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Feminists like me are under attack, and it’s not men who are the perpetrators, but women. The naked truth about women in science.

TR6Cool

November 21, 2015
332 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationopinion/12007112/The-Naked-Don-The-truth-about-women-inscience.html
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Title Feminists like me are under attack, and it’s not men who are the perpetrators, but women. The naked truth about women in science.
Author

TR6Cool

Upvotes 332
Comments 48
Date November 21, 2015 4:36 PM UTC
(10 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3tpgne/feminists_like_me_are_under_attack_and_its_not/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/feminists-like-me-are-under-attack-and-its-not-men.966647
https://theredarchive.com/post/966647
Red Pill terms in post
feminismfeminist
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Comments

[–]pnw_diver 62 points63 points64 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

She certainly seemed fluffy, I guess all it takes to get published in the Telegraph these days is to claim to be a "feminist" and then to proceed with narcissistic navel-gazing and claims of victimhood.

I mean, Christ, she even managed to get a nude image of herself inserted into an article on women in science, somehow.

[–]theAnalepticAlzabo 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Okay, now i gotta click...

[–]pnw_diver 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's pretty amazing what lengths she needed to go to in order to justify that.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not worth it.

[–]mwobuddy 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The butterface is real.

[–]victorymonk 71 points72 points73 points 10 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

I could find exactly one publication of hers: "The evolution of markets in early modern Europe, 1350-1800: A study of wheat prices" and it's from 2011.

At the same time she had profiles in Telegraph, Guardian, CapX, etc. she organizes women's week in Economics then women's month in economics, etc. May be, just may be instead of criticizing "male approach" to economics and its "male dominance" in every single newspaper, she could do the f--cking research and publish papers. That would make economics less "male dominated", wouldn't it? But I guess writing scientific papers is harder than writing complains in the Guardian.

[–][deleted] 38 points39 points40 points 10 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

This is part of the problem. I have huge respect for many women who do achieve great things, many without even shouting about it. But so many jump on a feminist band wagon claiming discrimination in their field without achieving very much themselves when given a platform and ample opportunity.

[–]RedditorJemi 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, it would seem she's being given an incentive to do so, doesn't it?

[–]zaiguy 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is true. For instance, there are a lot more women in science then there are me, so I would say that science is anti-me.

Now, where's my royalty check from the Guardian?

[–]Lurker_IV 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I have huge respect for many women who do achieve great things, many without even shouting about it.

I ran into this woman on TED talks recently. She fits that description multiplied a couple times. What do you think of her? TED: Dame Stephanie Shirley is the most successful tech entrepreneur you never heard of.

Serious question.

[–]victorymonk 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly. Go to any University's Economics Department, open their faculty list: you'll see plenty of women, all just doing their work, and writing scientific papers. You'd probably never hear about any of them unless you are an economist. And there are few who are not representative of economists but do all the complaining.

[+]Ovendice -15 points-14 points-13 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I have huge respect for many women who do achieve great things

Oh please, you mean all the extremely overrated do nothings like this nobody?

[–]theAnalepticAlzabo 13 points14 points15 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

No, there actually are women who achieve great things on their own merit, even in STEM. They are just rare.

[–]HappyHound 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Might I suggest any book by Farag Moussa?

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No, he meant many women who do achieve great things.

[–]tm1087 14 points15 points16 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Just for comparison, political scientist Eleanor Ostrom won the Nobel Prize in Economics. She doesn't write in these newspapers; she is writing about interesting game theory applications.

[–]Ovendice -4 points-3 points-2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's what you see over and over and over and over with women in any field or in business, anywhere. A whoooole lot of hot air, photos and produce and contribute nothing. And/or are just complete frauds. Feminism failed. Decades ago.

[–]one_brown_jedi 22 points23 points24 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Women’s contribution to prosperity creation, including their work within the home and community, outside of the markets that so interest economists, has largely been ignored.

Oh, that reminds me, there is this argument made by feminist economists that housewives should be paid by their husbands. However, most of these "papers" are silent on whether a husband can fire his wife if she doesn't do the work or whether such a husband will be required to pay alimony.

Victoria Bateman seems to be one of the proponents.

Economics has, for example, been slow to recognise the important role of society in a successful economy, the ongoing contribution of women’s unpaid reproductive, domestic and caring work, and the fact that real human characteristics and emotions are just as important for understanding the economy as the more robotic “rational”, cool and calculating types of behaviour most commonly incorporated into economists’ models.

[–]Ovendice 34 points35 points36 points 10 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

"Science, engineering and maths are all areas that would benefit from a greater input from women."

How?

[–]baskandpurr[🍰] 26 points27 points28 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Thats what always gets me about this. We see all this about women in STEM being a goal but nothing about why that's a good thing. What are women going to do that men don't? There are women in STEM now, they do pretty much the same as the men around them. How is having more or less of one gender going to make any difference to the science? Would a team of women reach Mars sooner? Would they discover room temperature semi-conductivity? Create a functional quantum computer? What exactly is science missing by not having 50% women involved?

[–]stockholm_sadness 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

The idea is that people who have different perspectives on things working together could collectively come up with a solution that might not have been achieved by a group of people with similar perspectives or a single person. That's really not that radical of a notion or terribly hard to comprehend.

[–]baskandpurr[🍰] 19 points20 points21 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Sure, thats a great and fine idea but what is the basis for assuming that the female perspective on carbon nannotubes is different to the male perspective? I would imagine that you could get value in that sense by talking to people from different disciplines. A person trying to create carbon nannotubes might talk to an architect for example.

[–]xlcpo 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ironically and predictably, it's about putting women in "pretty" roles - evangelist, leadership, etc. - not in the "dirty work" roles.

To some extent it not totally off base. You might not want all male team to design the UI or set the features for your next smartphone. They could miss "woman friendly" feature or make buttons too big for women and fuck over your chances with half your potential customers. But ultimately these a very small portion of STEM jobs.

For the most part it not about putting them in the 99% of STEM careers - the invisible "contributor" roles. Its about being able to say "a woman put us on Mars" ; "a woman solved global warming" ; "a woman create the next big OS" ; regardless of how many women actually contributed to it.

And business are more than willing to go along with it since larger workforce means they can pay lower wages. It's why the industry funding is focused on getting girls to stay until they're employable.

[–]MonkeyCB -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So some racist redneck, or someone with an ancient world history degree, or even some high school drop out could add some insight into this that others couldn't. Yet I don't see companies in Silicon Valley or Wall Street falling over themselves to get those people in.

[–]riskable 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Do not underestimate the dangers of a monoculture. It is bad to have an entire category of study dominated by one group; whether it be men, women, Americans, Europeans, Asians, or illegal aliens.

Yes, it's probably true that if, from this day forward, no woman ever studied economics again it probably wouldn't make any difference but it's mostly because economics is 50% bullshit. Literally: A number of very important economics studies have failed basic replication testing. Their results could not be replicated in 50% of papers that were tested! Oops!

...but that's just economics. Having a diverse group can lead to breakthroughs and, more importantly, resiliency in any field. How much trust would you put into research into men's health if all the researchers were women?

Unique perspectives are important!

[–]doomsought 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

What you are talking about isn't monoculture; what you are talking about is called bias. Scientists have developed many ways, simple to elaborate, to eliminate bias.

It does not matter if the scientist is a man or a woman. If changing the sex of the researcher changes the outcome, then the methodology is flawed and the results should be thrown out.

[–]riskable 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What you are taking about--bias--is a symptom of a monoculture.

I don't mean to degrade your comment; it's absolutely true that bias is a problem. I just want to point out that bias from an individual is normal and expected (especially if it's unconscious) but institutional bias is something that we can do something about; by increasing diversity.

Note that when I say, "diversity" I'm referring to, "diversity of thought." The simplest way to obtain diversity in thought within a group is to bring in people with a wide variety of backgrounds and the sublease way to do that is to select from a wide variety of origins and sexes.

[–]xNOM 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Because vagina, LOL

[–]ether_reddit 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

If my vagina is supposed to be helping me in my STEM career I must be doing it wrong. All this time I thought it was just something to sit on.

[–]WaitingToBeBanned 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It has other uses, which you should consider.

[–]ether_reddit 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It has other uses

In a professional capacity? surely you jest.

[–]xNOM 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Apparently it drives out all of the "toxic masculinity" in STEM. You know, that peer review and criticism thing. Also apparently the oversupply of penises pointed everywhere causes women to "lose confidence."

[–]SilencingNarrative 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

While it may be true, it's certainly debatable. What's less debatable is that women would benefit from working hard at STEM. That would amount to asking some women to make the first move, however, and we can't have that.

[–]McFeely_Smackup 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Ok, the effort to justify putting the nude painting in the article was rather shallow and pedantic.

Economics...blah..blah...and here's a nude painting of me!

[–]mwobuddy 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wait, so you don't understand that vagina is a socioeconomic tool, used to harvest resources from men, and that it is heavily guarded by the feminists who do not want prostitution to be legal, as that would drive the "price of pussy" to rock bottom?

[–]lazydonovan 10 points11 points12 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Male here. Coming from a different perspective, I was never interested in the arts, just science and technology. I could never understand why I needed to take literature or any other art or language. My parents would tell me that it builds character, and it does. There are a lot of things in life that you don't want to do or don't see the value in, but you have to do them anyhow. It's better to learn to deal with that at a young age.

I predict this little girl, if allowed to continue on her course, will be ignorant and vapid. She'll be unable to hold down a job because she will have to do things she doesn't like to or see the need for. I pity the boys that date or cohabitate with her, unless she's a good lay, in which case I still pity them.

I'm now in my 40s and taking an english class at college and I actually appreciate it now. My writing skills have definitely improved even though I haven't really wanted to to it. It has been a character building experience as well, but I don't know that I could quantify it here.

[–]bertreapot 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

On the plus side, the author is not blaming the dearth of women in Economics on discrimination, like all U.S. feminists are blaming men for women not wanting to enter STEM fields. She is pointing out an example where a young girl is just not interested, and trying to encourage women to be more interested in the sciences. That is the most we can hope for.

[–]splodgenessabounds 13 points14 points15 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The writer, Cristina Odone, was angry that her daughter Izzy, who is inclined to the arts, must also study (science, technology, engineering and maths). Why, Odone asked, should Izzy be wasting her time in the lab or pondering quadratic equations when she could instead be immersed in Shakespeare, or the Plantagenets?

Precisely so. Why should her daughter have to slog through STEM subjects when she can take an arts "degree", do fuck-all for 3 years apart from screwing and going to feminist student meetings and then have her mother (Cristina Odone) coach her in how to get a job she is unqualified for (because quotas) while bitching about the gender "pay gap"?

Seems to me Ms Bateman has not only missed this point but is also trying to shame Odone and her daughter and force her daughter into doing something against her wish (Cristina Odone's wish, that is). I therefore conclude Ms Bateman is attempting to oppress Cristina Odone and may even be raping her daughter...

(ye gods, it's funny watching feminists trying to trump each other in a game of Victim)

[–]ether_reddit 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Why should her daughter have to slog through STEM subjects

The age of 12 is a bit early to stop taking some subjects.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points14 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Women are so fucking important women women and women women and women. Equality.

[–]TheDude41 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"Under attack?"

Damseling is sexist horseshit.

https://galesmind.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/female-ec-the-damsel-in-distress.jpg

[–]fullhalf 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

read through it half way then skipped around because the first half had absolutely no point. what is this article even about? the woman rambles on but doesnt state a point.

[–]modern_rabbit 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Does this even remotely have anything to do with MRM?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Another day, another over-privileged whiny cunt complaining about how unfair women have it. Maybe if you contributed more than whinging editorials to society, young girls and women would have a positive role model they would emulate.

[–]IronJohnMRA 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

"Feminists like me are under attack..."

Good! It's about fucking time you felt some heat for all the shit you have pulled, and all the damage you have caused this world. You may expect a lot more of these attacks. Your future will be much harder, not easier.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You forgot to archive the article. You're rewarding them with advertising money and sending the message that publishing these kinds of articles is a good idea.

[–]AlexReynard 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Personally, I'm fine with this. I'd rather have someone urging women and girls to get off their asses and study "male dominated" fields, rather than feminists nagging colleges to grease the path for them.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It was manipulators like Gloria Steinem that started the debacle of modern feminism and it's going to be mostly brave free thinking women like the Honey Badgers that are leading the charge to take it down.

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