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Actual "women only" job posting at my company

schoond

September 16, 2015
219 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://imgur.com/ehbWDYs
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Post Information
Title Actual "women only" job posting at my company
Author

schoond

Upvotes 219
Comments 68
Date September 16, 2015 1:05 AM UTC
(10 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3l44yd/actual_women_only_job_posting_at_my_company/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/actual-women-only-job-posting-at-my-company.971267
https://theredarchive.com/post/971267

Comments

[–]billmcneal 59 points60 points61 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

So instead of just letting women decide to not do the dangerous jobs like they already do, they actively prevent men from taking it, simply so they can hire a woman to make it "fair?" Or am I missing something?

[–]schoond[S] 32 points33 points34 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

You got it. Some pretty flawed logic. We've had both men and women working the position in the past, it's a role requiring technical/engineering skills so gender shouldn't play into it at all.

[–]billmcneal 19 points20 points21 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Well then. That's just dandy.

Part of my low level, much less technical retail job is being hiring coordinator for my store. I use that position to make sure to give all candidates equal opportunity... by judging them on objective things like availability, previous experience, and communication skills. I never pay attention to things like sex, gender, or race.

And, what do you know, my store is plenty diverse and generally reflective of the community it's located in. Almost as if ignoring those things in favor of hiring the most qualified people is the best way to do it. I should add that since I started screening candidates, my store also has improved to having one of the lowest turnover rates in the company. Like, top 20 out of nearly 1000. (Wanted to brag just a little. I'm proud of my hiring practices.)

[–]schoond[S] 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Every reason to brag, that's a great accomplishment!

[–]ChameleonDreams 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I wish all managers had this thought process. Then we wouldn't need affirmative action in the first place.

[–]PM_ME_UR_PLANTS 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

This is STEM right now, except the jobs are nerdy instead of dangerous. I happen to like nerdy things, and have spent my whole education and career surrounded by programs that say they are women only, or only advertise to women. There are still some unisex scholarships here and there, but I've passed that point.

[–]DaneWhitman 23 points24 points25 points 10 years ago (38 children) | Copy Link

What country was this job being offered in?

If it was in the U.S., you could contact the EEOC.

[–]schoond[S] 15 points16 points17 points 10 years ago (37 children) | Copy Link

Canada

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points15 points 10 years ago (27 children) | Copy Link

http://www.naalc.org/migrant/english/pdf/mgcanemd_en.pdf

[–]schoond[S] 14 points15 points16 points 10 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link

Well that's pretty straightforward. But as bad as it might sound, I don't really want to stick my neck out at work by making a fuss about it. The posting is over anyway. I mostly just wanted to vent:)

[–]Rufert 54 points55 points56 points 10 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

This is the exact line of thinking that keeps everybody shit on. Nobody willing to stick their neck out when they need to.

[–]NoGardE 23 points24 points25 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Tough to stick your neck out to risk firing in this century's job market.

[–]ThePedanticCynic 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, but if you do and you get fired you can sue so hard you may actually own the company.

The US has a number of whistleblower laws, Canada probably has something similar, so as long as you don't actually whistleblow against anyone important you're protected.

[–]heretodiscuss 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I totally agree with the premise of your comment and I agree with what you say, however in practice, I would assume they would fire him and list the official reason as something else.

[–]ThePedanticCynic -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Your assumption is that feminists are capable of rational thought. Anyone who'd fire him over this would do so under intense emotion, and would not play the long game. He'd wake up one day and be fired.

You give feminists too much credit. They're mentally and emotionally unstable psychopaths.

[–]heretodiscuss 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If feminists couldn't play the long game I don't think the movement would still be around for close to a century. I think you're underestimating "your enemy".

E.g. See Hilary Clinton...they can clearly play the long game/climb to positions of power and manipulate the situation to stay there (see email scandal).

But I would certainly hope they list the reason for firing him being that he blew the whistle, it would work out very well for OP.

[–]schoond[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

It's true. But still easier said than done...

[–]SigmundFloyd76 11 points12 points13 points 10 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Newfoundlander here. My uncle was working at Bull Arm until recently. He's a stone mason. So he had some unbelievable tales of absurdly unqualified woman working on his crew.

He says that a major component of his job was carrying these heavy bags of cement; 60 lbs or something. He said that it was the grueling part of the job. So a few of the woman on the crew physically couldn't lift these bags, and there was a steady supply of them. Everybody pitched in, everybody took their turn except these girls.

So what happens is the other guys end up having to pick up the slack and eventually got pissed off that only half of the crew had to do the shitty part yet everyone is paid to the same scale.

My uncle eventually went to his direct supervisor and mentioned that moral was diminishing fast and explained the situation. The supervisor's reply was clear and well intentioned; he said shut the fuck up about it, while he agreed completely and sympathized, he said it would be a guaranteed lay-off if he pushed the issue with the higher-ups.

Nobody wants to risk such a lucrative gig, but there you go. The job requires hard work; that's why it pays so well. If you can't do the job, well....

[–]houseaddict 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Maybe the men could just all mysteriously have a bad back one day and be unable to shift the bags. See what happens.

[–]SigmundFloyd76 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm sure it's no fun to be the person on the job who is the shits. I've been that person before; it's no fun.

See the pay is insane. The oil platform is so valuable that the company was offering quadruple time as incentive to complete it early and the hourly wages are shockingly high anyway; nobody wants to rock the boat. My uncle made my annual salary in about a month.

[–]houseaddict 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Well, I would probably put up with it as well... I would definitely be shaming those women on a daily basis though.

[–]schoond[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wow, that's ridiculous! I wish people would just be hired based on their capacity to do a job...not everyone can do everything!

At least in my case anyone qualified should be capable of the job, as it's mostly technical/site office work, not manual labour.

[–]geniice -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

He says that a major component of his job was carrying these heavy bags of cement; 60 lbs or something. He said that it was the grueling part of the job. So a few of the woman on the crew physically couldn't lift these bags, and there was a steady supply of them. Everybody pitched in, everybody took their turn except these girls.

Does your country not have access to the internal combustion engine (or the metric system for that matter)? Having to repeatedly lift such amounts suggests poor planning.

[–]SigmundFloyd76 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

At some point, after all the tower cranes, mobile scissor lift's, forkllifts, etc have moved the material onto the actual work site; somebody physically has to move it. We're talking 60lbs here. Well within what a human can do.

Also this is a concrete, gravity based off-shore oil platform. There is immense planning and engineering. and they are constantly learning from themselves.

Somebody physically has to empty the bag into the mixer because the crane can no longer access the area; I'm guessing.

[–]geniice -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

At some point, after all the tower cranes, mobile scissor lift's, forkllifts, etc have moved the material onto the actual work site; somebody physically has to move it. We're talking 60lbs here. Well within what a human can do.

You are actually pretty close to the upper limit of what humans can safely lift on a regular basis (there is a reason why 25kg bags are in the industry standard in the UK). If you are doing it a lot you are going to have a lot of bad backs down the line.

Somebody physically has to empty the bag into the mixer because the crane can no longer access the area; I'm guessing.

Thing is that isn't consistent with "major component of his job was carrying these heavy bags of cement" by the time moving the bags around becomes a major a component you really should be looking for alturnative options.

[–]kkjdroid 9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You can report things anonymously.

[–]xNOM 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Or at least name the company here.

[–]iehava 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

If they fired you for raising a legitimate concern, you don't want to work for that company anyway. And if they did that, you could sue them for wrongful termination too.

[–]ThePedanticCynic 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Depends on the state. At-Will-Employment states? Like Florida? You're fucked.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They can fire you because the sky is blue that day. Proving wrongful termination is often not easy.

[–]jasonola -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I thought all states were?

[–]ThePedanticCynic 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Nope. Some cities are even required-union. That's like the opposite of at-will employment.

[–]abcIDontKnowTheRest 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

This is fairly common in Canada (and a big gripe of mine as well) and IIRC it is entirely legal IF they have an established equal opportunities policy. Though having the policy in place might not matter because it falls under the Employment Equity Act. (Wiki and CanLII)

Basically:

The Act states that "employment equity means more than treating persons the same way but also requires special measures and the accommodation of differences." [...] Employers are also required to institute positive policies for the hiring, training, retention, and promotion of members of the designated groups.

If you look through government postings especially it is very common to see postings targeted to the four groups (Women, people with disabilities, aboriginals and visible minorities).

[–]TheSourTruth 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm so tired of this shit. Just fucking tired of it

[–]abcIDontKnowTheRest 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yea I hear you. Don't get me wrong, I'm all about diversity, but the fact that employers are basically required to hired less suitable candidates so that people don't cry discrimation is absolute bullshit.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Its a systematic, forced transfer of wealth and power away from men. Its not about discrimination its about control. It will never end, and it will absolutely get much worse.

[–]schoond[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Interesting. I guess that describes us, there seems to be constant emphasis on the catchphrases "equal opportunity employer" and "opportunities/leadership for women"

Interestingly, a couple years ago a minimum percentage of women working on site was mandated in the provincial government agreement for a project were planning. Thought that was a bit ridiculous too!

[–]abcIDontKnowTheRest 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Yea, the government loves to have themselves diversity "quotas" in which they target opportunities based on those four groups that they do not have enough of at that time. And they like to push those onto their contractors.

It's ridiculous from a hiring perspective: I want the most qualified candidate regardless of race, gender, or ethnicity...I don't want to have to pick the best candidate out of a pool of lesser qualified candidates just because I "need" a woman or a native in my ranks...

[–]schoond[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It's ridiculous! Isn't the whole point of equal opportunity employment that a candidate is supposed to be picked based only upon their qualifications and suitability for the job!?

[–]abcIDontKnowTheRest 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The concept of equality in this case means to ensure that everyone has an equal outcome, even if the means to achieving it are different.

I think that this picture sums it up nicely.

[–]schoond[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That does nicely differentiate the two terms. But it's not like women need a leg up to get this job...there's no reason a woman couldn't get this job based off qualifications alone.

[–]Doulich 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

/r/legaladvice, try to find the Canadian legal advice subreddit. IIRC, Canadian companies ARE allowed to do this because its "creating equality" for a marginalised group.

[–]schoond[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh really - that would be ironic! I'll try to look that up after work

[–]ThePedanticCynic -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Women outnumber men.

I hate feminism so much for being organized enough to force this. We really need more structure to fight their psychotic behavior.

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 13 points14 points15 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It would be fun to declare that all jobs currently dominated by men must only hire women until it's 50/50, and failing that they must fire men until things are equal.

When society falls apart because women simply don't want to do these dangerous and dirty jobs we can use that to point out that forced equality is idiotic.

Of course then society has to collapse first.

So maybe not my best plan.

[–]schoond[S] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Hah, you had something good brewing there for a minute!

[–]jb_trp 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, at least it would help close the gender death-at-the-workplace gap.

[–]ulpisen 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

tfw diversity means only one group of people is allowed

[–]schoond[S] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

What's more ironic is that all our job postings also have a blurb in them about being "an equal opportunity employer"

[–]ThePedanticCynic 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Ah. That's where they get you.

It's an equal opportunity employer, not an equal opportunity career.

[–]schoond[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol!

[–]ThePigmanAgain 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Did they actually find a woman to do this job? If so, i am rather surprised. We all know women love to break the glass ceiling, the glass basement is another matter altogether.

[–]schoond[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't think they did, but I believe it got cancelled due to the current downturn so probably a moot point

[–]ThePedanticCynic 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If they did i'd be surprised if she lasted a month.

[–]del_preston 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

"open internet explorer" LOL. That being said, this sucks. Everyone needs jobs.

[–]ThePedanticCynic 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, but not everyone can do every job.

[–]victorymonk 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

OK, is it time for /r/legaladvice? I see these "women only" posts quite often here and the question always arises: is it legal? So, ladies and gentlemen, is it legal? When is it legal? (I hope never). If not it has to be challenged. Because it's offline activism that changes things.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]schoond[S] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not sure if that's the case in Canada. As I replied above, in another case we had a government mandate for a minimum percentage of women working on site.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]schoond[S] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't think it is in this case. At least, it hasn't been in the past.

[–]bsutansalt 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

What state/country is this in? If the US, it's in clear violation of established labor law.

edit: just saw the post saying this is in Canada.

[–]schoond[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah we're in Canada...we're a pretty big company, I doubt they would do it if it was illegal. IMO it should be illegal though.

[–]FFXIV_Machinist 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Two words: Gender quota. believe it or not- they exist.

they likely have been threatened by the government, or some other enforcement agency that they need to create more jobs for women.

I have personally been forced to hire a female developer in order to diversify my companies tech force, even tho its blatantly proven and known that there is an infinitesimal number of females actually in that career, and it is roughly 95% male.

[–]schoond[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wow, that is ridiculous. We did have a quota like that for another project, so maybe that's what is at play here. But it is frustrating that our society has come to this point.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm gonna need this company's stock ticker so I can short it.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

not only can women sell their bodies for a living, they are given advantages in the name of diversity

yet we live in a patriarchy, fuck that shit man

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

le epic trole. Should have mentioned divorce rape.

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