BP'ers, how do we know that most of your dislike of TRP isn't just some irrational emotional reaction?

SirNiggatheBlackPill · 2015-04-05T16:42:18+00:00

Reasons why people might dislike TRP: 1)It is actually mostly based on personal observation and ideology rather than on actual science. 2)They always seem to focus on the negative aspects of female nature , ignoring anything that is positive. This makes them come off as misogynists. 3)A lot of RPillers are biased. They promote the idea that men are innocent martyrs and spiritual saints, victims of women's behavior. They only see things from the male point of view.

cxj · 2015-04-06T04:06:58+00:00

No one wants to hear that their mother might have rode the CC and settled for daddy, whom she only loves cuz he provides for her.

I came to this conclusion on my own years before TRP existed.

salty niggas

DEAD

Your post is a massive shifting the burden of proof fallacy, though. TBP doesn't have to collectively prove they are NOT something, you have to prove your claim that they ARE.

powerkick · 2015-04-05T18:08:46+00:00

Because TRP is itself an extreme emotional reaction to women having free thought and a choice in sex partner while still being able to be happily married later on. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

chasingstatues · 2015-04-06T04:33:23+00:00

So here's the thing, you think you sound all like this, when really, you sound like this.

There is nothing mind blowing or original about TRP. It's a bunch of old, archaic ideas from the "Enlightenment era," during which we purportedly distanced ourselves from our unsophisticated past and became an advanced civilization which used science and psychology, rather than religion and faith, to justify racism, sexism, and homophobia. The same people who used "science" to back RP logic at that time were the same people who measured skulls to determine that blacks were inferior to whites. TRP has just repackaged this old ideology into catchy acronyms so that they sound like boys playing war or CoD when discussing their interactions with women.

Here are the main reasons that I personally dislike and disagree with TRP:

But my reasoning is irrelevant because your reasoning dictates that anything I am capable of reasoning is actually, in fact, unreasonable because I have a pussy. Having a pussy means that I have no basis on which to disagree with anything you say other than emotional upset. It's a convenient way to strip women of agency, avoid having to respond to content, and inflate your own ego all at once. This is not how truth works, this is how one feeds and reinforces their own ideological beliefs.

But whatever, I'm a woman. What would I know. I'm curious, though, as to how you'll hamster around dismissing the opinions of men who disagree with TRP.

[deleted] · 2015-04-06T00:46:41+00:00

TRP is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Here, I'll prove it to you:

TRP: women are conniving, manipulative, and machiavellian in nature. They are the most responsible teenager in the house. AWALT. Got it? So here's a list of inherently manipulative tactics that you can use in order to get laid.

Peanut gallery: okay goes out to put it's new found "knowledge" to work.

Peanut gallery: wow, my manipulative tactics have attracted other manipulative people. I am now salty and have mistaken my saltiness for enlightenment. I must now accept that women are inherently conniving, manipulative, etc. TRP is truth. But it's okay because I got laid.

Random lurker: but how can i have deep relationships with women?

TRP: you can't. AWALT. Did you even read the sidebar?

And ad infinitum. TRP is inherently an emotional response to rejection. If it posits that women have (insert list of negative traits here) and it creates tactics to automatically attract a subset of women that actually have those traits, then guess what's gonna happen? That's not logical at all. Not to mention that any criticism of TRP is met with an emotional response.

emptypillbox · 2015-04-06T00:53:39+00:00

I think this thread demonstrates something interesting about RP/non-RP interaction.

I'm non-RP, and I have the general opinion that RP uses circular logic to cherry pick data that supports premises that they are emotionally invested in from anecdotal, personal experience. I find it highly unscientific, and references to science, data, logic and the like are generally only viable if one already accepts a host of RP premises from the get-go and ignores all other interpretations.

But how does a RPer or non-RPer go about convincing the opposite that it is not an emotional response? I've seen RPers suggest that anecdotal evidence is worthwhile if it comes from RPers, but not if it comes from non-RPers because they are obviously confused, self-deluded, ignorant or otherwise. I've seen non-RPers disbelieve RP field-reports because they think that the RP person is lying and really a virgin. I've seen both groups completely misinterpret scientific articles to support their own base by assuming that their premises are already correct (isn't that what's being tested?)

I mean, how are you to convince a group of people who are already incredibly sceptical of your methodology that you're using good methodology? I'm sceptical of RP methodology, as I said - and the OP would appear to be already sceptical of non-RP methodology based upon their own conviction that they are correct (which arises from a methodology I am sceptical of - it just keeps going in a circle).

So I think this question is pretty pointless. What would need to happen is that some RPers and non-RPers would need to get together to suggest some standard of evidence or reasonable framework for debate/discussion, and stick to that standard of evidence. Else, no one will convince anyone else, because whatever anyone else says, it will be discounted because everyone is already clinging to their premises.

My take - what OP calls "truths" are not things that I think are well-supported hypotheses. But if OP believes they are truths, of course he or she will believe that there is some faulty reasoning or other basis for someone disagreeing with these truths, and the discussion will get nowhere with this frame of mind. OP will not be convinced. Instead, OP should put forward some suggestions of what they find a reasonable framework to suggest that RP "truths" are justified, so that there is structured room for debate that could potentially be compelling for OP.

ForgedIronMadeIt · 2015-04-06T00:21:32+00:00

I am trying to imagine how this post could be more of a leading question, but failing.

bunker_man · 2015-04-06T01:26:55+00:00

How does pointing out a few vague things justify trp? That's like saying that people are emotional for rejecting Christianity because they just don't want to think greed is bad. Its pretty dishonest to imply that no one outside of trp knows that being fat makes someone less attractive.

rapunzelly · 2015-04-05T18:21:48+00:00

Of course some of the opposition is more emotional than intellectual argument. As to where my opposition comes from, it's strongly felt but based on having been raised Red Pill. Not even kidding. Strongly religious parents and environment, everyone trying to see who could be more conservative... and it didn't work to help anyone be happier or more successful. The rigid gender roles were extremely harmful, it was hard for people to empathize with each other through all the rules, and while marriages tended to last, there was way too much misery. Living a more egalitarian life, where my SO and I just address things as partners without caring too much who's the boss or who "should" be doing x, has been 10000000x better. I think there is a place for telling and listening to hard truths, but I think TRP is a cult similar to the one I grew up in and is dangerous. That's why I oppose it.

Iwillpixiecutyou · 2015-04-05T19:52:17+00:00

Well, it's bullshit. So that. Just spend any time whatsoever actually learning how to interpret statistics and study behavioral sciences and TRP disintegrates. If you misogyny hard enough you won't notice how stupid it all is.

Oh, except the death part, which has nothing to do with TRP.

I've dissected cadavers; Nobody cares who they had sex with or not.

P.s. if you donate your body to science/medical research your pee pee will be cut in half. :)

Maybe basing your self worth/view of people on your penis and its adventures isn't really the most impressive/intelligent/honest/accurate way to interpret your finite life.

goatismycopilot · 2015-04-05T16:52:40+00:00

TRP is largely salty folk claiming logic and using lots of emotion to defend their piont of view. There is that anger phase thing which really just ends up being default for many so I am unconvinced that BP folk have the corner staked out on the emotion stuff. edit, sentence stuff.

[deleted] · 2015-04-06T13:05:01+00:00

The thing is, most conspiracy theorists and paranoid cults dress themselves up in a "quilt of harsh truths." It's useful because it allows them to dismiss their criticisms as cognitive dissonance and their critics as unconscious "sheep" who can't or don't want to wake up to the terrible truth.

Just like some feminists may stamp every dissenting opinion as "misogyny" or chalk it up to the all-powerful "patriarchy," some RPers insulate themselves from criticism by charging that anyone who doesn't subscribe to their beliefs is unqualified to assess them, being too "emotional," or just tasting sour grapes. (I should also add that it looks like RP is based on some as-yet unfalsifiable premises about male and female nature.)

It behooves you, as a defender of the Red Pill, to give your critics the benefit of the doubt, not dismiss them with labels, and address those criticisms which could be logical logically. Otherwise you isolate yourself and end the dialogue.

paperscissorsx · 2015-04-05T18:08:43+00:00

Seeing as you cant prove that any of that is true, and it is just a generalization, then people who dislike or oppose red pill are just opposing your opinion.

The reason people who oppose red pill do so is because a vast majority of what redpill preaches is untrue. So no, its not emotional its logical.

Some of what you say however, may result in a negative emotional reaction.

And I'll explain. I logically object to you saying: 1. "all women want a man who dominates her and tells her what to do, and its the only way a relationship works." Or 2. "All women will dump you for someone better". I logically object as these are untrue. 1. I am a woman, who would not let a man tell me what to do, and if a man tried and expected that he would always get final say, or that I must obey him, I would dump his arse. 2. There will always be better, there will always be worse. If I love you and I'm happy, I'm not going to leave you just because some other guy walks by with a bigger bank account who is more "alpha" or attractive.

I emotionally object to you: 1. Rating women based on looks or 2. Calling women plates 1. Because don't we have enough self esteem issues? 2. Its a derogatory term to use against a women.

So while I may dislike redpill on an emotional level, I also dislike redpill and object to redpill, as a majority of it's content is untrue.

BirdsMilkCake · 2015-04-05T19:56:31+00:00

I'm not even blue pill, but I think your rhetoric needs some polishing.

Every religion every created has dealt with the fact we are all going to die. That's hardly original. Why do you think the afterlife bit of religion is such a big selling point?

Women gaining weight- ok, how much weight? Can we go with something actually scientific, like "if her waist-hip ratio changes too far from 0.7?" Most women can gain or lose 5 lbs and NO ONE WILL CARE. If you gain 5 lbs a couple times, maybe then you should care. But you're generalizing, because there are women out there who should probably gain weight as well as women who could probably afford to lose weight.

Male sex drive- I think most people are aware of it, but we choose not to speak of it publicly. Why would you need to talk about a given? If you're asking why we don't discuss how male sexual proclivities shape culture, well, you should go have a conversation with an anthropologist. We're the people who study that kind of thing.

Mommy and Daddy issues- Was Daddy a virgin until marriage? Or did he get some too? Why would you expect a woman to wait till marriage but a man to spread some wild oats? Who is he supposed to have sex with? How do you define love? For me, love is both an emotion and a set of actions. Emotions are prone to change, but I know I can always act in a loving way towards my partner. So who cares if Mommy "settled" for Daddy if she acts in a loving way towards him? Isn't two people treating each other well part of what makes a relationship?

The issue I have with the red pill is that there is absolutely no understanding of the diversity of human sexual and mating behaviors across cultures and time. There are a handful of good points made here and there, but you all are stuck in middle class white guy mode and apparently have no idea that other ways of doing things work and have worked. I especially hate the fake "paleo" or caveman type arguments because there is no science backing them up- it's just some dude imagining himself as a "cavemen" in what he thinks a Neolithic environment would look like. I'd like to see more data and science incorporated, and not that evo-psych bullshit. Actual, cross-cultural data.

Blue pill- Well, I'm not a liberal, so I guess I don't hang out there much. But when I do, I see more talk than action. So maybe the best thing is to live out the type of relationship you want to see in the world.

belletaco · 2015-04-05T16:55:29+00:00

I hate TRP because I'm a woman and TRP hates me for that same reason. It doesn't really go deeper than that.

buartha · 2015-04-05T19:22:26+00:00

Well, none of those things have any personal relevance to me for a start (parents were shotgun married young and my ma died before any significant beta bux could be collected, I am a man and my sex drive is no mystery to me, and I am a gay man so the fatness of my hypothetical wife doesn't exactly haunt my nightmares.)

I am disappointed to hear that I'm not immortal though. Why must you shatter my dreams, RP?!

OfSpock · 2015-04-05T21:51:47+00:00

Or, we all know already that there are scumbag men and try to actively avoid them.

TimeDoesDisolve · 2015-04-05T18:07:03+00:00

No one wants to hear that their mother might have rode the CC and settled for daddy, whom she only loves cuz he provides for her.

There are some women that do this sure. There are others that don't care. There are even more that settle down for entirely different reasons then SMV.

No one wants to hear how ridiculously driven by sex drive men are.

DAE think asexual men don't exist lol!?!? (before you jump to insults no I am not asexual)

No woman wants to hear that if she gains weight her husband will be disgusted by her.

Maybe fat activists don't/ feminists pretty much guilted into believing that crap. Most people know if they drop their looks before it doesn't matter people will like them less. Not a TRP exclusive bit of truth there.

No one wants to hear that one day, we're all going to die.

Everyone know's it and it's really not relevant. Bringing it up just makes you come of as trying to be edgy and dark.

But TRP is a quilt of harsh truths. SURELY a great deal of its opposition will just be salty niggas who are responding emotionally to what is unfortunately truetrue, right?

The world is full of harsh truths. The opposition to that is sometimes naivete and sometimes just something you have to ignore and most of the time it's just not even relevant.

taiboworks · 2015-04-05T21:49:51+00:00

No one wants to hear how ridiculously driven by sex drive men are.

if men are ridiculously driven by sex, how would you describe the sex drive of sex addicts? have you seen the film Shame?

RichardChaffer · 2015-04-06T00:12:56+00:00

Some people, like me, just don't really care about any of those things. If my mom was a CC riding whore, I guess I'd be glad for her to have those fun memories. Also, common TRP lore is that the 1950s were the perfect society, so it doesn't even apply.

But mostly, I went into TRP with an open mind, saw some things I agreed with, but then saw it as a kind of cult that was using those simple truths to sell a big lie to emotionally stunted men. So many of my personal experiences go against TRP lore and I'm a pretty alpha guy (I guess, technically sigma, but whatever): I have a wife, a girlfriend and two plates. On top of that, I'm heavily into BDSM and as this comment succintly points out "Red Pill doesn't get BDSM". If I applied red pill to my subs, it would completely destroy our relationships.

So mostly I just warn people away from it so they don't get lured into stunting what could be real emotional growth for the promise of a few kernels of "truth".

[deleted] · 2015-04-06T01:10:17+00:00

What does death have to do with any of this?

My dislike for the redpill is both ideological, factual, and emotional. You can't really have one without the other. Emotion is an important aspect of our every day decision making. It's why people born with disorders that dampen their emotional functioning often cannot live life in the same way that the rest of us can.

Now, to say that it emotionally outrages me would be a stretch. Hatred and distrust of women is hardly new and this isn't even the most insidious form that it has taken. I'm actually fairly indifferent toward it as a large ideology and more concerned with the fact that I think the entire idea itself does individual harm to a lot of guys whether they'd like to admit it or not.

Toynbee1 · 2015-04-05T19:43:51+00:00

I accept all those things, but I accept the larger picture as well.

I come here because sometimes my perspective gets jaded and redpillers voice the cowardly demons that pop up on my shoulder, and I can address them consciously.

I come here because I've been hurt and bitter before, and I want to keep the shades up on the bigger picture for other people as well as myself.

nemma88 · 2015-04-05T21:11:32+00:00

It is a emotional reaction. That in itself does not make it illogical, just it's the motivation to learn more and compose counter points, TRP itself is build from a emotional reaction giving motivation to try and find their 'truth'.

You only have to look at the topics and the language used in TRP to see it's not irrational.

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. TBP is the equal reaction to TRP.

Edit; I spend a lot of time on the relationships sub all those points are noted on there (except the dying one..) , people do talk about them. The weight gain and falling out of attraction comes up every other week (you can also hear much the same about staying attractive on TV or read about it in magazines..), people talk about how people should not stay with others just because they earn more, sunk cost fallacy. Men's sex drive (I thought this was considered very common knowledge). I think TRP is harsh, not those points which I read about outside TRP all the time...

ResidentBalkanBitch · 2015-04-06T00:19:11+00:00

My reaction to TRP is comical. I laugh at you guys because you're all bitter alpha try-hards that sit on the Internet all day and write out long dissertations that belong in r/thathappened or r/niceguys. If I was an emotional person I would pity you guys but I choose to make fun of you instead. Pretty simple stuff.

Title	BP'ers, how do we know that most of your dislike of TRP isn't just some irrational emotional reaction?
Author	SirNiggatheBlackPill
Upvotes	3
Comments	120
Date	April 5, 2015 4:14 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/31j3os/bpers_how_do_we_know_that_most_of_your_dislike_of/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/bpers-how-do-we-know-that-most-of-your-dislike-of.282842 https://theredarchive.com/post/282842

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