Danish men seeking right to "judicial abortions"

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For those of you who consider this unfair to women, consider the amount of birth control methods women have. The only options that men have are to use a condom, withdraw before ejaculation or to get a vasectomy. Women have many more options to opt out of parenthood:

Before or during intercourse women can do the following:

Use a female condom
Withdraw before ejaculation
Get a tubectomy
Use the pill
Use an anti-conception ring
Use an anti-conception sponge
Use a diaphragm
Use anti-conception plasters
Get an injection
Get an implant
Get an IUD
Use spermicide
Use a fertility awareness calendar

After conception, women can do the following

Use a morning-after pill
Use abortion pills
Use an IUD
Have a clinical abortion
Induce a miscarriage

After giving birth, women can do the following:

Give the child up for adoption
Leave the child at a safe haven

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I hadn't heard of it at all, until it was posted here, but I will say that if we ARE getting somewhere I really wouldn't want to read how the law used to be, currently the paternity laws are outrageous, I read them a month or two back.

Child gets born, mom is asked to provide as much information about the father as possible so the state can track him down, if she doesn't want to that's fine, the dad will never know he has a kid unless she tells him.

If she does and they track him down, congratulations you're now the father unless you go through court, if it goes to court the mother can consent to a paternity test, if she doesn't it's a she said vs he said case, if she does consent the test will determine the outcome, if she doesn't consent the man cannot require one to be taken, because you know, you wouldn't want a kid to go through the trauma of getting a blood test without the mothers consent.

9 months and 29 days ago you were divorced from a women who just gave birth congratulations you're the father, unless of course you can get her to agree to a paternity test, doesn't matter if the grounds for your divorce* were her cheating on you all the time, if you are the only one she has been married to within the past 10 months, you're the father.

* In Denmark you can't just get a divorce just because you don't want to be married anymore, you need a good reason or a 6 month separtion first.

[–]LilanKahn 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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Most western countries are struggling with severe birth rate declines. Europe and Russia aren't that much worse off than Japan. That gap probably would be much smaller if they didn't include statistics of immigrants, who typically have far higher birth rates than 'native' Europeans.

And yes, I understand this issue is somewhat different in the US, which has a much broader history with immigration than Europe does. In Europe, it's only really took place in the last few decades, at a pace noone was really prepared for, which is why it's such a hot topic.

Also the American immigration was mainly from European countries, wheras European immigration is mainly from Asian and North-African countries. Completely different cultural backgrounds, which make things... somewhat tougher.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNfn-ReNUak

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Here in America we have a class system that is less understanding and forgiving to all people. Money in my country dictates the level of education and health care you will enjoy in your lifetime. It will dictate if you breed or not. It will dictate your overall quality of life. It's the reason double the women breed vs the male population.

Denmark is a tiny country with 5.5 million people. The city I grew up and live in has a little over 7 million. These are today's numbers but look at 1960 population. Your Denmark had 4.5 million population then. A growth of one million people your government can pay for and absorb over 50 years. My countries population in 1960 was 180 million now 320 million. That's a lot of children to pay for and We as a country can't afford to pay for others mistakes.

Children suffering from poverty is bad but blame the mothers that put them in that situation. It's not the tax payers fault so why are they finically responsable for someone else choice. If I had to pay less taxes for other people's children I might be able to afford my own child.

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I agree it's in everyone's best interest but The responsibility lies with the parents not the state. The state has the power to make it easier or harder to breed via tax benefits to parents. It has the power to provide a safety net when people fall down and need help. But the state isn't in the rasing children buisniess. Nor should it.

There are more people on welfare and government assistance in my country than your entire population doubled. From my American point of view it's easier to see the big picture cause the numbers are so large. We don't just see one or two homeless and a couple starving children. There are millions in your face everyday. Shit is bad and it sucks. In my country the same mistake gets repeated over and over till we are swimming in people unable to take care of themselves. It has to stop. One generation of suffering children is better than ten generations. The cycle of poverty isnt broken with government handouts. It's broken when the behavior stops. You curb people's behavior with negative consequences. It may sound cold and heartless but it's the best overall for everyone.

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The male consents to the risk of having a child the moment he has sex with a female. The fact that due to biology and that the female hosts the fetus thereby allowing the mother additional choices does not mean the man is oppressed. There are real differences between the sexes and mra say they want equal opportunity they say that they recognise sex differences effect outcomes and this is one such case. Why are so many mras trying to legislate away biology in favor not of equality of opportunity but rather equality of outcome?

The born child has their own rights seperate from the mother. Either the father supports them or the state in any case where the mother is unable to. Or do you ignore the rights of the child just to get to punish the mother? Does the man have more right to his money than his child created through his choices have to eat to live to not starve?

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It's hard to pay for a child on a single income

It's hard to pay for a large home or a luxury car on a single income too. Should assistance be provided for everyone who tries to do this but falls short?

which is why both parents need to take responsibility for their actions

I completely agree. The responsibility for the action of "I choose not to have a child" is to live childfree, and the responsibility for the action of "I choose to have a child all by myself, on my own, as a single woman" is to work hard and earn the money to pay for her choice by herself.

It's not just the woman who got pregnant, it takes two people to have a kid.

Are you using the "having sex is consent to parenthood" argument then? By that logic, abortion must be banned, because the only time you can make a choice is when you choose to have sex.

I suspect you believe in "having sex is consent to parenthood, unless you're male"... the current standard of blatant inequality under the law. Just like "you have to register for selective service, unless you're female".

I guarantee you if there was a single "unless you're this gender" law where women got the short end of the stick instead of men, there would be widespread feminist campaigns demanding the end of this blatant gender discrimination.

But if it's only men that face it? Eh just man up and deal with it, nobody cares about this problem.

Abortions can be dangerous

Far less dangerous than childbirth.

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[–]garglemesh42 17 points18 points19 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Giving men the option to not be responsible for a child for the next 18 years when they don't want to is male superiority, because women already have ways to not be responsible for a child for the next 18 years. Sure, makes perfect sense to me.

You say going through an abortion isn't exactly easy. You think deciding you don't want to financially support a child that's half yours is going to be an easy one for men?

Nobody here has said deciding to get an abortion or not is easy. Deciding whether or not you want to be a father isn't an easy decision, either.

This isn't about letting men decide to leave their 5 year old son or daughter with no financial repercussions.

What this is really about is that women can trap men into providing them with money for next 18 years.

Abortion, birth control, and safe haven laws are there so that women don't get trapped into having children that they don't want. So what happens when birth control fails and a woman doesn't want a kid? She can get an abortion, or not. That's entirely her decision, as it should be. Forcing the father to pay for the consequences of her decision, however, is NOT right.

Try to consider this from the perspective of a man who doesn't want children that is married to a woman that does. Let's say she intentionally "forgets" her birth control for a while, gets pregnant, and has the child. Let's even say he's been using condoms, but she's sabotaged those, too. The man has already made his intentions clear, he doesn't want kids. A few months pass, and surprise, she's pregnant. He wants her to abort, because he's already told her a million times that he doesn't want kids. Whether or not to abort is her decision. She says "fuck you, I'm having the kid no matter what you want - I've always wanted kids." So she has the kid. He divorces her. She moves a thousand miles away and he never gets to see the kid he never wanted to have, but he has to pay for it for 18 years anyway.

That seems pretty unfair to me, doesn't it to you? He pays for a kid he never gets to see and never wanted, she gets free money for 18 years, money which doesn't have to be spent on the child, and is often far in excess of what you'd need to keep the kid bathed, fed, and in clothes.

Right now, women have options when birth control fails. They can abort, however painful and difficult that decision may be.

Men have to pay for whatever choices women may make, whether that's mourning for the child he never got to have or paying for one he didn't want for 18 years.

This isn't about "male superiority". It never was. It is about giving men the same rights women have.

TRY seeing the issue from a man's point of view for once, would you?

[+]PseudoRapist -6 points-5 points-4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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Then youll never attain financial abortion. This is not about the mother, its about the child. The child has not made any choices and has the right to be supported to a certain standard. If the mother cannot anf the father will not then the state must step in and subsidize the child according to its needs. There is no other way around it. Its that or we keep making men pay for it themselves which isnt fair for the men but a must be when there exists a child that the father had a hand in creating via his own choices his own free will and needs to be supported. Or should children starve to death for a fathers rights?

Either the father must support the child or the state? Which do yoi choose? Because reality demands one or the other. I choose state this allows maximum freedom while still giving the child their right to a certain standard of living while they are unable to support themselves.

Or do libertarians like you think its every child for themselves? That a mans rights to his money exceeds a childs rights to live, even when that child is his own he chose to have sex and thus consented to the risk of creating the child therefore its his responsability unless the state takes it on.

[–]eXeHijaKer 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Or how about we make a law that punishes you for intentionally hurting other people.. Like, bringing a child into a life that is objectively violating human rights. Be that a couple who don't have the money/time/will to actually support the kid, or a mother who decides to have a child alone because the father doesn't want the kid, but still isn't able to support the child herself..

We could... Imprison these people who are purposefully harming other people. And then take the kids and put them in the system.. Suddenly all the State's child support payments can go to the system instead, and suddenly people will consider having a child a bit more.

It's far from a fair system, but it's way more fair than what we have now. Because no one deserves to be punished for someone else's stupid decisions.

[–]roharareddit -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

This is not about the mother, its about the child.

Currently the money forcefully extracted from the father in the form of "child support" first goes to the state, (which takes it's cut it always does) then to the mother who has absolutely no accountability as to how the money is spent. In this equation the child is often a very distant third and often times neglected. Stats on children coming from single mother homes demonstrate this.

The child has not made any choices and has the right to be supported to a certain standard.

Agreed!

If the mother cannot

Then she can either have an abortion or if she chooses to bring the child to term then she can give it up for adoption to a family that is able and willing and no one will call her a bad person for it.

and the father will not

But what if he himself cannot. What if he is unnenmployed or if he is mentaly handycaped or if he himself is a child. You are aware that we force underage boys to pay child support to full grown women who have sexually exploited them aren't you?

then the state must step in and subsidize the child according to its needs. There is no other way around it.

Yes there is. Either the mother can choose to have an abortion or she can give her child up for adoption to a loving family which will have a superior outcome for the child at no expense to the tax payer.

Its that or we keep making men pay for it themselves which isnt fair for the men but a must be when there exists a child that the father had a hand in creating via his own choices his own free will and needs to be supported.

Own choices? His own free will? Are you talking about the choice to have sex? Women who get pregnant don't have sex? You think that having sex is consent to parenthood? You sound very much like a pro lifer to me.

Or should children starve to death for a fathers rights?

Starve to death? Seriously?

Listen, I totally support a woman's ability to get an abortion and support reproductive rights for women AND men. But, whenever hear the phrase "deadbeat dad" and think of all of the men (50,000 or so at any given time in the U.S.) incarcerated because they lost their job or who for whatever reason were not able to pay an amount of money determined by someone else for someone else's "choice" and think about someone having a tube stuck up inside them to suck out something with it's own heartbeat or leaving an infant on a firehouse doorstep or even a trash can only to walk away without having to pay any consequences I get a little.........salty.

This business of holding children hostage in order to fund a woman's "choice" is not only hypocritical, it is destroying the lives of children who's fathers were not given an even playing field when it comes to assuming parenthood. If men and women were given parity of reproductive rights then "GASP" women would actually have to stand toe to toe and eye to eye with the men whom they want to become the fathers of their children and negotiate terms of parenthood equitably. This would have nothing but positive outcomes for children as only people who have chosen their mates properly and respect the other persons decisions regarding parenthood would reproduce. It would result in families that are not dependent on the government or anyone else but themselves and children growing up with both parents.

[–]PseudoRapist 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I dont believe in child support payments from fathers for a variety of reasons including some you listed there including the prevalence of mothers spending the childs funds on themselves and the fact that its more complex than need be. I support state payed CS to streamline and standardise CS.

However I dont support forcing mothers to abort or adopt out or else stay with the father.

Also yes sex is consent to risk of disease and conception. Men and women are equal under the law here and whenever they have sex they both consent to the risk of pregnancy. Both men and women can legally obtain an abortion and the biological fact that men cannot get pregnant and so cannot use an abortion doesnt equal legal inequality. Thus if a man or woman has sex they consent to the risk of conception pregnancy amd yes childbirth if the pregnant one chooses not to have an invasive medical procedure ie abortion. The fact that currently, in 100 percent of cases, the involves the female being pregnant does not change the fact they are legally equal before the law and thus when the female is getting pregnant the fathers consent to any possible children occurs at sex same as any time the male gets pregnant the females consent to any possible children occurs the moment she impregnates the male, legally speaking, and possibly in the future with advances in technology, in biological reality.

Current abortion rights are equal between men and women. There are other beter reasons to reject the failed model of father payed CS.

Another model is needed. I dont have all the answers but it must put the children first then the rights of the father and mother. Men and women should be equal to each other but not to children. Children are a protected class and have the right to a high standardised level of living until able to support themselves. These rights are independent of the mother or fathers ability to provide them.

Most of the time a childs welfare and emotional needs are best met by being with the biological parents or one of said parents. This also happens to be the cheapest way to look after children as CPS is an expensive failure that puts children at more risk many times.

Thus I propose basic income for every child combined with a minimum wage paid to the parent/s for the job of raising a citizen of the state. This would come with welfare checks and the childs basic income portion being subject to some form of oversight to make sure its being spent on the child. The parent may spend their income on themselves but all the childs income must be spent on the child.

[–]Zoidbergluver -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]roharareddit 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Women have at least twelve kinds of discrete birth control which are innexpensive, often paid for by the government if a woman does not have insurance and can be catered to their health needs. Men have only condoms, abstinance and visectomy. Condoms and abstinince are not discrete and not anywhere near as effective as the methods widely available to women. Vasectomy, while destrete is a sterilization procedure and not firtility control.

In this country abortion is LEGAL! Any woman wanting an abortion in this country can get it given she makes the decision to do so within a time frame that can be anywhere from 4 to 6 months depending on which state you are in. In many states it can be as late as 8 months. That's plenty of time to make a choice-that is for those who have that choice.

Furthermore, a woman who is not married and actually brings a pregnancy to term she can give the baby up for adoption.

A "financial abortion" for men would be no different than the option women have of giving up their children for adoption.

Since 1972 every live birth in the U.S. has been the result of a unilateral decision by the mother and there is no getting around this.

[+]Zoidbergluver -6 points-5 points-4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

To get an abortion in the state of Texas (where I live). Step 1: go to a doctor to confirm you are pregnant and tell you exactly how far along you are. This costs money. Step 2: go to one of the very few clinics that offer an abortion. The closest one to me is in Dallas, a 5-6 hour drive from where I live Step 3: go through the picket lines of protesters telling you you're a horrible person. (Ps. There are also fake clinics that tell you you're too far along to get an abortion and do other things to keep you from getting one, and they are perfectly legal so hopefully you go to a real one) Step 4: at the doctors visit, have an ultrasound where you see your fetus and hear the heartbeat and have a doctor tell you all the gory details Step 5: get a hotel in Dallas since you have to wait 24 hours from the appointment to the actual appointment. Miss work during this time Step 6: go back through the picket lines the next day, get the abortion Step 7: days of profuse bleeding and cramping, stay near the clinic for another day or two just in case something goes wrong Step 8: drive the 6 hours back home, after missing at least 5 days of work and paying ~$800 for the doctors visits and abortions. Hope you don't need therapy.

So who pays for all those doctors visits? What about lost income from missing work? What about the psychological toll if she doesn't believe in abortion?

And don't even get me started on birth control. You have to make a doctors visit to have an exam, except gynecologist don't make much money off of a patient that only wants an exam once a year, they make money off of pregnant women. So it's takes a long time to find a doctor who can see you and my bc personally costs around $35 a month. So if a condom is roughly $1 it is cheaper to just use a condom when you have sex, as well as it being as easy to obtain as walking into almost any store and buying them.

[–]roharareddit 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ahh, the great state of Texas, which prides itself of being the hardest on "deadbeat dads." Read this: http://ishmael16807.org/013.html

Can you imagine a mother who lost her job being treated this way? Can you think of a single time when a woman was thrown in jail for choosing not do be a mother by having an abortion, however difficult getting one you make it out to be? Sure, doctors visits are expensive and so can taking days off for travel but having to go to jail for failure to pay for someone else's choice because you cannot afford it is something I think you would complain bitterly about.

You talk about birth control as being some sort of burden. I simply do not believe that there is some long waiting list to see a doctor to get a $35 a month prescription for b.c. pills. Even if there were I and almost every man I know would gleefully stand in line for as long as you say it takes for you to get reliable, discrete fertility control.

You talk about condoms as if they are they are a bullet proof way for a man to avoid an unintended pregnancy. They are not. In fact couples who use condoms as the only form of birth control have an 18% chance of an unwanted pregnancy in one year. Intuitively, the same goes for sexually active men who rely on condoms for pregnancy prevention assuming that they are having sex with women who are not using birth control. Which is what I assume when I use a condom when having sex regardless of how much my sex partners assure me that they are "taking care of business."

Take a look at the numbers: http://www.malecontraceptive.org/#!condoms/cc04

But if you insist that they are effective then women have their own condoms that are just as inexpensive. If that would save you such a massive amount of money ($35 a month...seriously?) then why don't you use the female condom? I am dying to hear your excuse.

[+]tiltedrea -73 points-72 points-71 points 10 years ago (45 children) | Copy Link

Yes let's give men easy way out of fatherhood!!! Would be so amazing to have even more fatherless children around!!! Then let's bitch about fatherlessness in society because of all those evil feminazis. Them feminazis are killing families. We want rights! We wanna abandon our children for equality!!!

We should be able to say: "You pregnant? Fuck you I'm out hahahahahhaa!!! You can't bring yourself to get an abortion because hormones? Because you don't want to go through the operation? Because you are afraid of depression? Because you're afraid of regretting it? Because you are not comfortable about the stigma attached to it? Because you love that fetus to death? Because you are already attached to the fetus? LOLLLLZ poor pregnant lady I have rights!!! I need the right to tell you to fuck off and deal with it. BECAUSE EQUALITY!".

[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

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[+]tiltedrea -43 points-42 points-41 points 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

And yes, equality does work that way - there are consequences for the rights that women demand.

They already face every single fucking consequence of the pregnancy. Every single one of them. They are the ones who carry the baby inside. They face the health risks, sometimes lethal. Their bodies go through all those changes. Their bodies get affected/altered. Pregnancy can be physiologically, emotionally and mentally crippling for them. Their hormones get fucked up. They have to take a break from their careers/lives. They face the financial impact more than us. They already face those consequences. A woman has so many fucking reasons not to go through with a pregnancy. They can fucking die! After all these consequences they face, they get a fucking right to choose. And even this fucking choice comes with its own consequences. Abortion does have emotional/mental/physiological consequences.

And the result of their action is a fetus not coming to life. And somehow it's equality for a man to say fuck off? Just like that? Where is the consequence? Oh wait , there isn't any. That shit doesn't sound like equality to me. We can't have equality during pregnancy. Because we are not equal biologically. The only reasonable solution to this problem is male birth control pills and more contraception options for men. Fatherhood is becoming a fucking joke slowly. A lot of fatherless kids are fatherless due to their fathers abandoning them despite the mother wanting to raise the baby together. Some of them will do every fucking thing to avoid even paying child support. I don't give a fuck about them. I sure don't want to make their lives easier. I care about the men who can't get justice in family courts. Or who are forced to agree to mother's wishes during mediation due to being poor, uninformed or pure gender stereotypes. Those are the fathers I care about. I don't want a single dime of my taxes spent due to these men abandoning their kids. They can go fuck themselves.

We don't need equality in terms of financial abortion because we can't fucking have it. We need equality in contraception and we need equality in family courts and mediation.

[–]FromTheFarSouth[S] 30 points31 points32 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[+]tiltedrea -22 points-21 points-20 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]FromTheFarSouth[S] 20 points21 points22 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

In most legislations, women can't be charged with rape. And "judicial abortion" would also benefit those men who are tricked into getting a woman pregnant. Currently those men are also forced to pay child support.

Did the woman ask him to impregnate her and sign an agreement relieving him of any financial obligations? He’s still liable if she changes her mind. Was he underage and legally a victim of statutory rape? Makes no difference. (One such case, in Kansas in 1993, involved a 12-year-old boy molested by a baby sitter.) Did the woman have her way with him when he had passed out from drinking and brag to friends that she had saved herself a trip to the sperm bank? Tough luck, said Alabama courts. Did she retrieve his semen from the condom she had asked him to wear during oral sex and inseminate herself with a syringe? Yes, it’s a true story, and in 1997 the Louisiana Court of Appeals told the man to pay up, saying that a male who has any sexual contact with a woman — even oral sex with a condom — should assume that a pregnancy may ensue.

Source: A man's right to choose by Cathy Young.

[+]tiltedrea -8 points-7 points-6 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]glottony 10 points11 points12 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]FromTheFarSouth[S] 25 points26 points27 points 10 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

[–]chocoboat 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]tiltedrea -26 points-25 points-24 points 10 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[–]FromTheFarSouth[S] 18 points19 points20 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+]tiltedrea -12 points-11 points-10 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]FromTheFarSouth[S] 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]chocoboat 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points22 points 10 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

[+]tiltedrea -13 points-12 points-11 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Oh let me help you. I'm a moderate liberal, atheist, non-feminist, heterosexual, cis-gendered, able-bodied, immigrant, brown man living in US. I hope with my identity and ideology information you can read my posts with a much better lens.

How on earth is it equality when we get to say fuck off and women have to go through abortion? It baffles me. How on earth is it equal when the abortion results in a fetus not coming to life and a financial abortion results in an abandoned child? Women already face every single fucking consequence and adverse effect of pregnancy. What is this about women not shouldering responsibility? They do pay child support when men have custody but it's rare due to fucked up family courts and gender stereotypes. That inequality needs fixing.

Most parents who abandon their kids after they are born are fathers already. Despite the current laws. It's fucking sad, but it's fucking true. Just because I'm a man doesn't mean I will ignore this.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points13 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh let me help you. I'm a moderate liberal, atheist, non-feminist, heterosexual, cis-gendered, able-bodied, immigrant, brown man living in US. I hope with my identity and ideology information you can read my posts with a much better lens.

/slowclap

How on earth is it equality when we get to say fuck off and women have to go through abortion?

How is it equality when sex means consent to parenthood for men, and not for women? And please tell me you have a reason other than "because uterus".

Women already face every single fucking consequence and adverse effect of pregnancy.

Plenty of women use abortion as an alternative to birth control, not because the pregnancy endangers their lives.

Do you advocate limiting the accessibility of abortions only to those times when it's medically necessary due to pregnancy complications? If not, then why is it that you don't think that men should have similar options when it comes to a lifestyle decision? and please give me something other than "women are the ones that get pregnant" or "think of the children".

[–]chocoboat 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

How on earth is it equality when we get to say fuck off and women have to go through abortion?

OK, you do have a bit of a point here. The law cannot achieve perfect equal treatment because of biological reasons like that. But the legal system has the duty to find the most fair option that's possible to choice. It must always choose the lesser of two evils.

What do you think is more unfair? Being forced into legal parenthood against your will and being made to give up 1/4 of your income or more for 18 years? Or choosing to undergo a common medical procedure that carries almost no risk?

Of course it's worse to be forced into parenthood. It's not even close. If women could ever be forced into parenthood against their will, there would be feminist outrage. How dare one gender have the power to forced the other gender into a situation like that?

To make up for the fact that a woman has to undergo the abortion, I would propose that if a man files for legal parental surrender, he would have to pay 100% of the costs of the abortion (including travel costs). Not only does it help to balance things out, but it ensures that women will always have the option to abort even if they are very poor.

But you can't seriously argue that forcing someone into the legal responsibilities of parenthood for 18 years is the most fair option we can come up with here.

[–]speedisavirus -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ralph_Charante 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]tiltedrea -3 points-2 points-1 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Ralph_Charante 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]garglemesh42 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[+]tiltedrea -6 points-5 points-4 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]garglemesh42 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]tiltedrea -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]garglemesh42 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]tiltedrea -5 points-4 points-3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Azrael-sama 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]chocoboat 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And believe me, if we had the right to financial abortion, so many men would regret it for the rest of their lives. Because they would have lost all their rights to the kid.

So we should outlaw adoption, because some biological parents have regrets once in a while? Nonsense. The law should not take away your freedom to do what you feel is best for you in life because "what if you regret your choice later?"

Financial abortion is not equality, it's superiority.

How is it superiority for men to STILL HAVE FEWER CHOICES than women? Men would have the right to avoid being forced into parenthood against their will, but still would lack the choice to become a single parent on their own like woman have (of course it's biologically impossible to do anything about this issue). In what world does having LESS of a choice give you superiority over someone who has more of a choice?

[–]roharareddit 15 points16 points17 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[+]tiltedrea -18 points-17 points-16 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]roharareddit 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]chocoboat 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Choosing to not become a parent isn't child abandonment. Do you think abortion is child abandonment?

Suppose there's a couple that is infertile. The man really really wants to adopt and become a parent, and the woman absolutely does not want to. He insists and begins the process of adopting a child, she is not OK with this and leaves him. He becomes a single parent on his own, by choice.

Would you say that she has abandoned a child? Would you say that she should have to pay him child support for 18 years?

I would genuinely like you to answer those questions please. If you think a man is a child abandoner who should be forced to pay, wouldn't this woman be in the same situation? She should have to pay up, right?

I suspect you thought "it would be horrible and completely unfair to make her pay for something she didn't choose and never wanted". Welcome to my point of view.

[–]KeithStone30rack -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]occupythekitchen 11 points12 points13 points 10 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[+]tiltedrea -9 points-8 points-7 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I fully agree about the equality issue after the kid is born. That's what men's rights is for me. Family courts, mediation, gender stereotypes, men being afraid of suing for custody, men not being able to afford these things etc. are all problems we need to fix. Even the fucking mediation period is not equal. Men are afraid of a lot of things and a lot of them agree to mother's demands instead of facing the hell that the family court is.

Its the father saying I cant financially have a kid now or with you so go find someone better to raise your child if that is your choice.

If only abortion was as easy as a man telling the pregnant woman to fuck off. It isn't. Plus there is a huge difference between a fetus not coming to life and a kid being emotionally and financially abandoned by the father. Financial abortion is not equality, it's male superiority.

[–]occupythekitchen 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]GameTheorist 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]glottony 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]chocoboat 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	Danish men seeking right to "judicial abortions"
Author	FromTheFarSouth
Upvotes	544
Comments	182
Date	October 18, 2015 8:46 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3p9ppv/danish_men_seeking_right_to_judicial_abortions/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/danish-men-seeking-right-to-judicial-abortions.969165 https://theredarchive.com/post/969165

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