CMV: Domestic abuse (such as beating your wife) is an alpha trait.

Vzuv · 2015-05-06T17:53:12+00:00

I'd say sure, using violence to get what you want is, at the end of the day, a pure, 100% alpha trait. I don't think TRP would push a guy to be pure, total alpha at all times - that would be ignorant of all the consequences that come with it. There's not really a realistic pure alpha or pure beta - everyone has some mixture of the two.

So while I'd say yes, beating your wife is alpha, it's not red pill. Red Pill in general recognizes that being pure 100% alpha at all times is bad for a lot of reasons. You won't be successful in anything you do without at least some beta behaviors. You try to be pure 100% alpha will absolutely kill your professional life - particularly if you are near the bottom of the totem pole. Using violence simply to intimidate/dominate is a loss of frame - which is a big no no in red pill.

Violence has its place - such as responding to violence, threats to yourself and those you care about, but simply as a means to control is not maintaining frame.

kittukatsu · 2015-05-06T17:02:38+00:00

RP is all about maintaining frame, keeping your composure, having self control. Losing your temper so bad that you beat your woman is a massive loss of frame, lack of self control and is behavior worthy of condemnation.

SirNemesis · 2015-05-06T18:01:09+00:00

Yeah, way too many RP subscribers think alpha=positive, beta=negative. It's bullshit hamstering.

Some alpha traits are positive, others are negative, and same applies to beta traits. Domestic abuse is very much alpha.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2015-05-06T18:07:52+00:00

I was banned from the TRP IRC for strenuously arguing this

LamiaQueen · 2015-05-06T16:33:45+00:00

It is a massive loss of control, and "alpha strength" is all about self-control. This mod probably said it best.

nomdplume · 2015-05-06T16:54:46+00:00

A wise person once said, "Force is a tool used by those who don't have power." I think that creates the distinction you are looking for...

alexdelargeorange · 2015-05-06T18:40:18+00:00

You care so much about what she says or does that you'd resort to violence? Yeh, that's not an alpha mindset.

kick6 · 2015-05-06T16:29:08+00:00

Ghengis Kahn and Caesar probably didn't beat the shit out their own lieutenants. These men followed because they recognized the alpha. In fact, a case could be made that Caesar begin to lose his power when he started having his own people offed: it was a sign of his insecurity and weakness.

[deleted] · 2015-05-06T18:45:29+00:00

Absolutely not! Maybe a few thousand years ago it would have been but these days? Having to resort to violence means you're not in control, not being in control means you're not alpha.

scummcdirt · 2015-05-06T19:48:57+00:00

One of the flaws in red pill, is that it oversimplifies the complex things, while it over complicates the simple things.

Saying people are "alpha", or "beta", is an oversimplification. People are complicated. There are times when being assertive will get the best outcome, and there are times where being passive aggressive will.

It also goes back to what the definition of alpha is. In truth, it should vary from person to person.

Now, the problem with this post, is it takes a highly complicated subject like domestic violence, and over simplifies it. We hear about all the famous alphas, because they are famous and people love juicy gossip.

Note, because this is a male oriented post, i will take about the male side of domestic violence. Women do it too, in fact, lesbian couples have the highest rate, because the system being all anti male, fails them the most.

Does the man that lives in a trailer park, who drinks all the god damn time, have a giant beer gut, and resorts to violence to get his way sound alpha?

Does the man living in the government housing complex, who has no job or good skills, sound like an alpha?

Red pill is about self improvement. That is the main thing. Its a MAN thing. Everything else is just there to keep people interested. Often red pill tells people to lift, eat healthy, read books, and be introspective.

These are traits that we do not see in most domestic abusers. Most domestic abusers have sever mental problems, and most ironically when you do research on the issue, will come off as "beta".

Ironically, when a domestic abuser is given treatment, or starts self improvement, they become less violent. But this is a common theme in psychology and treatment of most mental illness.

TheGreasyPole · 2015-05-06T20:07:10+00:00

The worlds prisons are full of men who would have been the most alpha caveman in the cave. It's as simple as that. You need brains now too. RP says "Don't break the law Numbnuts". If you ain't got enough brain to keep to that, all the alpha in the world won't help you.

disposable_pants · 2015-05-08T00:35:46+00:00

There is more than one alpha archetype. To keep things simple, let's say there are just two:

The cartel kingpin: This guy's at the top of the food chain, he's the baddest man around, he's the modern day analogue to Al Capone and Genghis Kahn. He uses hard power -- violence, intimidation, physical force -- far more than he uses soft power -- planning, persuasion, charisma.
The CEO: Also at the top of the food chain, also someone to be reckoned with, but for far different reasons than the cartel kingpin. He uses soft power far more than hard power.

The cartel kingpin beats his wife, his mistress, his kids, anybody. He gets what he wants in the way he's most familiar with. The CEO also gets what he wants, but he does it through more palatable means. Both are alpha.

To more directly answer OP's central questions, yes, domestic abuse can be a symptom of alpha characteristics, but no, alpha by its definition does not necessarily include extremely ethically unacceptable traits. Mayweather is undoubtedly alpha, he's just alpha in a way that modern society imprisons you for unless you're worth hundreds of millions of dollars. A far better alpha role model would be someone like Mark Cuban -- charismatic as hell, careful enough to plan, smart enough to persuade.

mustang_mike · 2015-05-06T16:58:30+00:00

I like Jimmy Carr's take on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXom0OP3Rwk

"It's just so stupid, isn't it? Beating your wife, I mean, it's your wife. It's like keying your own car"

bluepiller · 2015-05-06T16:25:58+00:00

Being an alpha male doesn't automatically means you're an abuser.

I think you have a point about one thing: I have seen quite a few RPillers classify all of the characteristics they don't like as "beta traits" , which is pretty funny .

Of course in my opinion rating people as alphas or betas is really freaking stupid , but lets not go there.

caesarfecit · 2015-05-06T19:26:20+00:00

If you define "alpha" as simple dominance, then yes.

But that's a very stupid definition of "alpha".

I define alpha as the ability and willingness to lead effectively. This definition is especially accurate in the context of romantic relationships. You can't conk your intended on the head, take her back your cave, and bully her until Stockholm syndrome takes effect. Which means your leadership must be consensual.

The use of violence to maintain control is beyond coercion, and instead becomes terrorism. Ruling through fear is not leadership, because the instant your follower doesn't fear you, you've completely lost control - and that moment is inevitable simply on the basis that we're mortal.

The truth is that some element of dominance is necessary in order to lead. But leadership is a balancing act, and people who can only be led through fear aren't worth leading in my opinion.

trpobserver · 2015-05-06T21:00:02+00:00

I disagree. Beating your wife is an attempt to force control over another person. Having the desire to force control over somebody else signals a low sense of self worth, because you feel that something will be "wrong" if this person doesn't do what you want them to. It appears to me that the whole idea behind the Alpha is he is both valuable and he knows he is valuable. Valuable people don't need that kind of firm control and attachment.

The abuser's inability to just say "fine" and move on is very beta. Your inability to control your emotions is very beta. Corey Worthington, who famously presented to the world a very Alpha mentality, had a lady being rude to him on national TV and he really just didn't give a fuck.

Its not about dominating a woman out of "sheer willpower," its about improving yourself and having a "don't give a fuck" attitude, and women follow your expectations because if its not them they will find somebody else, the alpha wont hit you or threaten you until you meet their expectations, they will just find somebody else who meets their expectations. Getting caught up on having one specific person do specific things for you seems to me like oneitis.

masterrod · 2015-05-07T14:41:55+00:00

It as an alpha trait, especially Considering that Josie Harris has admitted to domestic violence against Mayweather.

However, it's not acceptable in all cultures.

adrixshadow · 2015-05-09T07:55:14+00:00

The reason domestic abuse is beta and not alpha is because you use violence because of losing control of your emotions.

It's the lose of control that is beta.

Violence from overall aggressiveness and domination would be alpha.

So in a sense it can be both alpha and beta depending on the context.

Title	CMV: Domestic abuse (such as beating your wife) is an alpha trait.
Author	bluepiller
Upvotes	6
Comments	89
Date	May 6, 2015 4:18 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/352myf/cmv_domestic_abuse_such_as_beating_your_wife_is/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-domestic-abuse-such-as-beating-your-wife-is-an.282313 https://theredarchive.com/post/282313

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