumant281 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes and no. Alpha fucks beta bucks.

[–]ProtoPillRed Before Red2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Yes.

For example, when my wife and I first started dating in our teens, she expected that I get good grades, treat her as a girlfriend, and romance/sex. Not much.

As we got older, she expected more out of me, from the tangible (better dress, in shape, status, and money) to the intangible (presence, stoic, ability to fix problems).

I think this is more than fair. When a man is young, he needs to focus on a few things and do them well. As he matures, he can take more responsibility.

[–]Kill_Your_Ego7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It's fair if you start young. What reason do I have to go out with an older, uglier, less innocent, less fun, more responsibility, AND higher standards woman when young women are still more then happy to go out with me and still try to turn me into a boyfriend or husband?

I don't have wife goggles for these women.

Actually here's something I've been thinking about. I saw my "wife" the other day and good lord did she look bad. I mean she's still in good shape and looks better then most women her age. But her age... It's been awhile since I've seen her and in my head I still see the 24 year old girl. Not this... Old woman.

And in the meanwhile my favorite plate was 20 when she started spinning. Turning 21 was nice cause now she could buy the alcohol.

She just got all old. But somehow in my head she's still that girl. It's messed up honestly.

Women should be taught to take advantage of wife goggles. That shit is real.

And you old maids realize that you are an old maid. Nobody but your cats have wife goggles for you. Ugh and the single moms... They all force their ex husbands to have only minimum visitation to maximize their child support. But it means they've always got their fucking kids. And I don't care about your kids. I care about my kids. It's your husbands job to care about his kids.

So these younger, hotter, many more years of hotness to offer, fertile, no rush for kids, more innocent, more fun, less of their responsibilities to deal with, better accepting of my leadership, just better in every way women will go out with me. And you handicap yourself so that you can show me how much you want to take from the man you once loved?

Why the fuck would I ever even plate you? God the very last single mom I went out with I ended up just eventually standing up. I mean I had a better, younger, better girl who wanted to go out. The rage from these women when you stand them up! Oh I love the schadenfreude.

I mean cry me a fucking river. You got stood up. You hit the fucking wall girl. You can't beat your competition. And these feminists keep telling them to slut it up with guys like me. And they've all got daddy issues cause the feminists destroyed their families. So they love it. They tell me they love me and shit. They really mean it to in their girl brains.

Good that you got one when you were young. And learned the real rules of the game.

[–]dragoness_leclerq🚑 Vagina Red Cross 🚑0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Damn you really went off on a bizarre tangent here.

[–]wordjedi 2 points2 points2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

As we got older, she expected more out of me...

I think this is more than fair.

How have you quadrupled your demands on her? Maybe she cleans or cooks more often than you do, for instance. Who cleaned your apartment and did your laundry before you were married? Weren't you able to do it all yourself and still be a full time student/worker? How many hours could that possibly take then?

[–]ProtoPillRed Before Red5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

How have you quadrupled your demands on her?

In many ways.

For example, I expect that she take care of our children and all that entails, which is significant. I delegate tasks I need done throughout the day to her, and she handles all our errands. She plans our family's social calendar, which includes coordinating and planning for philanthropies we are apart of, hosted dinners, and other events. I expect her to keep the house in hosting condition. I invite friends and business partners over, and I expect she will be there to help me host them.

Personally, I expect her to use her feminine energy throughout our marriage, to at the same time, blunt my sharpness and steel my resolve. I expect her loyalty. I expect that she places our family above both her personal happiness and anyone else's. I expect her to remain fit and healthy.

She knows of these expectations, and I know of mine. Indeed, "Treat a man as he is and he will remain as he is. Treat a man as he can and should be and he will become as he can and should be."

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It has nothing to do with age, but with availability. Humans get used to their environment and once they do, they start taking it for granted and expect more. Relationships are no exception.

[–]GynaTynglezMakelovenotwar0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

From my point of view, it depends on the woman. Some women mellow out and get more realistic, some women get more neurotic and demanding. A lot of it has to do with whether or not the woman wants marriage and kids or not. There are plenty that don't, these are generally the women that are more easy going.

[–]GynaTynglezMakelovenotwar0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

In my opinion, it depends on the woman. In general, the women who are actively looking to get married and have children tend to become more demanding. The women who do not want these things seem to become more easy going and less neurotic than their younger counterparts.

[–]LinaIG0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Yes. When women are young and in high school/college all they care about is if the guy is hot. They're not concerned with his future goals or how good of a dad he has the potential to be. Women in their 30s, they lost their looks but the standards go up way higher.

Now the guy not only has to be good-looking. He has to make a certain amount per year, has to have a certain level of college education, has to have to his own house. And he has to want to have children and marriage. And man, notice the difference.

Women in their 20s are always smiling and happy. They're pursued by men, don't have the bother of having a job, don't have bills to pay and are healthy as hell. Women in their 30s look like and act like someone killed their cat.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Women in their 20s are always smiling and happy. They're pursued by men, don't have the bother of having a job, don't have bills to pay and are healthy as hell.

True dat.

Funecdote: Some years ago, when social networks other than FB were still a thing, there was one in particular that offered groups you could subscribe to. These could range from actual conversational topics, to nonsenical fun-groups to statements. And one of the latter was named "holy shit, life is awesome!" Checked that group; 70% of the members were young and mostly attractive women.

[–]LinaIG-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, its like when you visit a relationship forum and you see women there complain of the patriarchy and of what women have had to go through at the hands of men. You instantly know the women who are saying any of that are old or fat. Young women never complain about anything.

[–]buttlollipopappropriating pill culture0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

From what I can glean from the older women I know, there is some shift that happens where they actually are less interested in commitment and more interested in their friends, hobbies, etc. Part of this, I'm sure, is that it's hard to find a 50 year old man who deigns to date women over 35, but another reason is that their sex drives have gotten lower, and if they're financially stable they don't need a provider. I've heard a lot of women say they "don't want to compromise themselves for a man" whereas I, as a 20-something woman, would compromise almost anything for my SO.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I thought it was the opposite and that women lower their standards as they get older...

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, after they actually notice that the party is over, they may.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

define older

[–][deleted] 0 points0 points0 points 11 years ago | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

god damnit

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

er... to a degree? i expect more from my boyfriend now than i expected from say, my high school boyfriend, and i think everyone starts having different needs as they grow older and progress through life. i think there's probably a sort of plateau though, where eventually people know what they want in a partner and the expectations stop growing. at least, that's what i would expect to happen, in the future. i don't believe this is specific to women though.

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