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thoughts on this: why some men fail and why it isn't as easy as blue, red, black pill make it out to explain (repost from an oc ppd comment)

September 7, 2022

myself: i spend most of my time, whether i want to or not, indoors at home. i live in a secluded town where most of the people are simply not desirable to interact with either due to vast gaps of social class or interests (think: reading books primarily in english along with other languages vs. watching a shit ton of tik tok and scrolling arabic facebook.) i do not exagerrate when i say there are no activity centers such as clubs and the like other than maybe language learning centers in here, and any further than that i couldnt convince my parents it's worth the gasoline to get there.

my parents are not mentally stable and generally the entire family is dysfunctional. my sister and i believe that my mother has npd and that my father is also some cluster b disorder. while i believe that i have come to adopt a relatively secure attachment style over the years from trial and error and introspection, i suspect that i have some degree of AvPD.

the people i interact with most are store clerks, my parents and my sister on any given day outside of uni where i am a cs student. but i live in MENA, so the class is actually close to 51:49 M:F gender split. (the female students being either taken, following their parents' advice not to hang out with dudes, unknown to me or simply uninterested.) now, do typical blue pill explanations hold here? i.e. "you just don't respect women", "you don't view them as people", "you're too selfish", "you're too rude", "you feel entitled to..."? i have no reason to think so. some redditors might point and laugh at my activity on this website for petty reasons, but as far as i can tell in real life, i was told by the women around me that i'm a pleasant person to be around, and have rarely if ever been accused of breaking boundaries or harassment. to the best of my memory, it hasn't happened since elementary school and that was more due to lack of social skills from being sheltered and banned from interacting with other kids outside class than being horny as i hadnt hit puberty yet.

do red pill explanations hold here? i.e. do i just need to be more alpha? it could be. i do not try to compete or "best" other men though at least on the student rankings i'm generally within the top 10 of my class. i'm also not the fittest man although i have visible muscle and i am not overweight at all. my bmi is 23.5, 5'9, 72 kg. but i'm also more or less complacent at times, i can't be productive from the moment i wake up to the moment i go to bed although i wish that were the case.

do black pill explanations hold here? likely. i'm on the shorter side compared to most of my male peers in college. the guys i've seen with women were without exception taller than myself. i also don't mask my stims all that well especially under stress (one teacher stopped to ask me close-up if i had autism so she could let me take a break. another apparently wanted me to "spend some time personally" with her and was just overall creepy and flirty with me while she was married, even had me sit on her desk once. (i was 18 and she was 40.) none of the people aside from my sister who had heard of this found anything strange with it, i'm a dissenting opinion.)

i also don't have much wealth to flaunt either and often run into dead ends making small talk just by following scripts in conversation. conversely, one female ppd user who was married and saw a pciture of myself claimed i was 8/10 along with another female user who's active on FAW that gave the same rating. my matches on dating apps, aside from a few i met at first that fizzled out, were all bots. one later turned out to recognize me from real life but had never met me close-up and said she wanted to get to know me better (that's still unfolding.)

i have witnessed one of my friends' gfs(now ex) try to humorously neg him whenever i got close to the both of them and it made me uncomfortable. another girl who once sought me out and gave me her number blocked me after she tried to convince me that i had asked for her number which i distinctly remember didnt happen and make me explain "why i did it." (gender reversed redpill???). she had dyed hair if that makes a difference. another one, a bit more goth, also had a bf and seemed to get all flirty with me in body language when she'd notice me or when i get close to her. i passed. i also got turned down once by a rather average-looking girl i liked, we're still friends. it had more to do with her state of mind than with my LMS i believe. her friends still wanted to set me up with her.

case study 2: 5'9 middle eastern man, same age as myself, currently in canuckstan for college. like myself, ex-muslim from a religious family. only time he had sex was with an escort he paid 300 CAD and he claims it wasn't worth it. he has a very masculine face yet a mediocre frame that he compensated for by working out. to the best of my knowledge, his personality is more aggressive / stoic than mine and he has gotten into school fights to prove himself to his bullies at an all-male high school back in his native country.

in another country, he witnessed a guy in senior hs i believe, very effeminate and tall, surrounded with female simps just for his looks even as he politely asked them to go away (this experience made him lean blackpill.) he interacts with very few people because he feels sick and alienated from society, and has had no matches on apps. on other social apps, he has befriended girls in our age range successfully.

he's also been on exactly one date before who quietly ghosted him after it went well for multiple hours. we believe that she had realized his height was shorter than that of her own female friends iirc as nothing else was obvious to us and as he says it, the outing went well for the both of them.

he currently struggles with his studies as he's not feeling driven but spends his time heavily researching medical articles on psychiatry and learning to use linux. note that he is also a CS major. he has medical issues that, while manageable, stress him considerably.

case study 3: racially mixed man living in europe. no euro ancestry. brown skin tone. younger than me by a couple years. very tall, say above 6 ft. underweight, he says and i believe it from the pictures i've seen. wears glasses. he voluntarily withdrew from the game. comes from a well-off family, studies well, has multiple hobbies. his experiences with women have led him to conclude that as an introvert who doesn't like his hobbies to be constrained by the sensibilities of others and prefers to play vidya and produce online content, etc. that he can't expect much luck his way.

he had a crush once. got turned down and it didnt really affect him. watched his friends get and lose girls, specifically one whose ex went twice for a gang member. others were obsessed with radical politics of which one went out of her way to take offense at his dark sense of humor, slung an accusation at him of racism against dark-skinned people even though he is one of them.

like the two other case studies above, does not identify as feminist nor as right-wing. we all lean more blackpill than blue or red as a result of our experiences , our observations of that of others and the scientific literature on human mating we've been exposed to, even if i don't take any of the pill colors as true in all circumstances.

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Post Information
Title thoughts on this: why some men fail and why it isn't as easy as blue, red, black pill make it out to explain (repost from an oc ppd comment)
Author no_bling_just_ding
Upvotes 0
Comments 31
Date September 7, 2022 11:05 PM UTC (3 months ago)
Subreddit /r/AllPillDebate
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/AllPillDebate/thoughts-on-this-why-some-men-fail-and-why-it-isnt.1139606
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/AllPillDebate/comments/x8jgbg/thoughts_on_this_why_some_men_fail_and_why_it/

[–]ummizazi 4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Not MENA but raised Muslim and was a hijabi. Honestly Muslim culture is not compatible with modern dating. Almost every married Muslim couple I know was fixed up by aunties.

Muslim men are very homosocial. They are perfectly fine not being with any women outside of the home. A lot get married out of obligation. I’ve seen maybe 3 Muslim couples where both were born Muslim and they seemed like they were in love.

I’ve known plenty of conventionally attractive Muslim men who seemed indifferent to women or super awkward. Part of it is there’s not public sexuality in Islam. A Muslim dude who trying to flirt might ask you to marry him if he thinks you’re chase or offer you money if he thinks you’re not.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I'm partially Arab though my Arab side is Christian but have you even seen what most Muslim majority countries are like, especially the youth in the richer nations? They definitely do date and all the 2nd and 3rd gen ones in the west hardly even adhere to their religions. I used to live in an area with a huge Palestinian community and almost all of the younger women were dating all kinds of guys

[–]ummizazi 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

2nd third Gen guys are better if they aren’t as religious. The ones from religious communities are different. I know reverts that send their kids to Islamic schools. Boys and girls are separated. These boys have a hard time.

Women fair easier because they are seen as exotic and evenif they’re good Muslim girls all types of men are into that. What I see from second Gen is guys who cheat a lot. They have a good Muslim girl at home but dudes are for the streets.

It also varies by region Pakistanis, Afghanis are hella awkward. Black Muslims are less awkward, those from the Maghreb seem to do better. Shams folks are more likely to fetishize black women.

But Muslim culture overall is gender segregated and it makes it harder for the men to deal with western dating.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Women just fare easier because of male testosterone, that's all. Fat women fare better than fat men. Short women fare better than short men. Disabled women fare better than disabled men. Brown women fare better than brown men. Dating is all a buyer's market for women so there's always a bunch guys into them regardless of their race and body type but the same can't be said for men.

I feel like the reason why a lot of brown men don't date is because it really isn't a choice. A lot of the Muslim ones find brides in their home countries because that's their only option. One of my Muslimcel online friends from a few years back told me that they can't even find Muslim brides locally in the west anymore because they have all these Tinder like marriage apps which only work for the top 10% of men in looks and it's now a common way for most younger Muslim couples to meet

[–]ummizazi 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I was a hijabi and got hit on more than when I wasn’t. Literally nothing else changed. There’s definitely a fetish for it. That’s why Jewish women wear wigs instead.

There a lot to dissect as about Muslim relationships. First is the value of virginity for women but only if you’re younger than 21, then it’s weird. Second is sex is completely forbidden pre marriage. Third you have to pay women to marry you. Fourth is women are the ones that are forced to wear Islamic clothing . Fifth is that so many men pick and choose which parts of the religion they want to follow.

It’s a complicated system ad sometimes being with a person who doesn’t have that baggage is easier.

But from what I see so many born muslims are with reverts that complaining about women not being interested is a bit hypocritical.

[–]kokorwqac 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wouldn't say disabled or brown women fare better, disabled is being seen as weird and dark skin is something unfortunately masculinized, though they accept it on white women

[–]TriggurWarning 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

A few comments to make here. Your height is not bad, but it's certainly not ideal (6 feet+). Your BMI is normal, but you probably don't do much strength training (another minus). And as sad as it may be, being muslim and non-white is not a boon to your dating case with white women, it's a negative unless dating another muslim (so you may have to rely on family connections or alternative means to find a girl).

Your personality might be able to be improved, but I doubt that is what's holding you back. You can go to therapy and all that shit, but it'll probably do nothing for you except give you some mental stability to brace against the shitstorm of life. The fact you have no money is also more and more problematic the older you get, but fortunately works in your favor more and more as older women start to get serious about marriage around age 25-27 (fully embracing the beta-male game is not a bad choice for some).

Good luck.

[–]SaltyGeekyLifter 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yup. Nailed it. Get stronger and work on himself in all aspects.

Aim to get more money, more status etc and be able to enjoy life more. The women will come. Consider moving too.

Also: I got a sense that there were some opportunities there that hadn’t been taken. Kid’s got to learn that he has to be a go-getter, rather than expecting things to fall in his lap.

[–]TriggurWarning 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Moving could also be great to keep that 'meet the parents' bullshit to a minimum given his unstable situation.

[–]BumblingBeta 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

"you just don't respect women", "you don't view them as people", "you're too selfish", "you're too rude", "you feel entitled to..."

Any woman who says this to you, she is 100% projecting. She is the one who views men this way. She needs to accuse you of doing these things to make her feel better about herself.

In fact, women project most of their faults onto men. It's just how they are.

[–]EnteFetz 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I guess it's also projecting in the sense that she constantly falls for aggressive/dominant men who treat her badly and therefore assumes all men treat women badly.

[–]Play_MutedDark Red Pill 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

im not reading all that

[–]you-arent-reading-it 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes. Pills can explain that.

Redpill says that if your closest 4 people are losers, you'll be the 5th one. You should find a way to get out of there. You can't? That's sad but pills explain that.

[–]no_bling_just_dingWhitePill (self aware MSTOW)[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

i agree

[–]RStonePTRedPill 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I really hate when a post starts off with such goofy premises. The only thing I can say for sure is you really haven't done your research into what Red Pill is.

It's men swapping notes, a collection of field reports describing men doing things and solving (or failing to) problems. It's all hypothetical imperatives with a poor rigor, high replication version of the scientific method.

When you say Red Pill doesn't explain ones personal situation it's missing the point.

  1. If you have X problem

  2. Y can help you solve it if your goal is similar to mine

  3. Because Y is what I've done to achieve that goal.

Thats why everything is hypothetical, everything is conditional. If you don't have the same goals as me, you may have a different solution. Luckily, men have more similarities with our problems than differences.

Also, it's a praxeology (think auto mechanics, not philosophy) so it really doesn't matter HOW one gets to a situation, only that others have been in a similar situation and offer their experiences for you to use as you see fit to fix YOUR situation. At the very least it's a list of cautionary examples so you don't make the same mistakes everyone else is making.

As for these 'hypothetical' examples everyone loves to use. I guarantee that 5 minutes with the guy IRL and any normal person will find 5 different and obvious problems he is avoiding that neglected to make the story... because being a special snowflake is the narrative and they get in the way.

I could be wrong, but 99% of the time I have not been.

[–]no_bling_just_dingWhitePill (self aware MSTOW)[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

As for these 'hypothetical' examples everyone loves to use.

the examples i listed are all real actual people. im already aware of those "different and obvious" issues, it seems theres not much i can do about it most of the time (not that im unwilling to do something, ive signed up for foreign exchange and my parents are getting in the way, i tried to stand up for myself with physical confrontation, etc). i can't "game" my mother into shutting the fuck up or kick her out of a home to which she owns the deed to retake control of my life.

[–]RStonePTRedPill 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I suppose you didn't notice that the first things in the redpill that everyone is told to act on is:

  • boundary enforcement
  • Assertive behaviour
  • goals that don't require other people to achieve them for you

There's a reason Dr. Glover, Manuel Smith appear before Rollo on the sidebar

i can't "game" my mother into shutting the fuck up or kick her out of a home to which she owns the deed to retake control of my life.

The obvious answer here is gainful employment, income, and you moving out, but I suppose that doesn't appeal to you.

[–]no_bling_just_dingWhitePill (self aware MSTOW)[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

i mean yeah those are common sense for me and ive pretty much internalized them with or without TRP

I suppose that doesn't appeal to you.

im in college and am still before that stage thats the only thing keeping me here otherwise id just hop away to a call center

[–]RStonePTRedPill 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

So you just want to bitch then.

Welcome to life. People often suffer temporary hardships. If this is as bad as it gets for you consider yourself lucky. Also, see above points on boundaries and assertiveness. You mom doing it today, a future wife or girlfriend doing it to you tomorrow.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

I also found it fascinating that so many good looking guys waste so much time in bl4ckpill communities only to succeed after actually trying a bit. Is it like the neo emo phase without getting sex part for zoomers?

[–]EnteFetz 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

What do you mean with "trying a bit"? I've been on dozens of first dates and still haven't managed to get a relationship. People tell me I'm an all right looking and interesting guy but I dry up panties wherever I go. I've been on several dating apps for more than 5 years now and only recently got some success by meeting women who are more than 8 years older than me.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (11 children) | Copy Link


Incels anxiously posting selfies kind of crack me up because so many of them are totally fine looking. Some are even pretty cute. It's just so obviously not the source of their problem.

[–]IHateNormis 2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Yes, it is their “personality” despite the fact that females still get with abusers and criminals

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Yes, it is. Not in the way you're thinking though.

Red pill pisses me off sometimes (misogyny and all) but there's a lot of things they're right about in terms of how attraction works.

[–]IHateNormis 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

So you mean “confidence” despite the fact that ugly guys with “confidence” get mocked

[–]no_bling_just_dingWhitePill (self aware MSTOW)[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

im aware its not looks in my case moreso other external factors

they are hard to manage though such as physical distance from peers and dependence on unsupportive people

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Other factors can definitely be hard to manage! No arguments there. But at least there's ways to work on a lot of them, unlike, say height (which does matter, but not nearly as much as blackpillers think, particularly off of OLD).

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Actually, it's because the good looking ones post their pics online because they already know they are good looking but they are attention seeking. Most don't post their pics and most are probably average to below average, which is no longer good enough in the dating world as a male

[–]kokorwqac 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Many of them are either autistic or victims of specific demographics

Most married men or men with gf's i see aren't chads or prettyboys

[–]revente 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Frankly after reading that i think that both bluepill and redpill would agree in your case. You could achieve some success if you actually made effort.

[–]decoy88A Black Dude♂️ 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

do typical blue pill explanations hold here?

Yes. “you need to get therapy” “see a professional” because your dysfunctional upbringing mentally fucked you.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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