Preparing for divorce

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The_new_Todd
June 24, 2020
23 upvotes
askMRP

I am just looking for any pointers or general advice as I get ready to split from my marriage.

New to TRP. Have read Rational Male and Preventative Medicine. I’m half way through the sidebar.

I’m 46. Married for 20 years. Two daughters aged 17 and 13. I’m white and my wife is black. Had a lot of sex when we were dating. Were together for a few years before we got married. Wife has always been a ball buster. She was crazy in the beginning; we would argue and she would through shit but we would make up and it was pretty much okay. There were some red flags but I was trying to prove to myself I could maintain a relationship. I thought that her demanding nature was a good yin to my yang and would keep me on track. I joined the military and proposed when you came to visit me. She really wanted kids. It was earlier than I wanted but got okay with it. I went back to school (law school) and it was a hard four and half years. During this time she was VERY concentrated on our kids. I was always gone or studying. We weren’t going out. Sex became more and more rare. Cut to the last 7 years, sex maybe once or twice a year. I moved to the back room. I don’t wear my ring.

I told her I wanted to end the marriage. She went crazy. Threatened to divorce rape me. I agreed to try counseling once more hopefully to get us on good terms so we could mediate and work on an amicable split. Counseling was basically her venting but wasn’t doing anything about the issues I had. Honestly, I have no desire to stay with her and have only stayed this entire time because I have been afraid of a custody fight, seeing my daughter’s less and because I make a lot more money than she does. Until recently I don’t even think I could afford to pay her support and still have enough money to survive.

So counseling has been on hold since quarantine. We’ve been fighting a lot lately. We got into several fights over race. She wants to talk about, watch, listen to, stew about violence against black people every moment of every day. Nothing I do is enough and she accuses me of white privilege for my lack of emotion and anger the way she feels right now.

I’m ready to let her know I’m done. My daughter’s birthdays are in May and June so I’m trying to wait until that’s done. I’m leaving to visit my elderly parents after and will be gone for two weeks. My plan is to come back and have the conversation (again). This time will not be a negotiation but I will try to get her to agree to mediation. If she refuses I will file myself. My oldest daughter will be in college in a year so I would rather not hire lawyers but will do it if needed.

So, anything I need to do? I’m 100% in my head every second of every day. Just trying to actually do this because I’ve been on the fence for years.


Post Information
Title Preparing for divorce
Author The_new_Todd
Upvotes 23
Comments 50
Date 24 June 2020 03:47 AM UTC (10 months ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/700028
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/heto3x/preparing_for_divorce/
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Comments

[–]SepeanRed Beret27 points28 points  (4 children) | Copy

Have read Rational Male and Preventative Medicine. I’m half way through the sidebar.

Rollo's book are more sociological observations than actionable advice. Read the first books on the sidebar.

I know you think you've tried everything, but really you haven't done shit. The 101 sidebar will tell you what to do, and if you can follow the strategy outlined, you will fix yourself and that will almost certainly improve your marriage, to a degree you wouldn't believe possible. I went from a wife who barely ever wanted sex and when we had it she seemed bored or disgusted, to having a sweet, loving wife who I can't imagine ever turning me down. If I want a blowjob, I just zip down. I've coached clients through the same process, and it is always the same - all the talking and counselling and trying to please her didn't do shit, but when they learn game and how to hold frame, sex and love return.

If you want to take that path with your wife, or too much have happened between you so you want a divorce anyway, that's your choice. But you have to understand, you got in this mess because of how you behave, and if you don't do the work now you'll have to do it with your next girl, or you'll end up the same.

Here's what I wrote on when to next your wife in this old post: https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/37l2q0/when_to_next_your_wife/

A lot of new guys are coming here and they're at their rope's end. Some can't handle the frustration anymore, some can't imagine they'll ever get over the hatred they feel for their wife, some are sure their wife really is a bitch and they want someone better.

Others seem intent on saving a marriage even though their wife is probably never going to become pleasant company.

The answer I wanted to give to all of them seemed to center around the same few principles, so here is my take on when to next your wife.

*

Time changes everything

I've been at that place where my wife had hurt me so bad so many times I thought she'd killed all feeling for her and I just wanted to hurt her back. I could not imagine it ever working again.

But the fact is that months later we're having lots of great sex, we're happy, and all that's under the bridge. My wife is still capable of being the meanest bitch on Earth, but she's not that way towards me anymore.

All of us has had something bad happen to us and at the time it seemed we would never get over it, but then we did. This could well happen with your wife once she stops being a rejecting bitch. You will not despise your wife forever.

*

Except the things that don't change

The red pill is mainly going to change one thing in your wife: her desire for you.

I have a heuristic I use to find out what people are capable of when they're properly motivated. I look at them at their best. Most people can be shitty friends or shitty workers when they don't care, but look at how they do when their heart is in it. If your wife is and always was a lazy, fat slob that never got along with anyone and couldn't hold a job, you have no chance of turning her into a good wife. Such people just don't have it in them to work up the effort to fight for even their important relationships. But if she is popular among her friends, she can become good company. If she works hard at her job or to take care of the kids, she can work hard for you.

So look at her when she's at her best. Even if you alpha up to the max, you're not going to get better than that. Some women just don't have the energy, self discipline, or agreeableness it takes to become enjoyable company.

*

The grass is greener on the other side

Unless your wife is fucking your brains out, this is a fucking fantasy. Assuming you didn't marry someone that actually is worthless, the problem is you, not her. How your wife treats you is an accurate reflection of your level of alphaness. If you read all the red pill stories about how people are spinning plates and think your life as a single man will be like that, the truth is that you have some work to do.

*

Dread games

Some dread games are always a good idea, but if you're thinking about leaving your wife, they're essential. This guide by /u/BluepillProfessor has a great take on the approach. Read it.

The thing about running dread is that not only does it make your wife realize your value - it also lets you know how well you're really doing and what your alternatives are. It is pointless to leave your wife to spin plates and then finding out that you suck at flirting, don't like it, or have lower SMV than you thought. Dread games lets you gauge your actual progress and gets you out of the idea that your wife is the source of all problems. If you can't pick up women, the problem is you.

When you can pick up other women, you're doing great. You're alpha. You're ready to decide if your future is staying married or nexting her.

*

Next her right

If you are going to next her, don't do it in the heat of the moment. Prepare. Talk to a lawyer, hide finances, get proof you need to not get fucked over in the custody battle. The consequences are going to stay with you for years - enduring marriage for a few more weeks is going to be worth it.

*

TL;DR

  1. Patience. Calm down. Realize that your wife will change and with that your feelings towards her.
  2. Look at your wife at her best, when she is working for something important for her. If she sucks at that, she's a lost cause; next her. Otherwise, the problem is you, not her.
  3. Improve yourself, lift and lead.
  4. Play dread games. When you can flirt successfully with other women, your wife is going to be wet for you too; this is the time you want to decide if you want a divorce, not before.
  5. If you still want to next her, see a lawyer and prepare properly.

[–]The_new_Todd[S] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

You packed a lot in here. Thanks so much for the meaningful reply. You're right; I'm in no rush and can take the time to figure it out and do it right. Thank you.

[–]JudgeDoom690 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

see a lawyer and prepare properly

Going for an initial consultation is a good step. They will lay it all out for you so you know how the division of assets will go, and how much you'll be on the hook for monthly, custody, etc.

Even if you don't go forward with the divorce, the initial consultation will arm you with knowledge, which will take a lot off your mind.

[–]The_new_Todd[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Thanks again. I'm actually an attorney (contracts, not family law) but I did have a consultation. She gave me her thoughts, ran a Disomaster so I know what I'm in for financially. She is ready to go if I end up going the lawyer route. Hoping it won't come to that but I am prepared if necessary.

[–]AlohaMaui8082 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're going to want to get consultations with the Top 5-10 divorce attorneys in your area so that you conflict them out for your wife. Worth the 2-4k investment in long term dividends.

[–]into_being16 points17 points  (3 children) | Copy

Holy fucking dumpster fire, you have work to do... in addition to reading and digesting the existing tomes of divorce resources on MRP... here's a couple quick thoughts from my experience.

  1. QUIETLY get a lawyer, plan for the end. You're a fool and a coward if you don't at least prepare your plan. Your rationalizations and fence-sitting play into her advantage. Call 3 lawyers tomorrow, schedule initial consults, and go prepared with financials and come to terms with the battlefield ASAP.
  2. Get ready to "file first" and take the legal advantage.
  3. Zero-out. You will 'lose' more than you're ready to. Whether that's time with your kids, money in your accounts, alimony on weekly basis, retirement that's 'yours', a house that was a "home". Every month you don't prepare and act only increases the gravity of these losses.
  4. You must prepare to lose even your relationships and esteem among common friends, colleagues, in-laws. You will be painted as the bad-guy. You must learn to live with this. In the end, it's never worthwhile to play the shit-talking or drama games.
  5. Embrace being the bad guy. Read "never split the difference" and play hard when it's time to do so. Demand more than you really want and offer concessions on the things you never really wanted to begin with.

This will likely be an important and painful pivot point in your life. Don't forget to focus on your kids. Focus on your love for them and yourself. This is not the time to play petty drama games. This is the time to focus on the important things like health, growth and exhibit to your kids strength amidst the chaos and pain of unwinding a family unit. Prepare for dark days and the liberation that follows.

It's a process. It takes 4x as much time and sucks more and costs more than it should. It won't fix your fuckedupedness. Divorce only ends the marriage.

Be well.

[–]The_new_Todd[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Thank you. I have been coming to terms with how difficult and trying this will be. I have always tried to be a nice guy and I know I have to ask for more than I would be satisfied with. The relationship with my daughter's is paramount and I will definitely focus on them and make sure they know I am there for them. It is time to be a rock and make sure I'm solid in preparation for the storm.

[–]LghtrThrstngGods2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I have always tried to be a nice guy

sirens and flashing lights intensify

Have you read the very well named "No More Mr. Nice Guy?"

It's on the sidebar, man... read the sidebar!

[–]The_new_Todd[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I know it's a problem. No More Mr. Nice Guy is on my list. I should get to it this week. Just so much to read but I am definitely looking forward to that book and the insights I hope to get from it.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret7 points8 points  (6 children) | Copy

So you were arguing with her a lot, and you married her. Now, you’re still arguing a lot.

Did you not learn the first rule of MRP - STFU, never argue with a woman?

You tell us 2 books you read, and then say you read half the sidebar. Which one is it?

This post is all a out her. Tell us what you learned by reading and following MRP....

You’ve learned nothing- including your MRP time. You will likely get divorced and repeat the same train wreck with another woman.

[–]The_new_Todd[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

I started reading Rollo's first two books. Done. I'm now working my way through the sidebar. The whole thing has been converted to a Kindle format and I'm halfway done. As I mentioned, I've been dealing with "this" for many years but have only been exposed to TRP for a few months. I know that I have failed every one of her shit tests and done everything wrong in this relationship making her see me as Beta as can be. I don't think she knows that's what she's been doing and I know that it doesn't matter. I know I have dreamed of finding "the one" so different from my wife. This would surely turn into Oneitis for me to repeat this same thing. No desire to go through this again and plan on taking a long time to work on game after I am out of this. I know I have tons to work on. Aside from reading and working out (which I do constantly), there is only so much I can do quarantined in a house with my wife and daughters. But I DO KNOW I have lots to learn and I'm nowhere near out of the woods.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

A few months you’ve been at this? You need a year or 2. STFU and lift. Also, I recommend reading the side bar one book at a time instead of reading the way you were reading it. In my opinion, it’s much more effective. You are basically quitting before you even put in the work.

[–]The_new_Todd[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

I'm not expecting a quick fix. Even though the sidebar is one big PDF I've loaded into my Kindle, it's still separated one book at a time. So for instance, right now I'm in the middle of The Manipulated Man. I'm making sure to reflect on each individual book as I work my way through. If you mean I'm quitting the marriage before I put in the work, I might tend to agree but so much damage has been done to this relationship that I don't even consider myself to be married to my wife any longer other than legally. It may be an excuse and I'll own it but I can't be with this woman any longer. I know I still need to do the work or repeat this failure OF MINE but don't have it in me to unwind this any longer.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

so much damage has been done to this relationship

If this is true, then cut your losses. If not, you will most likely repeat the same mistakes. Even if it didn’t work out, you working on yourself would be a great practice field for any future relationships..

Personally, if I ever got divorced (again) with 4+ yrs of swallowing the pill, I would spin plates for at least 10 years. It’s easier said than done though. I’ve seen some good friends thinking they are RP now only to fall into yet another crappy relationship. One of them moved her across the country after 3 months because she’s a snowflake. Now, a year later, she moved her teenage son in. He sent me a text the other day because he is in training across the country for a new job. He went off about how it’s so nice not having kids to take care of and a girlfriend bitching at him. He has invisible chains binding him.

The problem is he didn’t do the work. Now, he’s going to stay with her until he can’t take it anymore and it will be “all her fault.” Then, a year later, he will repeat it.

Rinse, repeat.

[–]The_new_Todd[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I think that's probably the case with me and don't plan on any LTR for a long time. My old boss just got married again for the 3rd time. I want to expose him to TRP but he may be hopeless. Going to clean up my own house first. Don't ever want to be in this situation again.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Seriously, you should consider practicing with your current for a bit... you’re not going to learn on your own... books are useless without experience. At a minimum, work on Stfu, some AN, A&A, maybe some fogging....

[–]AlohaMaui8086 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

In the MRP sidebar you'll find the divorce prep section.

You need to suck it up for the short term and STFU about your desire to divorce if you want to have the best outcome for yourself and your children.

The divorce section is now your Bible. Read it, then reread it, then make yourself a plan of action with all the steps you will need to take to have 6 months of journal entries, records, and documentation backing up you as the better positioned parent for full custody (this will hopefully give you the leverage to ensure 50/50 custody if things go poorly and a power move of generosity if things go well that will help ensure some good will - don't get greedy unless she is actually a danger to your children)

^ this part is key since your wife is so opposed to the divorce

I'd also suggest that you encourage her to get a better job/income over the next 6 months. It will help lessen any alimony.

Take it or leave it - my guess is you're too much of a faggot to be an Oak for 6 months while you prepare for successful divorce proceedings.

Prove me wrong.

[–]The_new_Todd[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Harsh but I get your sentiment. I will take your words to heart and become intimately familiar with the divorce section. The journal is a fantastic idea. Will start that today. I'm not greedy. Just want equal time with my daughters. She has a job. She earns a decent amount and I don't think she could find anything that pays more. The problem is I've done really well the past 5 years and my income has skyrocketed. Double edged sword. It is what it is. I'll be happy to prove you wrong.

[–]johneyapocalypseThe one that says "Bad Motherfucker"6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

"I joined the military and proposed when you came to visit me."

Freudian slip?

So, anything I need to do?

Hire an attorney dumbass.

You might not just get divorce raped, you might even get divorce lynched.

She went crazy + Threatened to divorce rape me =/= I agreed to try counseling.

[–]The_new_Todd[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Slip of the non-Freudian variety. Was just trying to de-escalate but I get your point. I have spoken to an attorney and they are ready to go if needed.

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy

Read the divorce advice section on the sidebar. If you don't know what a sidebar is, use your computer and not your phone to browse Reddit.

[–]business---travel1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Read the divorce advice section on the sidebar.

I second this advice, OP. In addition, I would recommend put together a MAP and hit the entire sidebar once you have filed for divorce. You need to start doing the work and preparing for the next chapter of your life: read, hit the sidebar, lift heavy, and STFU.

[–]The_new_Todd[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Thanks. Making the sidebar a priority, done and done.

[–]business---travel1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Good luck. Feel free to reach out if you want any suggestions on other readings and content as well.

[–]The_new_Todd[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Really appreciate that. Thanks so much.

[–]The_new_Todd[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Will do. Yep, on the computer.

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy

It sounds like neither of you provide any value to each other.

Why are you even still married?

[–]The_new_Todd[S] -1 points0 points  (8 children) | Copy

I am a provider. That's my value to her. She is a good mom. That's it. We're married for the family and because we're Catholics. My parents never divorced. There is a lot of guilt and sense of commitment keeping me here. It's taken me years to get over that and realize I need to get out.

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy

Blah, blah, I did this, coz reasons, blah, she did that, blah, blah, coz reasons, blah, blah, religion and society made me do it, blah, blah, blah, guilt, blah, blah, commitment, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[–]The_new_Todd[S] -3 points-2 points  (6 children) | Copy

???? Just explaining. Thanks for nothing. Lots of great advice but not from you.

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

Do you think I'm here to listen to your pathetic fucking excuses and spoon feed your advice like you're a fucking two year old?

I didn't want a fucking meaningless explanation. The fact that you gave me one only shows how much of a fucking retard you are.

[–]The_new_Todd[S] -1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy

And yet you're one of only two responses offering no constructive advice. Thanks for nothing.

[–]mindfulbutgutlessRed Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Those 2 "useless" pieces of advise are your first two steps. A) allowing the facts to be seen, you provide nothing for each other B) prepare to burn it all down, and be ok with that.

Every one else is giving you advise you need after you figure out A & B

[–]The_new_Todd[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I appreciate that. Your comment is much more constructive than someone who takes what I say and re-phrases it "blah blah blah" and calls it an excuse. I take full responsibility for my situation and was just answering a direct question. That said, I am 100% in agreement that the facts are clear, that she and I don't provide anything for each other any longer and that I need to burn it down (marriage, not my relationship with my daughters). I think you're right; I was asking about advice for after A & B.

[–]mindfulbutgutlessRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I take full responsibility for my situation and was just answering a direct question

Not really, you were defending your position with rationalizations and explanations. You need to sit down and give No More Mr Nice Guy a read and go through the breaking free activities in it.

You are DEERing left and right. This ego driven. Your responses are irrelevant, especially when you are not asked a question. The messages provided was from experience. We are not going to sabotage you nor will we spoon feed the material. As my high school counselor used to say, take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth.

[–]Chump_No_More0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The advise was plenty constructive, you're just not in the proper Frame to understand it.

If you're DEER-ing to complete strangers, then it doesn't take much imagination to guess the dysfunction and disrespect in your marriage.

If you said, "I understand my words are meaningless and you are correct in harshly pointing that out. Henceforth, my actions will speak for my character.", the response would have been much different.

This is a hot kitchen, if you can't stand it, then GTFO. But understand your life will be much worse for it. Nobody here is going to hand you a cheat sheet, because nothing obtained easily has value.

Time for you to quit whinging and get to work.

[–]DrBeaufort1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Similar situation here- I'm white and my wife is black, and the current situation is overwhelming to her, and nearly all she can think or talk about. I've had regular accusations of white privilege and even white supremacy for not talking about it as much as her, even though I am the furthest thing from that. All I can say is that if you have any desire to fix the relationship, you should try to understand how viscerally terrifying recent events have been to black people, and support her. Tell her you understand and let her just relax on you while you hold her. If you're new to TRP, you might just be going RAMBO and need to calm down and work on yourself instead of blowing things up- if the problem is you, you won't be better off with anyone else.

[–]The_new_Todd[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks; it's definitely a tough situation for inter-racial couples right now. That said, the situation is just another way our problems are manifesting. If it wasn't this it would be something else (it has been for years). I did go to a protest with her and my daughters and do my best to be supportive. But unfortunately, so much damage has been done between us and for such a long time, I don't have it in my heart to give any more to her. That may have been my fault (I've certainly been a beta) but I was doing my best to do what she asked for and didn't know any better. Not an excuse. I own it. But we're in a place that I don't see any way of walking back from.

[–]Big_Daddy_PDX1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

A major issue is when one person goes through their personal hell to finally decide to divorce and they let the cat out of the bag and verbalize. That is NOT the time to go to marriage counseling. The relationship is over for you. Your STBX would have to be supermodel hot and bring in 7-figure salty for you to justify staying. But and aging, angry woman that doesn’t put out?!

Here’s the thing; YOU are the problem. You allowed and encouraged all of this. Your STBX is really the only person that can help you unfuck yourself. You need to take time and put in the work to figure out why you are such a Blue Pussy so that you don’t do the same things in your next relationship.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy

Let her have all the money, stuff and kids.

Fuck it all.

Go enjoy your life.

[–]The_new_Todd[S] -1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy

Really sound advice. Why did you even bother to take the time to reply? You either have not been in this situation or care so little about things to not take this seriously.

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

You're with a woman that has fucked you 7 times in as many years, you don't know why you married her and now you've come here asking a bunch of anonymous internet retards if you should divorce her or not.

Why should anyone take your life seriously when clearly you don't even do that yourself?

[–]The_new_Todd[S] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

When I was in law school a teacher took off 10 points anyone wrote "clearly" in their exams. You say I clearly don't take my life seriously but don't say how I do that or why. I completely disagree and find your flippant conclusions and comments unhelpful and not worthy of any further reply.

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Well, one thing is for sure - you're clearly retarded.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Really sound advice.

I know.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Get a fucking lawyer ASAP! Keep a log of everything, all conversations, purchases, time with the kids, etc.

[–]The_new_Todd[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Lawyer is on call. You're the second one to recommend keeping a log of everything. Starting that right away. Thank you.

[–]a-little-spice0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Read “fuck it, get a divorce”. It really puts life into perspective. It’s just a marriage that didn’t work like millions and millions of others. It’s no big deal.

[–]The_new_Todd[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Okay, thanks. My whole journey started with "The Subtle Art of Not Giving A Fuck" and your recommendation sounds like a great follow up.

[–]JameisBong0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Omg bro you married a black feminist? Worst idea ever, lol and I'm black.

Divorce is the right move, all the best she will make your life hell so prepare accordingly.



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