Readers of r/MensRights, why do/don't you consider yourself egalitarian?

Juan_Golt · 2015-04-28T20:16:57+00:00

When it comes to advocacy it is counterproductive to approach such a large issue in totality. I have specific and narrow goals. Policy changes that I want to see that align with MR Advocacy.

baskandpurr · 2015-04-28T21:35:59+00:00

Ideologically I consider myself in favour of equality, whatever that may be. But I think that aiming for the middle would never work in our society. The MRM fights an ingrained bias and it's a thankless task. But without clear opposition pulling in the opposite direction society will drift toward the comfortable status quo. The MRM also fights feminism where feminists seek to takes advantage of that bias.

I think its interesting that while the two are often portrayed as opposition, they broadly agree on some things. If you asked this sub does it support the universal right to abortion it would say, yes. If you asked do people support eliminating FGM, they would say yes. If you asked about gay or trans rights, yes.

I don't see gender politics as being polar with Egalitarian in the middle. I think each ideology has its own idea of what equality is and how you get there. Feminists want to dictate how the world should be and they don't have any intention stopping at equal. The MRM would like people to see the bias against men and the privileges given to women, legal reform of laws that work against men. Those laws are ignored by feminists who would rather invent fictional problems for women than address real problems for men.

Good question BTW.

chafedinksmut · 2015-04-28T21:08:23+00:00

There are some areas where I'm an egalitarian. Equal treatment before the Law, for example. There are other areas where I'm not an egalitarian; physical requirements for "Danger Jobs", for instance.

Men and women aren't equal, we're complimentary, and there's always going to be HUGE problems between the genders unless and until we have start having honest, fact based conversations and changes on these matters.

EvolvingRedneck · 2015-04-29T00:03:57+00:00

I think of myself as egalitarian. So why do I post in men's rights? Because I have seen what happens to those that speak logic and reason in feminist land (a boot to the head). I would think once myths are debunked (wage gap) and they are shown things are not that bad that feminists would be happy. Instead they go into fits of rage, use their brand of ad hominem' s, and insist things are horrible for women and demand change (special treatment).

Now I know not all feminists are like that. The RadFems only consist a minority. Yet, these RadFems are the most vocal, get the media coverage, and get those in power, the patriarchy (the irony kills me), to change/add new laws.

I have been following the HoneyBadger debacle from Calgary and I listened to the "harassment". As a white male, this only strengthens my reasoning on why I avoid integrating with women. If they say they are a feminist, I become very cautious but will still ask what kind of feminist.

yelirbear · 2015-04-28T19:32:15+00:00

I am egalitarian and support both men's and women's rights issues. Although I am more on the MRM side of the spectrum (because men's issues are not addressed as much as they should be) I think both feminist movement and MRM both suffer from bias I try to avoid.

remembz · 2015-04-28T21:15:46+00:00

I am egalitarian. I'm more on the MRM side mainly because I'm "straight-acting" gay-preferred bi. One always care more about those to whom one feels more connected.

iongantas · 2015-04-28T21:22:57+00:00

Well I don't post on the feminism subreddits because I'll be instabanned. But I believe in human rights for all. I don't consider myself an MRA, I consider myself an egalitarian: this is because both genders have different issues that need to be addressed and I lean more favorably towards the MRM, however, because only one gender's issue is allowed to be addressed in the current environment.

IIHotelYorba · 2015-04-29T05:32:39+00:00

I'm pretty sure that most people in the MRM consider themselves egalitarians. I personally believe in legal equality, meaning the same legal standards for all citizens. Pretty straightforward.

Just to be clear, I don't consider egalitarianism to be some kind of a mix of feminism and men's rights. The reason why is feminism is a distinct branch of philosophy with a very clear set of ideas about history and how the world works.

This is the reason I like the term Men's rights. Rights are laws. In several situations in the US and the rest of the developed world, under the law, there is simply one standard for men and one for women. Like I said, this what I am against.

I definitely don't subscribe to the feminist movement. Most of their aforementioned ideas are pure speculation, which for me is just about the nail in the coffin when judging which ideas have merit. Even worse is the majority is provably untrue. (For these reasons I don't conflate the terms "feminism" and "women's issues." Women's issues are real.)

And even worse than that is they talk about men the way white supremacists talk about blacks, as if they were dangerous animals who need to be handled properly/contained. This is even reflected in branches that are considered very mild mannered, with widespread campaigns like "teach men and boys not to rape."

joedapper · 2015-04-28T19:34:47+00:00

I like to think of myself as egalitarian. But in reality it doesn't play out that way. I like to think that women in my same profession make the same as me. I like to think that household chores aren't gender specific. I like to think that raising kids is for both the parents. I like to think that education is a neutral platform where boys and girls receive the same effort. (Whether or not they give the same effort is a different argument.) In all aspects of my life, a woman could be my equal. That's got to be egalitarian right?

However!, my experience with campus feminists have given me an "I don't care." attitude. Just by standing there talking with another man, we were "EVIL MEN" and ever since that 10 seconds standing outside Schroeder hall, I could give a damn about the feminist movement. After dealing with my cheating whore of an x-wife, and the ringer my brother has been put through by his cheating whore x-wife, and the court systems that support/encourage cheating-whore-culture, I really don't give a damn about anything feminist, and am an ever increasing champion of Men's Rights. I still like to think that all the non-toxic, non-cheating-whores out there are good women, who for all intents and purposes, are my equal. I just don't care.

iongantas · 2015-04-29T01:43:28+00:00

I consider myself an MRA and an Egalitarian. While I feel that it is important for women to have equal rights, I can't think of any serious way in which women are lacking in rights, compared to men, in first world countries, and many ways in which they are advantaged over men. Feminism is a female supremacy anti male hate movement disguised as an equal rights movement, and is incompatible with egalitarianism. Their complaints are trivial and/or trivializing, and they don't really want solutions, they just want a victim narrative so they can gain privileges and benefits.

rottingchrist · 2015-04-29T03:39:48+00:00

I prefer to leave the issues of the fish to them. They can manage without us bicycles.

azazelcrowley · 2015-04-29T11:58:52+00:00

If pressed to label my ideology on gender I would call myself a gender egalitarian or anti-sexist. I am also a part of a movement for mens rights.

Sort of like how I'm an animal welfare advocate, but also a member of the dog's trust.

SaigaFan · 2015-04-29T17:06:02+00:00

I'm a Feminist in the high ideal all people are equal sense, however life has taught me that is not what Feminism is about.

I also spend more time around this sub for a few reasons.

1) I have my first child, a boy, due in September.

2) I feel like very harmful And dangerous problems exist for men.

3) Feminist blogs, groups, and subreddits are hostile hug boxes :(

keeb119 · 2015-04-28T22:05:37+00:00

I'd say I'm egalitarian. To me, dv is dv it does not matter if you have a d or a v. Gender shouldn't be a reason why someone gets hired over someone else and they should get paid the same, some exceptions like a new hire shouldn't make the same as someone who's been there 10 years. A rapist teacher should spend a great deal of time in prison and be chemically castrated.

Captaincastle · 2015-04-28T22:10:48+00:00

I don't agree that mra and egalitarian are mutually exclusive

MRSPArchiver · 2015-04-28T19:21:31+00:00

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2015-04-29T01:42:32+00:00

I do consider myself to be an egalitarian foremost, meaning that I am OKAY with a Feminist as long as they proclaim to be egalitarian and that men do face issues in their own right. Again, I'm sort of polarized towards men's rights because Feminism doesn't accept and actively decries the idea of systemic oppression of men. I think MRA's do definitely have bias, but I don't feel like I have to buy into that to be in the group.

DrFriendless · 2015-04-29T01:17:12+00:00

I came to MRA land from Feminist land because I'm an egalitarian and I don't think Feminism is at all interested in equality. The exact phrase they use is "what about teh menz?". Men posting in feminist forums are not allowed to express a nuanced opinion, they must have drunk the kool-aid and gone completely batshit insane. Like any really large movement, Feminism has some crazy people, some smart people, some nice people, some bullies, and a whole bunch of followers who form a rah-rah crowd without actually doing much critical thinking. When disaffected women (i.e. women who believe they've been mistreated by men) form a rah-rah crowd, they cheer for the bullies and the crazy people. That looks really bad from our side. /r/MensRights is the most civil and well-spoken gender equality forum I've seen, so I tend to hang out here.

Jaykaykaykay · 2015-04-29T06:26:37+00:00

Egalitarianism is blatantly false in a literal sense, but also if you have some sort of abstract metaphysical belief in the equality of all which i won't bother arguing against as theres no evidence for that.

I don't think egalitarian thinking is the least biased way of thinking at all, especially concidering how it's been battered by reality again and again.

I might be in a minority, because egalitarianiwm masquerades as something nice and people want to be nice but it's incredibly flawed and leads to neccecary suffering if believed and practiced.

Fuck egalitarianism.

Title	Readers of r/MensRights, why do/don't you consider yourself egalitarian?
Author	tenyor
Upvotes	14
Comments	33
Date	April 28, 2015 7:21 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/346rt7/readers_of_rmensrights_why_dodont_you_consider/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/readers-of-rmensrights-why-dodont-you-consider.981638 https://theredarchive.com/post/981638

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