Should traditional gender roles be enforced, and how?

[deleted] · 2014-06-13T21:44:06+00:00

[permanently deleted]

robesta · 2014-06-13T17:24:09+00:00

Enforced implies force. I don't believe anyone should be forced to act in any way (beyond the basic legal framework of a civilized society).

[deleted] · 2014-06-13T16:15:51+00:00

I don't think they should be, because it can make people miserable if they are forced into them.

throwawayjapanese · 2014-06-13T19:36:24+00:00

I can't speak for TRP since I am not in that camp, but the "force" part of "enforced" sounds a bit Taliban to me.

GridReXX · 2014-06-13T16:23:03+00:00

Letting people break their social roles has consequences.

Seems like they both have consequences.

shitpostwhisperer · 2014-06-13T15:32:50+00:00

No. I think gender roles can be largely neurotic and detrimental to the happiness of people due to the fact they're pigeon holed into fulfilling roles they may not want. I think notions of gender roles can be sexist to both men and women.

xantris · 2014-06-13T21:09:42+00:00

Nope, I don't think you should force gender roles. I do think there are often (negative) repercussions from breaking gender roles. But ultimately every person's happiness is their own responsibility.

greeenscreeen · 2014-06-13T16:25:16+00:00

Yes absolutely! Men should only fuck women and women should only be fucked by men. Deviants will be put to the sword. By deviants I mean male ballet dancers, male pastry chefs, male nurses, male seamsters, male flight attendants, and Tim Gunn.

/s

GridReXX · 2014-06-13T16:34:11+00:00

Roosh talks about it here.

Some lines for the lazy:

"There is an argument floating around that goes like this: I’m just as bad as feminists in destroying Western civilization because I advise men to pursue easy sex instead of seeking marriage. How can I reconcile the fact that I advocate for “traditional sex roles” when my tactics can be used for pumping and dumping women all over the world? The answer is that I, along with all other men, are not given a choice in the matter."

"For men stuck in America, even if they want to settle down in a traditional manner, they will find it nearly impossible to find a young, fertile beauty in her prime who wants to do the same. He may get lucky if he’s religious and meets a girl through church, but this scenario doesn’t happen in Americas coastal cities where women want to have fun with cock riding until their 30′s. He can learn game and successfully use it to get a wife, but even if he “wins” the match and walks down the wedding aisle, the awfully corrupt boxing judges (i.e., the government and culture) will always call the bout in the woman’s favor by encouraging her to use the punitive divorce system in the case she’s not 100% happy at all times. You only live once, they’ll tell her, so wreck your family."

"A popular manosphere saying is that women are gatekeepers to sex and men are gatekeepers to commitment. I wish this was an absolute truth, but it’s not. As a collective, women are often gatekeepers to both sex and commitment."

" The 0.5% of the population who are skilled players and have more say with commitment don’t put a dent into this common reality. As a sex, men have very little say in determining the relationship dynamic."

"The only reason we learned game is because women signaled to us that they just want casual sex. We’re extracting easy sex from women who want easy sex. Rest assured you’re not one-night standing girls who want a baby in the next year. No girl is crying because you didn’t call back after a drunken romp in the hopes you would be her husband. These easy girls prefer the one-night stand and they prefer to be your fuck buddy. Don’t kid yourself into thinking your game or fast sex desire is creating your success—women have placed their preferred options on the table and men are simply reacting in a way that gets them a piece of the pie before it’s all gone."

"It would be a nice fantasy for us men to believe that we have a say in relationships and sex. It’d be nice to think that our “alpha” behavior and our game determines how a relationship can proceed, but often it doesn’t. We’re just giving the girl what she has already decided on. Do you really think you’re selling televisions to customers who came into the store with the intent to buy bicycles? The girl who falls in love with us wanted to fall in love with us, the girl who had fun with us wanted to just have fun with us, and so on."

"As the dispensable sex, men will always respond to what women want, and if my extensive experiences with fornication are any indication, modern women want independence and careers over serious relationships with men. Believing that men like myself can cause a degradation of traditional roles is just giving us too much credit.".

rulenumber303 · 2014-06-13T18:36:39+00:00

There's no need to enforce anything, eventually those who are willing to do what it takes to have kids in a society where gender and reproductive roles are more of a personal choice will supplant those who aren't willing. Until then moderate rates of migration from countries with different systems can make up the shortfall. When the reproductive rates in countries that offer personal freedom start to rise again, they can then be the source of migration to the countries they previous took population from and who are now having their own sexual/gender revolutions.

That's the way it works. Over the generations you get more of the ones that are willing to do what it takes not just to fuck but to actually produce offspring under the prevailing conditions. Personal freedom is working out on a bunch of economic levels, we aren't going to go backwards on it just because there's a buncha dumbasses who are feeling put out because they personally aren't willing to do what it takes to leave offspring.

[deleted] · 2014-06-13T18:13:51+00:00

Hell, no. Freedom is the most important value of all, in my opinion and it should not be infringed upon.

Men and women in traditional gender roles may be a system that works well, but only if it results from nature and the willingness to engage in them.

Men may be stupid enough to still engage in their provider role instead of telling society to go fuck itself, but hey, it's their own fault.

Trying to force women into tradtional gender roles would just cause a massive, collective knee-jerk reaction and make society even more feminist and misandrist.

Femme_Murican · 2014-06-13T19:40:39+00:00

Just parents should raise people with good values that's all

[deleted] · 2014-06-14T21:41:32+00:00

No more than anything "not normal" is enforced. Don't break down social structure totally, even if it does seem arbitrary to you - but don't hate the outliers. It is possible.

Denswend · 2014-06-13T15:05:24+00:00

Not pushed or forced. Gently stimulated into by using positive means.

The idea of it is that due to some unexplained mystical force (not going to call a spade a spade and say it's due to evolutionary psychology, cause that's both sexist and racist and something something Hitler) people will be generally happier - source 1 and sorce 2.

Yes, there will always be some people who will not conform to the average. And hence traditional gender roles must not be forced, but they must not be attacked either.

EDIT:

Why is it that the question is always phrased as if to mean that TRP is some form of Hitler enforcing women into slavery of traditional gender roles (a false notion, by the way)? TRP and PUA communities in general do not give a fuck about the average well being of a woman or happiness of an average woman. They're communities for men, by men, and they are under no obligations to rewrite their goals to cater to women (which doesnt mean that they are under obligation to directly and harmfully negatively impact an average woman's happiness). Honestly, sexually liberated "womyn" work well for PUA communities. PUA/TRP is an adaptation to this and they are unlikely to go back to the traditional gender roles - I had a discussion about it when general attitude was very much negative : a man works like a horse to support his family while his wife does the "nurturing". Why would anyone go there since you have easy sluts (thank you based Matriarchy!), videogames, porn, and variety of different fun things to do that do not include marriage. Especially considering the current incarnation of marriage is a huge gamble for a man.

On the consequences of destruction of traditional gender roles, well, another story for another day.

aaron_the_just · 2014-06-13T15:44:00+00:00

Red Pill people range from libertarians to leftists to conservatives to anarchists, so there isn't really a mainstream Red Pill position that "women should be made to do X".

kkjdroid · 2014-06-13T16:13:21+00:00

Absolutely not. They're completely arbitrary in today's society because their original purposes are no longer relevant.

drok007 · 2014-06-13T16:14:16+00:00

I don't think they should be forced or pushed, however I do think people will align with their gender roles on average, and no amount of social change will change how most feel about it deep down.

From this, I think pushing too hard to neutralize it is detrimental and that is forcing people into roles they don't want more than traditional roles.

Overall, people should do what they want. I think the question you should be asking though is: should the push for sameness be enforced like it is?

imissedaword · 2014-06-13T22:33:12+00:00

I don't think you can be forced to act within a gender role. Gender roles social conventions of how we naturally are. You can only be forced out of them.

sh1v · 2014-06-14T11:27:33+00:00

Is it a mainstream Red Pill position that women (or men) should ideally be pushed or forced to behave according to their gender role, or that those who don't should be ostracised to keep this from happening?

First off, equating the use of force with social pressure is ridiculous. Apples and oranges.

Second, what social systems should ideally exist are no part of TRP. TRP is an adaptation to the social systems we already have. Among contributors, there may be some element of pining for the good old days, or spitballing about what an ideal world might look like, but it hardly amounts to a "position". It's basically side chatter; the focus of TRP is always going to be how do we thrive in the world as it presently exists. The focus on the individual, rather than society, is what differentiates TRP from most groups.

Title	Should traditional gender roles be enforced, and how?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	7
Comments	66
Date	June 13, 2014 2:57 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/282067/should_traditional_gender_roles_be_enforced_and/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/should-traditional-gender-roles-be-enforced-and.285497 https://theredarchive.com/post/285497

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