Hey guys, im a 13 year old mens rights activist and im wondering if these are some good rebuttals. My school is full of feminists so i just wanna make sure that i know what to say if they bring any of these things up :)

EvilLothar · 2019-10-31T17:58:32+00:00

Good for you!

I wouldn't listen to much to the people telling you to keep your mouth shut. This is how they keep you down and keep you quite. Just make sure you are aware that if you stand out, the will try to knock you down. If you're a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

That being said, if you go in with your eyes open, and a good "Don't give a fuck" attitude to the stupid shit they say, you can bring up things that point out what you want to say using their own talking points.

Q: What do you think about 1 in 4 homeless being women? After their answer of "it's terrible" point out "Do you realize that means that 3 of 4 homeless people are men?" and watch the hamster run.

Q: Do you think that babies should be protected from genital mutilation? What about circumcision?

Q: Should we have more women in board rooms and CEO positions? Where is the outcry about getting more women into garbage pickup, road construction, sewage work?

Q: Should people get special treatment based on their gender, or should everyone be treated the same? Should people get special treatment based on skin color? How about beliefs? What about height? - Most people feel that people should be treated the same, but they don't actually know what "the same" means. then bring up affermative action, the draft, women's only grants, etc. How is that "fair".

Some girls are just parroting what they've been taught, and when someone points out the double standards or incorrect thinking, they are quick to agree it's wrong, and aren't really "feminists" as it currently is, but more equality for all types.. I wouldn't tar them with the same brush until they stick to the feminist talking points despite having a good conversation with them and pointing out the flaws in their "logic".

Men-Are-Human · 2019-10-31T18:14:28+00:00

Megathread of men's issues that may help: https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/dl5r6r/lets_discuss_how_women_exert_power_and_influence/

Ownyourfreedom · 2019-10-31T18:47:56+00:00

Feminism and Sexism Facts with Sources:

“Women earn 77 cents to a man’s dollar.”

https://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/p60-239.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayILjfYs7xw

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jun/21/barack-obama/barack-obama-ad-says-women-are-paid-77-cents-dolla/

That statistic is simply the difference between average earnings of all men and all women, working full-time.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/jul/15/politifact-sheet-gender-pay-gap/

It does not account for differences in occupation, position, education, job tenure or hours worked per week.

https://www.shrm.org/hr-today/public-policy/hr-public-policy-issues/Documents/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf

The average man spends 14% more time at work.

https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2015/time-spent-working-by-full-and-part-time-status-gender-and-location-in-2014.htm

He’s 9 times more likely to die there.

https://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/20/the-most-dangerous-jobs-in-america/

Men choose the highest-paid specialties.

https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/highest-paying-college-majors-gender-composition-of-students-earning-degrees-in-those-fields-and-the-gender-pay-gap/

Four of the five highest paid college majors are filled with more men than women.
https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/valueofcollegemajors/

Four of the five lowest paid college majors are filled with a majority of women.
https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/valueofcollegemajors/

Georgetown University compiled a list of the five best-paying college majors, and the percentage of men or women majoring in those fields:

Number 1 best-paying major: Petroleum Engineering: 87% male

Number 2: Pharmaceutical Sciences: 48% male

Number 3: Mathematics and Computer Science: 67% male

Number 4: Aerospace Engineering: 88% male

Number 5: Chemical Engineering: 72% male

Notice that women out-represent men in only one of the five top-paying majors – by only a few percentage points. Now consider the same study’s list of the five worst paying college majors:

Number 1: Counseling and Psychology: 74% female

Number 2: Early Childhood Education: 97% female

Number 3: Theology and Religious Vocations: 66% male

Number 4: Human Services and Community Organization: 81% female

Number 5: Social Work: 88% female

Georgetown Study: https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/valueofcollegemajors/

Young, childless women age 22 - 30, outearn young childless men by 8%. http://content.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274,00.html

And among workers who have never been married and never had children, women earn 117% of what men do.

https://www.forbes.com/2006/05/12/women-wage-gap-cx_wf_0512earningmore.html#69a08cd0528a

76% suicides are men

https://www.menshealthforum.org.uk/key-data-mental-health

85% of homeless are men

https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/may/07/men-gender-divide-feminism

https://www.crisis.org.uk/media/236815/the_hidden_truth_about_homelessness.pdf

70% of homicide victims are men

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homicide_statistics_by_gender

40% of domestic abuse victims are men

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/sep/05/men-victims-domestic-violence

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/domestic-violence-male-victims-shelters-government-funding-stigma-a7626741.html

http://www.parity-uk.org/

Men are majority of victims of violent crime.

https://www.victimsweek.gc.ca/res/r512.html

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/VIOCRM.PDF

Men on average serve 64% longer prison sentences than women for comparable crimes.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2144002

Men on average are 3.4X more likely to be imprisoned than women who both committed the same crime

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2144002

Women commit more than twice as much unprovoked domestic violence against men than men commit against women.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1854883/

https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/statutes/epa.cfm

ShawshankRetention · 2019-10-31T18:07:48+00:00

Honestly, if what i remember of that age is correct, most debate are mostly about posturing and fighting your insecurities by affirming stupid shit like it is true.

There may be clusters of outcast more open to debate, but in the schoolyard anarchy, the only way is to gain status by yourself in any way you are good in to make others follow your trends.

XavierMalory · 2019-10-31T18:07:46+00:00

I’m going to agree with some of the other commentors that you’re likely pissing into the ocean in the hopes you’ll warm it up.

Having said that, I think you’ve answered a few of the key points, but it needs refinement.

Congress: Ask them why there aren’t more women in STEM, despite all the push with programs and funding to get them there. Answer: Most women aren’t interested in those fields, so they don’t pick them. They have this quirk that all humans have called, “personal preference.” Conclusion: There aren’t a majority of women interested in running for political office either. Certainly doesn’t mean women are oppressed from positions of power (Margaret Thatcher, anyone?).

Poor Media Representation: How? When have you seen any show in the last 20 years make fun of a woman the way men are stereotyped as being idiots (which you mentioned). What exactly do they mean by poor media representation?

Reproductive Rights: You’ve oversimplified it a bit, but one thing to point out is that women have every right to decide if an unborn child lives or dies (regardless of what the man wants), and if she keeps that child, the man has to pay (regardless of whether he wants to be involved in that child’s life or not). Ask them, “So tell me again what reproductive rights you DON’T have that men DO have?”

Otherwise not bad. Try to keep the hate out of your remarks though. That just lets them know that you’re frustrated. Always be calm and level-headed. Bonus points for infuriating them with your calm demeanor.

In the end, you’ve already won because at such a young age, you’re woke to the bullshit. Good for you!

MineDogger · 2019-10-31T21:01:21+00:00

I'm a 13 year old men's rights activist

We need to get this kid on a private man-powered submarine to europe so he can yell at world leaders about the sorry state of the sexual environment...

RapeMatters2 · 2019-10-31T19:26:25+00:00

Personally, on reproductive rights, I grab their argument and take it to its logical conclusion.

When they bring up reproductive rights, say something like "I agree - and I firmly believe consent to sex is not consent to parenthood."

"But right now, only women have this right. Men do not - I firmly believe men should also have the right not to be parents if they don't want to be, because consent to sex is not consent to parenthood. Men should be able to opt out of legal parenthood, much like women can opt out of both biological and legal parenthood."

PrimeWolf88 · 2019-10-31T18:42:13+00:00

Women are not "paid" less than men. They "earn" less than men. They work less hours, with less valuable qualifications, with more holidays, longer holidays, and flexible working for childcare also harms their promotional chances.

The gender wage gap is also calculated for industries, without taking into account the job title of people or hours worked by them. Nurses, cleaners and receptionists - all more likely to be women. Doctors, surgeons, managers and consultants - all more likely to be men.

MRA-automatron-2kb · 2019-10-31T20:10:16+00:00

An easy one about the WAGE GAP to make their feminist brains implode is to say:

"But if women are paid less, why don't companies only hire women?"

I'm so glad that at 13 you are braver and smarter than most men.

You wrote you are from a different country.

Are you in a Scandinavian country?

fictional_nation · 2019-11-01T00:11:15+00:00

Same but I'm 11

CatOfGrey · 2019-10-31T19:19:06+00:00

My favorite is that workplace deaths and workplace injuries are over 90% male.

Another good one is: "So you are unhappy that there are few women in STEM careers? Do you think we should give higher salaries and affirmative action to men who want to be teachers? Over 80% of elementary school teachers are female."

Another one regarding school teachers: "Do you think that having most elementary school teachers as female teaches young girls that caring for children is 'women's work'?"

jonnytechno · 2019-11-01T02:39:57+00:00

Try and remain calm because the minute you lose your temper they'll use that against you and claim moral superiority, one thing they are probably going to do is attack you personally or try and mock you or your points, this is where you point out to them that this behaviour only servers to illustrate their inability to debate you on facts

You already seem organised and well versed on current facts and your asset will be adapting as they probably will flip from subject to subject as you win any point or argument

Also, if they choose to rant let it go, let them rant, your silence will make them overconfident and quietly sit back dissecting the flaws in what they say so you can retort with cutting accuracy

Good luck brother

InterwebSurferDude · 2019-11-01T02:41:31+00:00

Ok thanks from what I know great points also A+ for having actual source. Also I’m 13 too so thanks I thought I was wayyy too young to be getting in to MRA.

Evildl17 · 2019-10-31T18:42:58+00:00

I think its a noble goal, but best advice I can give is relax and worry about being an advocate later. There are more important things in growing up than advocacy. Especially in group advocacy where you run the risk of seeing yourself as a victim or shade how you view gender dynamics. (I mean, you aren't going to have the nerve to do anything with anyone with false rape accusations swirling around in your head...) Just take your time. Have fun growing up. Focus more on the here and now.

2019-10-31T22:08:10+00:00

My personal perspective is that the whole men's vs women's rights initiative is the wrong approach. All it does is breed misandry and misogyny being nothing but hate.

Yes rights issues exist that are specific to a given gender however I feel the focus is best placed upon human rights and the rights of children which by their nature must be applied without prejudice including gender.

Ensuring our laws gender neutral is a good starting point.

Some examples

Female genital mutilation laws and all that they represent and protect should be rebranded as simply human genital mutilation laws. If we can not extend protections to children equally regardless of gender what hope do we have achieving it with adults?

Mandatory conscription into military for the purpose of wartime effort. This has been one of the most damaging elements to men historically in terms of perceived worth or in this instance a sense of disposability held by societies. Countries such as Norway, Sweden and Israel have made conscription gender neutral. Don't underestimate the impact of this change, feminists who represent the most toxic element of their initiative can take comfort that equality has been afforded and women during the next wartime effort can die in equal numbers to men.

Don't lose sight of the fact that gender equality and neutrality has always been the end game.

Sewblon · 2019-10-31T23:52:36+00:00

As for poor media representation, you should check out "The media and male identity." by McNamara. The media frequently depicts women as superior to men in basic humanity. As for reproductive rights, I actually do think that early term abortion should be legal. But, once the fetus has the ability to experience pain, then it has some sort of moral status. So its hard to argue that ending its life is a valid right.

ZombieP0ny · 2019-11-01T05:44:34+00:00

Leave abortions out of your arguments. Reproductive Rights is more than just this strawman of "I'm 9 months pregnant, yeet that shit out of me.". It also includes access to contraceptives (not everything works for everyone) and sex ed (knowing about safer sex and how to use a condom and other contraceptives.). Focus instead on male rape victims, especially statutory rape to point out that men can be and are victims too. And it's even more brushed under the rug and ignored than it is with female victims.

1LegendaryWombat · 2019-11-01T07:07:50+00:00

go get a degree in political science and ban man-spreading.

don't encourage that, people are already going nuts and calling the ok sign a hate symbol, for some reason things are headed straight for loopyland territory.

But otherwise, yeah, they're decent points. If you like you can also include some history of feminism where they committed terrorist acts, but they never, ever, tell anyone about that.

fictional_nation · 2019-11-01T10:54:44+00:00

So, wat now

DS2wasbetterJK · 2019-11-01T10:57:02+00:00

I'm 13 too and I was looking into the same thing

DS2wasbetterJK · 2019-11-01T11:01:19+00:00

My school makes STEM events (for young engineers) that only girls are allowed to attend when a the girls that go don't care, boys get in trouble all the time in my school for doing nothing, it's not fair

insane_playzYT · 2019-11-02T03:59:11+00:00

The same thing happens at my school. It is a bunch of leftists who can't take facts for an answer. And those are the teachers...

vsqueaky · 2019-11-02T15:03:52+00:00

wow, you are hilarious, i kind of don't believe a 13 yo wrote this. it's cool that you're so tuned in at a young age. the justice system fails us over and over again because we're men. this is kind of a random coming from me, but i would have wanted to hear this at 13, because no one told me: fuck the bitches at your school. don't pay attention to them, or worse, end of dating one of them. they are repeating everything and anything they hear because it gives them a little power trip and it's all they can get because they aren't using their brains. maybe there are some mellow girls and guys, but most of them are troglodyte material for life. you already can see that oppression obviously comes from both sides. fuck em. now is the perfect time to get into great music and some books. "the catcher in the rye" and "franny and zooey" by salinger especially. you're a very precocious type and need the intellectual rigor of an equal if you want to continue on your path. at 13, it's gonna be books haha. some great bands to get into: the fall, sonic youth, wu tang clan. now son, rise!

theyvefoundusmarty · 2019-11-02T22:54:09+00:00

You could try just being glad that you’re a dude and none of this stuff is your problem

The_Best_01 · 2019-11-10T11:59:43+00:00

I agree with some people here that say you're too young. I definitely wasn't into political shit when I was your age. But we need more like you smart, cool kids to fight this insanity that's everywhere.

Also, one of the most common things they do when you bring up men's issues like suicide, violence, and legal discrimination, etc, is to victim-blame men, so try making the same argument about black people, and violence and poverty, etc and see what happens.

Good luck and stay awesome!

Electroverted · 2019-10-31T21:34:35+00:00

You're young.

Those feminists are young.

Just take it easy, ok?

TopcodeOriginal1 · 2019-10-31T19:51:55+00:00

Don’t mind me just commenting so I can find this thread later

iainmf · 2019-10-31T21:49:39+00:00

Get your hands on the book “how to have impossible conversations”

One of the important points in the book is that it is much more effective to get people to think about how they know something rather than to simply give them new information. In fact, giving people new information often just causes people to become defensive and ends up reinforcing their beliefs.

DIES-_-IRAE · 2019-10-31T22:12:44+00:00

"I just want the same rights that you have."

cayden_13 · 2019-10-31T22:53:15+00:00

Nice me too

EgalitarianGirl777 · 2019-11-01T01:29:00+00:00

I think the majority of your points are valid. The only one that they could definitely argue on is the part about abortion and reproductive rights. It’s true that they could order a female condom online, but it’s only 79% effective, so 21 out of 100 people can get pregnant and that’s a lot. I know that there’s plenty of other contraceptives, but they can get expensive, have side-effects that are too much for some (bloodclots, stroke, depression, suicidal thoughts, death, etc.) and aren’t 100% effective. There also is the fact that some people get raped and end up pregnant that way, so even being abstinent isn’t 100% effective. I know that not every pregnancy is due to rape, but still pregnancy happens even with the best preventative measures. I think that it’s wrong for people to use abortion as birth control (for example: getting one every month or so instead of being safe when possible), but getting pregnant due to pure ignorance as you honestly weren’t taught properly in school or by your parents, getting raped, having a medical condition that can harm you, the baby or both, an accidental screwup like forgetting to take your birth control one day, etc. are valid reasons to get one. I luckily have never been pregnant and never plan to be, but I can still imagine how horrifying it would be for me if it happened and I am in no way mentally capable of being pregnant. I know everyone has their own view on it, but I literally can only see being pregnant as having a parasite like the one from the movie Alien. I can’t handle the thought of anything growing and being inside me and feeding off me like that.

Also, what another commentor said, you definitely can and should bring up that women have more reproductive rights than men as they can choose to be mothers or not, while the men can’t. I think that unless a man is never told about the pregnancy and that it’s their child, then men should have a time limit where they decide whether or not they want to give up their parental rights. If they decide to give up their rights, then they can’t be forced to pay child support and should not be called a deadbeat dad nor any other names. If they choose to not relinquish their rights, then they should take care of the child. I also think that each parent should automatically get joint custody where either one parent has the child for one week and the other other has them the next, or one parent has them for 3 and a half days and the other has them the next 3 and a half days. No child support involved, but each contribute equally to school, food, clothing, etc. The only thing that could make it not joint is if one of the parents is unfit or something. I just hate that I personally know many men that have “joint” custody and yet only see their kids every other weekend and pay for all their expenses.

Klminor · 2019-11-01T02:52:33+00:00

Look up the factual feminist! She makes some great points!

StarGazerErect · 2019-11-01T02:57:59+00:00

Thats all fun and games but dont burn any bridges.

username2136 · 2019-11-01T14:32:43+00:00

Here are some add-ons:

Gender pay gap - The gender pay gap is based off of misleading statistics as the actual percentage is based off of the total earnings between men and women without considering any variables. Even if it is true, no business would ever hire a man if they knew they could get away with paying women less. If you have ever been in an economics or accounting class, you would know why that is.

Congress - You could either run yourself (since AOC was a bartender), or actually vote for the women who run. It really shouldn't matter in the long run because what they plan on doing when they get the position should matter more that what is between their legs.

poor representation - I really don't understand why they have a problem with this considering women had starring roles ever since the creation of movies (Dorothy from the wizard of oz for example). Even if they weren't in lead roles then, that certainly isn't the case now as we have many action movies that have female protagonists (they also seem to convieniently forget about chick flicks) and video games ever since the NES days (Metroid, Tomb Raider, Resident Evil etc.) so why are they harping on about this oh so pressing "social injustice"? And no, men don't like female protagonists solely on the basis of her being female. There are plenty of TV shows and movies that are guilty of the "mary sue" trope which was made in response to females being commonly written as side characters in the older movies and they went from too nerfed to too overpowered that they would have next to no character development as it would seem giving a woman any weaknesses to overcome is hateful.

Other than that those are good arguments.

I also heavily recommend looking up the youtuber Dr. Shaym. He compiled a list of 22 feminist arguments and refutes them with logic and evidence and makes his sources obvious. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guuPHxg4XXc&list=PLp5FqLQluAe4v9B4NT1IFW9Wdx82OkgDF&index=5&t=952s

Maridias · 2019-11-01T14:39:28+00:00

i get you’re just a kid but oh my god is the reproductive rights point so retarded

2019-11-01T15:40:59+00:00

For a good list of sexism against men visit : realsexism.com. If some of the links don't work there use wayback machine

Blutarg · 2019-11-01T16:38:49+00:00

Good for you!

There is more and more evidence that women are just as likely to win elections as men, just like there is more and more evidence that there is no "pay gap." For instance, look at this:

https://www.theroot.com/no-more-great-white-hopes-study-reports-women-and-me-1835810573

Blutarg · 2019-11-01T16:40:09+00:00

PS don't do this:

pATriaRCHy

That's childish.

dontpet · 2019-11-01T19:30:25+00:00

How about, whether men are 10 percent or 50 percent of domestic violence victims, they still get excluded formally and informally from almost all support services.

Or,

It is still legal to cut off the end of a baby boys dick, and very common. Because "culture" or, it looks better that way.

Figure out how many tips of baby boys dicks will get cut off this year in your country and include that in the statement.

[deleted] · 2019-11-01T20:10:27+00:00

You’re too young for this. Enjoy life, 13 is far too young to get involved in these types of conversations. That’s literally like throwing kids into republican and Democratic political parties that young when they don’t even know how the world is yet.

Be friends with people based on the way you carry yourself in terms of dressing, your basic values. Don’t get into politics or feminism vs men’s rights until you’re at least 17.

MRRamming · 2019-11-01T20:29:35+00:00

If a feminist has to think for more than three seconds their logic circuits will fry 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊

TerseTiddys · 2019-11-01T21:24:43+00:00

Gender wage gap: your response is not good, because even women who are fresh out of college (they have no kids so they're working the same number of hours as men) get paid less than their male counterparts. Most feminists already know this and will laugh in your face.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/guid/094CDB98-75AD-11E9-AF83-3EDAD499F327

Poor media representation: You have to look at who is making the decisions. It's still true that most of the people making decisions about what media content gets broadcast, are men. Yes there are women television executives, but there are more men mailing decisions about what we watch and highschool feminists are going to bring that up to you.

Reproductive rights: a feminist will tell you, "if you don't want an abortion, don't get one," and just keep walking. So, no.

OhdogeG · 2019-11-02T02:19:26+00:00

I agree with you, most people in my middle school presumably don’t harass men for unfair reasons, and try to get away with it. But, I really don’t know what people think because no one in my school has made some sexist remark about men.

ScrougeMcTraxa · 2019-11-02T07:22:38+00:00

Weird flex on the abortion thing since there's nothing wrong with them but OK

foreyy · 2019-11-02T14:32:05+00:00

Wage gap is real, female models, pornstars etc get paid like 10x more than males soo

bhatch245 · 2019-11-10T07:20:56+00:00

Say this about being paid less:

Yes, women do earn less, as a whole. But that isn’t due to sexism or discrimination, the wage gap was calculated by taking all the money that men earn in the Us, and all the money that women earn, and dividing them. They didn’t take ANYTHING else into account, such as work hours, qualifications, or even what jobs they have. If you didn’t know, women take up the majority of the top 5 lowest-paying fields, and men make up the majority of 4 of the top 5 highest paying fields. You don’t think that has a little something to do with the gap? Or maybe it’s due to the fact that on average, men work more hours than women. I really wish people would stop believing in this myth, it’s been debunked time after time. Also, if employers were actually able to get away with paying women less, do you not think they would then hire only women? Do you really believe they’re more worried about paying the male employees more than the female ones than they are about their own profits? Because that is honestly hilarious

2019-12-01T06:32:21+00:00

Hey that's cool, I try to speak up for male rights as well. Where are you from? What kind of feminists do you meet? I also have to argue with people about it

jonnyhaldane · 2019-10-31T18:48:10+00:00

Reproductive rights: Seriously, yall just want an abortion?

I know this is is a difficult issue, but IMO feminists are right about abortions. Birth control is not fool-proof and accidents happen. People do not always have control over their urges and some will inevitably have unprotected sex. There is no reason to be against abortions, perhaps unless you are religious (in which case you should probably be against condoms too).

OCDTEACHER · 2019-10-31T21:57:19+00:00

Just live your life and don't waste your time with this bullshit.

Just focus on what makes you happy and keep relaxed around girls/guys. Maybe you'll find your one in high school, maybe you'll find your one in adulthood, but relax and take your time in regards to dating. Really highlighting the relax part :P

Just enjoy life. Get off Mens' Rights, get off so on and so forth, and just enjoy your future years and start thinking of what you want to be as a career.

Hepu · 2019-10-31T23:37:04+00:00

I would wait until you grow a bit older and stop being a MRA. Meanwhile I suggest you check out the much less toxic /r/menslib for advice.

Jet-Streem · 2019-10-31T18:37:52+00:00

Just do yourself a massive favor and don't engage them. Pro tip: if you don't say anything, people think you agree with them and then no drama.

OutOfSpite20 · 2019-10-31T17:29:36+00:00

You have a lot of growing up to do.

ModsHateTruth · 2019-11-01T06:02:15+00:00

Here are some better, shorter responses that are better for 'put downs' as it were:

Wage Gap: Fake. If it was real then companies would only hire women and pay them less to increase profits.

Poor Media Representation: Law & Order SVU and shut the fuck up.

Reproductive Rights:We part ways here. It is a certainty that no mind exists previous to 23 weeks. Therefore abortion must be legal before that point. In addition, even if you refuse to accept facts, abortion must still be legal and here's why: One person doesn't have the Right to stay alive utilizing another person's body against their will regardless of how that situation came about.

We can't achieve equality with women by stripping rights from them, but instead, we must do so by adding rights to men. Legal Paternal Surrender, "Male Abortion", for instance.

z770i1 · 2019-11-01T13:48:36+00:00

I want to see what actually happens afterwards. Not all feminists are bad. Some feminists understand men's issues. I think my sister is a good feminist, not fully sure if she is a feminist.

mavesticks · 2019-11-01T00:13:16+00:00

I think you are going about this the wrong way. First of all, don’t confuse sexist women with feminists. Feminism often gets a bad reputation, but men’s rights issues are feminist issues as well — not “rebuttals” to them.

I want to reiterate that last line — men’s issues should not be used to silence women’s issues. When the wage gap is brought up, you are not rebutting it with: -the homelessness gap -the workplace death gap -the child custody gap -the suicide gap These are all the results of sexism. Women get paid less (and men die at work more often) BECAUSE OF GENDER INEQUALITY. The fact that women technically can work construction on high steel (just as an example), there are very real societal reasons why they don’t. This is what feminism tries to address.

I don’t really know what you mean by the media representation point, so maybe you could clarify?

Lastly, there is no abortion debate. There is only an attack on a woman’s body autonomy. “Life begins at conception” is what’s called a red herring. It’s a distraction and is completely irrelevant.

Here’s an example. If a child and mother are in a car accident and the child needs a blood transfusion from the mother, the mother has the right to refuse. The mother has the right to let her child (or husband or neighbour or anyone else for that matter) die in front of her just because she doesn’t want to have a needle stuck in her arm. No one has the right to harvest blood from a body that does not consent to donating it. This is not a “clump of cells” this is a healthy living child.

To take this a step further, if the mother dies in the accident the doctor is still not allowed to take her blood or any organ because the doctor does not have her consent. A donor card would be required because consent is not assumed. Putting an unborn child’s life ahead of a woman’s choice is not only giving the fetus more rights than a person, it’s also giving a woman fewer rights than a corps.

An abortion is not about “killing the child” — another red herring. It is about removing the child from the woman’s body.

vxd386 · 2019-10-31T20:44:29+00:00

I was a MRA too in the past.

Then I grew up.

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