MGTOWs aren't necessarily bitter men that have given up on women

zezozio · 2013-12-30T07:04:48+00:00

From the main site: The four levels of MGTOW

Level 1: Situational awareness

This level includes men who are aware of the realities that face them in society, and yet deem the risks acceptable to have a go at playing the game.

Level 2: Rejection of long-term relationships

The MGTOW rejects all form of long-term personal relationships with women, including but not limited to marriage, cohabitation of any sort which might be classified as common-law marriage, picking up for a single mother's children, or any action which might be used in court to turn him into her legal indentured servant.

Level 3: Rejection of short-term relationships

The MGTOW rejects all form of personal relationships with women, including dating, one-night stands, friendships, etc. Any contact with unfamiliar women is kept strictly professional and at a minimum.

Level 4: Economic disengagement

The MGTOW refuses to produce more than is strictly necessary for his individual survival. He will limit actions that are punished by taxation without jeopardising his way of life and acceptable standard of living.

PrisonerOfLife · 2013-12-30T03:01:07+00:00

MGTOW is heavily rooted in economics, when one boils down its core decision making processes - particularly cost/benefit and risk/reward analysis. Naturally, these are approximate calculations, but the point is that one decision's payoff may be inherently more beneficial to one man versus another depending on the value derived and the resources conferred for said value. For example, someone who has to approach 25 women to get a single lay has a higher value derived per hour invested than someone who has to approach 200 women to get a lay. And if you think that PUA guarantees more of the former and less of the latter, you would be surprised to find a high amount of variance in the success men employing the same type of techniques actually enjoy with women. Thus, out of a natural gradient in costs for the same benefit, certain people will choose to opt out - and this applies to many logical decisions, not just in dealing with women.

Theophagist · 2013-12-30T09:51:14+00:00

And if they are I believe that too is an acceptable way to be. When we see a woman who had been mistreated in all her relationships and she decides to stay single we pity her. Why would we revile men who have been hurt so many times they'd like to avoid being hurt again?

cagethepepper · 2013-12-30T04:31:41+00:00

Thank you! Finally someone addresses this.

IIHotelYorba · 2013-12-30T10:01:24+00:00

I think anyone that subscribes to /r/TheRedPill qualifies for MGTOW level 1

Agreed. I'd also argue that level 2 is flat out a good investment for guys new to dating. Men have a tendency to jump on the first girl who'll take them, and then ride it until the wheels come off. In fact, I'd go so far as to say the majority of problems men have with women come from this, being in scarcity, the subsequent rationalizations that a girl is drastically better than she is, and the hardcore investment in her before you know a god damn thing about your actual options in the dating world.

bgny · 2013-12-30T18:58:52+00:00

For me MGTOW means choosing freedom. Freedom to live MY life exactly how I like, without giving fucks about how everyone else thinks I should be living it. Freedom to spend my time and resources how I please. I am not MGTOW by necessity, but by choice. My choice is not to marry and have children. I could marry, I could have kids, I could run the rat race, I could give up myself and my freedom a hundred different ways. I CHOOSE not too. If other men are happy with their marriages and children that's cool, more power to you. It's just not for me. How about we live and let live. If you will die a happy man with no regrets, that's great, and so will I. I encourage every man to look within himself and find what it is that makes him the most content and satisfied with his life. For me that means gaining as much freedom as I can wring out of this blasted society constantly trying to throw chains around my neck. MGTOW is not failure at life, it is the choice to live life exactly how one wishes no matter what. And especially no matter what anyone else says about it.

Terry_Bruce_Dick · 2013-12-30T04:10:16+00:00

That said, I do not claim to represent MGTOW.

Probably the best indicator of actual MGTOWitude.

Glorious_Master · 2013-12-30T15:09:46+00:00

Its kind of like comparing opportunity costs at the end of a year.

was ____$ worth it or did I just spin my wheels and get scammed?

and ofc the emotional/cognitive investment that you put in other people.

Its really up to you to decide but you should find the level headed time to make that analysis.

MockingDead · 2013-12-30T02:27:25+00:00

I am aiming to level 4, and "mostly" level 3 (I do go out and get ass).

torn_paper_heart · 2013-12-30T07:00:21+00:00

Wow, I've been a solid level 2 for years, and didn't even know it. I had never even heard of MTGOW (or RedPill) until this year :oP

2013-12-30T04:06:16+00:00

Although I love this subreddit, I don't consider myself under any of these labels we throw around. Not trying to generalize as all the people here are different, but for me, I'm just using the resources of the manosphere's blogs to get the same balanced & well adjusted personality that people with stable upbringings got. That being said, while I don't believe in 'MGTOW,' focusing on my mission and not women all the time has made me a lot happier and balanced in my life. Not trying at all with dating and women and saying you're above them does not make you above them.

*clarity.

2014-03-07T06:14:50+00:00

MGTOW for LIFE. Fuck the PUA nonsense that's infecting this sub-reddit tbh..

draketton · 2013-12-30T05:01:56+00:00

MGTOW is a temporary adjustment to a certain set of problems 21st century society suffers from, not a lifelong plan.

whiskey_bearfist · 2013-12-30T03:43:03+00:00

for too many supposed "mgtow's" its just a cool new club that justifies their lack of success or effort

sure, you can "refuse to put up with women's bullshit", but unless you have girls lining up trying to get with you, there isn't much difference from that and sitting at home, playing video games while covered in cheeto dust as your adoring pillow girlfriend looks on.

mgtow is too broad to have any useful context. 30 years ago it would have just been "tradtional men"

Party_Liquor · 2013-12-30T14:09:59+00:00

I'm not bothering to read all these comments to find out if someone else has said this: The concept of MGTOW taken to it's logical conclusion and practiced by all men would be chaos and the end of civilization. There are very good reasons why we conform to society. Don't think you're a man just because you don't play by everyone else's rules.

NoMoreNicksLeft · 2013-12-30T08:14:21+00:00

I certainly would never put social expectations or some ideal of political correctness above my own needs.

However, there are needs that have to sit above my own. I am a father of two young children, and their needs will always be higher than mine or any other (until they have their own children, then it will be my grandchildren whose needs are at the top).

To some extent, my wife's needs are also above mine, if only because my children need their mother.

This particular attitude you speak of seems strange and self-destructive.

RedSunBlue · 2013-12-30T10:12:07+00:00

...who fucking cares?

EDIT: The whole idea of flying a banner over your head that says "I do what I want" is incredibly juvenile.

Clauderoughly · 2013-12-30T02:29:23+00:00

It is saying that, as a man I will not surrender my will to the social expectations of women and society, because both have become hostile against masculinity.

Waaahhhh ! Society treats men like shit ! Like it has been doing for the last ... oh....the last 10,000 years ! Society is mean to me ! Whaaaaah !

In that sense MGTOW is a lot like atheism.

I am sensing that the subscribers of both, are self righteous, fedora wearing neckbeards.

One can argue that gynocentrism is and always has been the main religion that rules mankind.

So maybe if you throw a big enough tantrum society will start giving a shit about men ? Yeah that isn't going to happen.

You do not have to ignore women. If you want you can be a pick up artist who gets more a** than a toilet seat, you can avoid relationships with women or you can marry your high school sweetheart and have three kids. You can do whatever you want.

And you can act like a preachy, whiny douche while doing it !

The slave days of traditional gender roles are over.

Oh....Where have I heard that before ? Oh wait ! Whiny, self righteous feminists ! Just because you suck at your role as a male and leader doesn't mean the rest of us do.

http://i.imgur.com/ruh7Z.gif

Your forefathers would be utterly disgusted with you.

tr8 · 2013-12-30T11:52:06+00:00

MGTOW is not about WHAT YOU DO, it is about WHY YOU DO IT.

And why are you doing it? My guess: testosterone deficiency. Maybe you sucked on one PET bottle too many. Either way, all that nonsense about mgtow levels (life is an rpg!!!!!) doesn't even sound healthy.

RejectionEquality · 2013-12-30T03:35:28+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	MGTOWs aren't necessarily bitter men that have given up on women
Author	RejectionEquality
Upvotes	114
Comments	96
Date	December 30, 2013 1:59 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1tzdp6/mgtows_arent_necessarily_bitter_men_that_have/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/mgtows-arent-necessarily-bitter-men-that-have.9381 https://theredarchive.com/post/9381

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