What women mean when they say they want a nice guy.

2013-11-19T15:06:55+00:00

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ToTheLogicalExtreme · 2013-11-19T14:14:38+00:00

I think women instinctively and unconsciously know that nice guys are rarely succesful. They're not risk takers and play everything safe, that's not super appealing to women.

C_D_O · 2013-11-19T15:06:45+00:00

I like the thought process, but i think you're off point mate

Honestly I think its much simpler: women say they want a "nice" guy because its what their conditioned to say in society. Can you imagine how it would go down if a girl honestly admitted "i just want big popular guy who doesnt take my shit and can fuck me in bed and will take me to the best parties?"

I dont think its meekness that isnt seen as "nice" infact being referred to as a "nice guy" by a woman is almost verbatim that shes not interested in fucking you.

Another way of looking at this, is simple again, how many girls have you seen call a guy an asshole or a jerk and then sleep with him that same night. Obviously the behavior is coming across to them as "asshole" even if its playful, so they recognize his behavior as assholish and uncaring, but the attraction is built regardless.

jagrmeister721 · 2013-11-19T13:44:43+00:00

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tubbyurchin · 2013-11-19T14:48:53+00:00

Men are assholes to their friends faces and don't mean it, women are nice to their friends' faces and don't mean it

Whisper · 2013-11-19T18:42:03+00:00

I'll make it simpler for you.

A woman's world begins and ends with her. A "good" man is a man who makes her have good feelings. A "bad" man is one who makes her have bad feelings. A "boring" man is one who doesn't give her any feelings at all.

It doesn't matter how other people than her experience him. It doesn't matter about all those investors he bilked, or about all those homeless people he took in, got jobs for, and helped to put their lives together again. If that investment fraud buys her nice things, he's a good man. If those homeless guys are scary to be around, he's an asshole.

Just think about dealing with a five year old. To a five year old, "that's not fair" means "I don't get what I want". To a five year old, "bad" means "feels bad". To a five year old, the man who ran over her dog is a bad man and must be punished, regardless of whether he meant to do it or not, or even whether he had the physical capability to stop in time. To a five year old, daddy is bad if he tells her she cannot have ice cream for breakfast, or stay up past her bedtime.

And the problem with this worldview is that it's contagious within a society. Why?

Because everyone feels bad when we see a woman being made unhappy. Yes, even us hardcore "misogynists" here at TRP. It's hardwired into our species. The reason we have to fight so hard against Captain Save-A-Ho is that he lives in all of us, waiting for a moment of weakness.

But if we start regarding female unhappiness as inherently and invariably bad simply because it makes us feel bad, then we are being like that five year old. And when we act on those feelings, we protect women from having to share, and have responsibilities, and sacrifice for others. Which causes them to grow up into the big five year olds described above.

Women aren't hardwired to be the "most mature teenager in the house". That would be silly. That would not be a survival trait for the species. But making them that way is a self reinforcing process, and we are deep into that downward spiral.

2013-11-19T15:52:42+00:00

What women mean by this is they want an alpha who manifests beta traits just for her- but not too much or she'll lose attraction.

thoumyvision · 2013-11-19T15:33:06+00:00

"When women claim to be seeking kindness, respect, a sense of humor, etc., they mean at most that they would like to find these qualities in the men who are already within their erotic field of view. When a man asks what women are looking for, he is trying to find out how he can get into that field of view. Women do not normally say, either because they do not know themselves or because it embarrasses them to speak about it. The advice they do give harms a lot of lonely men who mistakenly concentrate their mating effort on showing kindness and courtesy to ungrateful brats rather than working to gain the things females actually respond to." -F. Roger Devlin, The Feminine Sexual Counter-Revolution and its Limitations

yunm · 2013-11-19T15:29:55+00:00

As a girl, I think this is spot on. Women also want to be made to laugh. Most of my girlfriends I am constantly insulting, even dudes seem to laugh more the meaner I am. I've asked why and they say they know I don't mean it. If a guy is insulting me and simultaneously trying to get with me I know he also doesn't mean it, and it's funny. Being funny is a huge turn on. The people who don't laugh (friends or guys looking at other guys in a bar) are assholes who take the world too seriously. Anyways, I think this is spot on.

kzwrp · 2013-11-19T14:17:29+00:00

You underestimate how much validation the average women can score by beta peers, orbiters, and people not even interested in her.

ArcticSpyder · 2013-11-19T16:12:55+00:00

I'm relatively new here, can anyone tell me what SMV means?

trplurker123 · 2013-11-20T01:57:31+00:00

I noticed that this is near the top post of /r/seduction and /r/TheRedPill

Can someone compare and contrast audience reaction to this piece?

Also, good work OP. This is something to mull over.

Archwinger · 2013-11-19T16:14:45+00:00

I disagree with the hypothesis. If there's one thing women definitely don't want, it's a womanly man. They don't want to fuck a guy who treats them like he's one of their girlfriends. A guy who's just one of the girls is friend-zone material.

The fact that teasing and negging a girl demonstrates value, and the fact that girls are catty with each other, is coincidental. They're not related. Women are attracted to a guy who teases/negs them, not because they perceive this as a guy who cares, but the exact opposite -- they perceive this as a guy who doesn't care, when they've been fending off complements and free drinks from chumps all night. A guy who doesn't care entices them, because he subconsciously sends signals that he has options and is valuable. He's a prize, and it triggers her instincts to pursue him.

Also, women most certainly do not want a nice guy. That's what they say, and it's even what they think, but it's not what they actually want to sleep with. Because nice guys send subconscious signals that they have to be nice because they're weak-willed, lack options, and are afraid of screwing things up.

Offensive_Brute · 2013-11-19T16:58:12+00:00

this post made me realize that I spend way too much time thinking about women, and what they want and how they think and feel.

HeadingRed · 2013-11-19T20:44:55+00:00

Often when a woman is asked "what do you want" they answer with what they think they should want. Sometime with what they are told to want. It's hard to get a woman to give you the answer due to them often not being able to admit what they want.

So- "what kind of a guy do you want?" Hamster engaged - winding up - brief wiff of ozone and molten rubber "A nice guy who loves me for me and respects me and wants to make me happy"

Translation- right now someone who gets me wet. Once I'm done playing around and want some stability, a pliable man whose good looking enough that I'm not embarrassed but not so hot that I have to worry my friends banging him.

EarnestMalware · 2013-11-19T15:10:11+00:00

You know, the saving harsh words for your best friends used to be called jocular humor - it was literally a male way of bonding with friends. Women 50 years ago didn't pick up the phone like, "Hey slut!" But now they do, so act accordingly. OP is 100% correct in his observation that girlfriends save to-your-face compliments for enemies and often tease and insult their friends.

2013-11-19T23:49:58+00:00

Much much much simplier than that:

When women say they want a nice guy, they actually mean that they dont want a mean guy (it's sound better). They dont want a guy who insult, cheat, beat or disrespected them. If you dont do these things, you're nice. If you do actually nice things (send flowers at her job after 3 dates or telling her she's the most perfect girl in the universe or proposed to picking her and hey friends at the bar at 3 am) you're either a good friend or a ''creep''.

2013-11-20T05:41:27+00:00

I think it means "I don't want to sound too selfish and shallow so I'll say this when people are listening. Then when nobody is looking I'll fuck the guy with the highest SMV."

2013-12-09T18:50:53+00:00

Theory is fine in that context. Theory is a synonym with hypothesis in non-scientific usage. A scientific theory is a falsifiable explanation for a wide range of phenomena that makes testable predictions and blah blah blah - very distinct from hypothesis. A simple theory is just a hypothesis or possible explanation for some observation.

masterrod · 2013-11-19T15:27:07+00:00

I think you're pretty spot on.. But the girl really does want all those things..

"nice", "charming", or "smart".

But what she doesn't say is she wants them at the right times.

She wants the guy to be nice when generosity is required. When being with her family, or her friends. But not nice all the time.

Charming when sex is in the air, cause she doesn't want to feel like a used wet rag afterwards.

Smart when it comes to figuring her out, cause she knows she's fucking crazy. And if the guys not smart enough, she can't really hope to be loved. Worst yet she will have to do everything herself.

So when a man cracks a joke teasing the girl, he is demonstrating a sense of affability -- in the girl's mind. That's the treatment she is used to from her closest friends. It is behavior that is reflective of people who care for her. Her friends call her slut and bitch to her face -- her enemy validates her and goes on, not revealing her intentions or feelings, calling her a bitch behind her back (sound like a beta?).

The last paragraph about saying things to her face isn't always the best thing. Her friends have liberties that you just don't have. Especially if they are women. Moreover, I think getting deep into telling her what she is is ok at some points, but horrible at others. Sometimes it's better to show someone how they are acting rather than tell them. The main thing beta lacks is he is not willing to do that at all, he's willing to tolerate her moods versus exploring them, having fun with them, and hopefully bringing her to a better place. Fortunately, hat's the promise that only an alpha can give her. Which is why she craves him...

pitlord713 · 2013-11-19T17:59:24+00:00

I_put_mukmuk_on_face RP philosopher of the year

vaker · 2013-11-19T20:29:33+00:00

Women say they want "nice guys" the same way Men say they want a "smart girl who I can talk to". It's what we've been conditioned to say because admitting the truth in a social setting has become a faux pas even though we're all thinking the same thing.

This is why I advise every man to never hold his tongue. Speak your fucking mind. Yeah, the betas and followers around you will respond with a unified, sanctimonious outcry, upset that you had the balls to say what they were thinking, and the women will feign the same indignation, but underneath you'll be the man who stands out and gets their attention.

disso · 2013-11-19T17:01:47+00:00

It's not just women. This is how men feel out and establish social hierarchy and connections. Through shit-talking/banter. People who can make fun of each other are typically comfortable with each other. This is why Agree & Amplify is such a valuable tool. When you banter like this with a woman you are treating her like one-of-the-guys, showing her a bit of your "social repertoire" and for sure not putting her on a pedestal.

In this instance I would say the "nice guy" part is a combination of "in-tune socially" and "able to banter without getting defensive or out-of-line"

2013-11-19T19:33:05+00:00

"You know I'd take you home RIGHT now if I didn't think you'd break your leg before we got to the car with those heels."

50% of the women and girls I know would just roll their eyes and walk away.

50% would give a courtesy laugh and walk away.

PaulRivers10 · 2013-11-19T21:17:57+00:00

But lets look at her closest group of friends. I mean a group of girls that have been REALLY GREAT friends. You'll notice they have no inhibitions of calling themselves and each others sluts and bitches (i.e. "OMG I LOVE THESE BITCHES SOOO MUCH. BESTIE SLUTS 4EVER!!!). And how do they talk to the girl they hate the most? They hide their hate and continue to talk nicely about the girl -- even going so far as complimenting that girl when in her presence -- more validation falling on deaf ears. So when a man validates a woman, he's doing the same exact thing one woman would do to another woman she despises not one who TRULY cares about her.

So when a man cracks a joke teasing the girl, he is demonstrating a sense of affability -- in the girl's mind. That's the treatment she is used to from her closest friends. It is behavior that is reflective of people who care for her. Her friends call her slut and bitch to her face -- her enemy validates her and goes on, not revealing her intentions or feelings, calling her a bitch behind her back (sound like a beta?).

Yes.

I think you're completely on point, and I realized the same thing a while back, and it's the thing that's let me do what I need to do - realizing that women aren't "horribly emotionally injured" by teasing them. In fact the reason it works - is because this is how women treat each other.

I remember figuring out why "negging" works - I was flipping through the channels and Glee was on. The plot was that one high school girl was sexually interested in some much older guy - I think he was married, he might have had kids. Her friend - with this big, warm comforting smile on her face - tells her that the only reason she feels that way was because she didn't see herself as valuable enough. I don't remember the exact phrasing, but the whole feeling was like "aw, I'm looking out for you!".

But through lens of negging, I realized - the girl is negging the other girl. She's saying "if you follow those feelings, you are not valuable as a person". She was talking about the other girls feelings, and calling her feelings - idiotic and low value.

I realized the same thing you did - it works because this is how girls communicate with each other.

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That being said, girls are not a completely homogenous entity. Different girls will react different to different styles. Some girls are a single child who's never used to being challenged, and will never really react positively to anyone. Some girls will like it as long as it's fun, playful teasing, but if it gets at all dark will instantly hate it. Other girls won't like it as light playful teasing, but will be fine with it if it's at least a little dark (often the "we only talk about negative things when we're upset" model). A few women you can actually be more direct with and teasing won't get you good results.

The bigger question I had to ask myself was - why was this a thing?

And I realized it was simple - girls think with their emotions (well guys do to, but that's a different subject) - emotions are pattern based thinking. Saying that you cannot offend their emotions is like saying that you cannot tell a guy he's being an idiot.

A lot of times you don't tell your friends they're an idiot to their face. You kind of hint at it. You kinda point it out to the side. Then - other times - you're just like "lol man, that's the dumbbest thing I've ever seen!".

You need some way to communicate with your girlfriend when you think her emotional thinking is stupid. People who communicate intellectually with other people cannot do so while avoiding ever saying anything bad about their thoughts, and people who communicate emotionally cannot do so while never saying anything bad about the other persons emotions.

Phorgasmic · 2013-11-19T13:49:02+00:00

i think youre on to something here. its all about vulnearibility here (reread models today..) i think! you make yourself vulnearable saying something like this to a woman. you display a IDGAF attitude to her like her social circle does.

saying only 'nice' things isnt open/honest/vulnearable

2013-11-19T15:31:41+00:00

Great (long) piece from Pook on emerging past the simple Nice Guy & Jerk choices: http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16903

OccamsUsername · 2013-11-19T18:51:10+00:00

I agree that for me (as a woman), teasing (to point out a characteristic unique to me/or something about my personality) is one way that the people closest to me ( family, friends, SO) show they accept and care about me (despite my oddities as a person).

None of my friends would refer to me as a bitch or slut, because I would find that highly offensive, however, I have seen many women (especially the women on my athletic teams) exhibit this very behavior of name calling to one another's faces as well as behind each other's backs. Women are weirdly competitive with each other and a lot of odd behaviors develop over time as a result.

I think teasing can be affable, and it can also be malicious. It all depends on the person teasing, their tone, and the person being teased. Young kids that tease their peers are hardly seen as nice, caring, and friendly.

I can't speak for all women (and I'm really thankful about that, because most of the time they just confuse me), but I can tell the difference between someone that genuinely cares for/about me, and someone that's just feeding me a line.

A really nice observation however, and I think it holds true in (several different ways) for many women.

likechoklit4choklit · 2013-11-19T19:50:06+00:00

I think women crave all of those things in addition the "bad boy" the "tough guy" or the "alpha." Now, thanks to birth control, they can sample all of them. Just like some guys have a range for the types of women they want a relationship with: sexual, romantic, domestic, etc. The older woman 45 year old divorce is going to be a different relationship than the younger woman 23 year old nurse.

2013-11-19T20:02:22+00:00

When girls talk about meeting a "nice guy^TM", there are a couple of things to remember.

Never trust what she actually says. She is thinking about being in a happy relationship, and most women fantasize of "nice" fairy tale-like men who will sweep her off her feet.
What would actually constitute "nice" in her mind? Someone who validates her emotions and opinions. But what nice guy beta orbiters don't seem to realize is that such validation is only appreciated when it comes from high value men. Compliments from guys with poor frame or who are deemed to be unattractive barely register in their minds. Not being complimented by high value men make her question her own value, and in such situations, only receiving compliments from low SMV beta orbiters might make her feel worse by confirming her concerns.

JAK11501 · 2013-11-19T21:07:22+00:00

This is my take. Women say they want a nice guy the same way you want a nice car meaning you want a guy/car that works the way it was intended. A car is nice because it runs well, comfortable, good gas mileage etc. A guy is a nice guy by a woman's definition when he is assertive, confident, basically takes the alpha role.

BellatorCordis · 2013-11-19T21:23:51+00:00

I think that women genuinely do want nice guys... as friends. Most women are just oblivious as to what makes them sexually attracted to a person, and as a result they default to what they look for in non-sexual relationships when asked what they look for in a lover.

If I didn't know that I was primarily sexually attracted to fit, healthy, fertile women, when asked what I look for in a lover I would probably say something along the lines of what I like in a friend too. You actually see this some, I think. Society's repression of male sexuality produces a lot of sexually naive men (hence all of the betas we see). These same guys say they want a woman who is 'one of the guys', is down with watching sports and drinking beer, plays video games, etc. I have also met plenty of unattractive women (usually overweight or socially obnoxious) who fit that bill, and I am sure that most of these same guys wouldn't bed them unless they were really desperate. The difference is that men, with 10-20x the amount of testosterone as women, are a lot more willing to sleep with unattractive partners.

assholetruth · 2013-11-20T00:44:51+00:00

Just be yourselves peeps

VodkaTankerSpill · 2013-11-19T16:46:22+00:00

Too much overthinking. They want a guy they are attracted to be nice, since the guys they are usually attracted to (badboy, asshole) are not nice.

AlmostRP · 2013-11-19T22:14:04+00:00

Try not to think they are doing all this consciously, though. Seems like at some points you see them as doing this on purpose.

prairiebandit · 2013-11-19T22:37:01+00:00

But how was he being nice??? How in the hell can a woman think he's possibly a nice guy?!

You're way off the mark here OP. When a female suggests they want a "nice guy" they are generalizing that they want someone who treats them well and is someone they can have fun with. You might be the nicest guy on the planet but if they can't have fun with you, i.e. personality incompatibilities. It won't work out.

Edit: What's important to remember sadly is that girls are perceived to have all the "choice." Keeping on topic of TRP subject matter. It order to stand up to this behavior you yourself need to find a "nice girl".

Title	What women mean when they say they want a nice guy.
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	156
Comments	86
Date	November 19, 2013 1:35 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1qz3tu/what_women_mean_when_they_say_they_want_a_nice_guy/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/what-women-mean-when-they-say-they-want-a-nice-guy.8080 https://theredarchive.com/post/8080

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