"Holding frame" is dehumanising.

SnooMachines7712 · 2021-01-26T11:59:06+00:00

If you are fake for your lover, they love somebody you aren't.

ShitFacedSteve · 2021-01-26T13:21:39+00:00

I’m a man but I’d personally be very uncomfortable and disturbed if someone I was close to was completely emotionless as their dog died

JackieNaper1907 · 2021-01-26T12:32:44+00:00

Rollo is a filthy misogynist.

Saying that men shouldn't cry because crying and showing emotion is a silly woman's thing is both misandrist and misogynistic.

I told my boyfriend that he can cry everytime he wants to in front of me

cvntcvntcvnt · 2021-01-26T15:54:02+00:00

I heard Rollo on one of his streams say that men shouldn't cry when their dog dies if their girlfriend is standing next to him because she'll never look at him the same way. It will make him look weak.

Terrible. I can't imagine a greater prison.

Slowly, I'm coming to believe that these red pill gurus are drenched in anxiety that's hardcore repressed. Mayhaps that's no news to all of you lol

TheClockStruck2 · 2021-01-26T20:11:57+00:00

If your dog dies and you don't cry, I'm going to think you're a psycho.

BabeOfBlasphemy · 2021-01-26T12:59:11+00:00

The funny part is emotional unavailability is a pretty common reason for women to lose interest in a guy.

It’s more or less a turnoff for people in general and the only ones into it had emotionally unavailable parents and/or they’re insecure and see it as a challenge to prove their worth.

TRP thinks it means cool, alpha, and mysterious, but it really means unreliable and difficult/impossible to connect with.

StatusAnywhere8 · 2021-01-26T21:11:15+00:00

This is so sad.

The first time I seen my husband cry it was because I wanted to join the military. We were young. My family was abusing me. I needed a way out. I told him I needed to do this to save my own life. He cried because he was afraid of losing me. I cried because we'll I hated to see him hurt and I felt like it was my fault.

I never looked at him differently. He's a person with feelings. I still see him as my big ole viking bear. Regardless of how masculine he is, how strong he is I feel so good knowing I can support him emotionally.

These men are destroying other men. There's plenty of women out there who will love you no matter what emotional struggle you go through. This is the kind of rhetoric that reinforces self harm among young men.

I can empathize with this and hurts cause in our culture the roles are reversed and women are ridiculed for having emotions. So knowing how harmful this is just I dunno it just hurts.

saito200 · 2021-01-26T22:32:47+00:00

men shouldn't cry when their dog dies if their girlfriend is standing next to him

The sign of a man who represses his emotions. Tears are healing. Whoever this guy is just has a very superficial and psychopathic take on being human. His suggestion is really fucked up: your dog dies and the only thing in your mind should be what to do to manipulate women.

Fantastic!

Run away from such a human.

wellz-or-hellz · 2021-01-26T16:38:26+00:00

Yeah I’m a man and I’m emotional af I cry a lot, I’m seeing a girl rn and me and her both cried together yesterday. It was beautiful. Fuck the RP. Crying just shows you’re human.

ActionCopy · 2021-01-26T15:35:55+00:00

I don’t know if that Is what “holding frame” is but “frame” is the social theory that individuals have a collection of anecdotes and stereotypes, that they use to interpret, understand and respond to events.

It’s basically a filter that has been built with our biological and cultural influences that we use to make judgments in social interactions

For example, if you and rollo met, you two would hold different frames of mindsets, you think that “holding frame” (and I’m gonna guess your talking about the “masculine frame” most red pill dating coaches advise) is not being yourself while his frame would be men need to hold a masculine frame with specific set of rules. So in a sense, you also hold a frame

I just wanted to clear that up because the term “frame” really gets misused by the red pill...ALOT.

I’m not a follower of rollo so I don’t know whether there is more to this, but he isn’t completely wrong, like I said frame is the collection of stereotypes and, masculinity is stereotyped to be akin to the withdrawal of emotion.

Do I agree with this, absolutely not. Because....thats isn’t how humans behave (normally) and to be honest not crying when your dog dies is a bit...weird. But I want to point out a eureka moment that I had.

I realize now that, the red pill and its dating strategy is not about adhering to social norms or anything like that; it is specifically about getting RESULTS, that’s it and that’s why dark manipulation is preached most of the time. So whether it’s dehumanizing or unethical, it’s just about getting results with women (mostly).

It sounds terrible, but it works(at least for a while).

diceblue · 2021-01-27T02:10:59+00:00

Rollo is a jackass. Bluepill prof is too. Watch enough of these schmucks videos and it became apparent to me that they are such TRY HARDS. Like they just have to convince them themselves and everyone else they are alpha.

ExceptionFatale · 2021-01-27T03:52:22+00:00

Sigh, when will people learn that when you try to control and/or suppress nature, it most often has terrible consequences. Having emotions is part of being human, regardless of your gender and we all need outlets for the emotions we feel, sorrow and loss of a loved one be it two legged or four legged naturally brings us to tears because that's a healthy expression of sorrow. These people don't seem to grasp the concept that when you suppress your emotions from coming out in healthy natural ways, your brain is still going to find a way to release what you attempt to contain, and it can come out in toxic ways.

My dad stuffs his emotions and once or twice a year, he absolutely explodes in a scary rage. The pain he felt from my mother cheating on him came out in him drinking himself to sleep every night when I was in high school, he was a mess because he refused to talk to anyone about his feelings, and he's such a good guy, as his daughter, it breaks my heart. I'm sure most of us know at least one person that explodes in a rage because they don't vent their anger and frustrations in a healthy way.

Teaching other people to believe that this kind of behavior is more "manly" or "correct" is absolutely abhorrent. It makes me sad to think that their message is not only being heard but also possibly adopted by some men hearing it.

yomimaru · 2021-01-26T17:40:05+00:00

On a weird note, these same people always preach about never going down on a girl. I will eat whatever I please, you sorry-ass wackos.

rainbowbarfff · 2021-01-26T23:41:52+00:00

I would honestly consider it a huge fucking red flag if a guy's dog dies and he doesn't cry. I would think he's a sociopath or something.

xvszero · 2021-01-26T17:53:08+00:00

This is dumb shit. I've cried in front of my wife many times.

DemandPsychological · 2021-01-27T12:21:17+00:00

Crying: Acceptable at funerals and the grand canyon. Ron Swanson

I rest my case.

Weebie69 · 2021-01-27T16:28:41+00:00

Its not dehumanising its just stupid, It might help you pick up a girl you probably find out later you could of picked her up anyway if you were just you.

Philipparty · 2021-01-28T01:21:21+00:00

Frame as in mindsett is a good thing. Thats what RSD usually promotes.

Frame as in "Im the one with value here, youre lucky I even bothered talking to you" is fake and unhealthy

GoldSmith64 · 2021-02-01T05:06:27+00:00

Crying is okay just do it in private. Avoid crying in front of other people cause unfortunately it doesn’t matter what the situation is you will be judged.

Cry in private. Easy solution.

Mh882130 · 2021-01-26T15:39:54+00:00

Where I think RP is trying to come from on this is the following.

When a moment of crisis occurs, especially one that involves the high potential for negative emotional responses (crying being the only emotion both positive and negative) it is of mine and many other mental health workers opinions that one adult in the household needs to remain as emotionally centered as possible.

For it is a heavily proven fact that emotion does not solve problems effectively as that is not what it is designed to do. It is designed to give you the need to solve the problem but to do so requires logic. That is because you feel the way you think. You also see the way you think. Thus if you are thinking and feeling sad things you see the world in a sad lens and are not seeing clearly. This is what is called our emotional memory and why one partner can view their partner positively when things are good but tend to view them negatively or flawed when things are bad.

Thus it is recommended one adult to try and remain as logical as possible in moments of crisis...

BUT.

Once the moment is done and solved that is when the roles should switch IMO. That is when the logical person should be encouraged to let their emotions out and the prior emotional person should be there for support.

And that is the part RP leaves out and I would say because most rp people were prior social rejects awkward or outcasts they probably are relying on their negative experiences with showing weakness. They were most likely bullied, made fun of laughed at felt shame and guilt and where reassured emotions bad. But they aren’t. They are apart of life. Though I would argue we don’t need the amount we tend to accumulate but I am also BPD and when I feel, I feel way more than most people and I feel very quickly so I could be projecting here.

The other areas of frame control such as dominance control etc, are also mistaken and misused because they are again IMO traits one should have BUT in their mindset only.

You should have the mindset WHEN NEEDED and usually ONLY when dealing with negative people who are trying to bring you down or make you feel less than equal or lower than them or trying to put their own agenda in your head. Also this reframing of the mind is great in not letting personal pain control your life as you are the only person who controls how emotional painful or hurtful something is.

But like everything they do RP takes a healthy concept and they change it to something unhealthy by saying things like you are the prize (All partners are prizes) you always maintain control dominance don’t let her speak or do things you don’t like don’t be weird or funny. Be mr manly man. And then these guys wonder why most can’t keep a women similar to how nice guys can’t.

Sadly the only diff is the nice guys getting to get, get very little, while these Alphas using a more confident getting to get, get better results short term but same long term outcome. Yet because they are getting more they don’t care because they have an abundance mindset. One goes more will stay or they have some. Then other guys getting to get see this and jump in or you have those who stumble on this way of thinking in their very lowest point and jump in thinking it’s what saved their life after a divorce hard break up etc which is probably the worst thing you can do.

bluingmyself · 2021-01-26T17:56:04+00:00

I heard Rollo on one of his streams say that men shouldn't cry when their dog dies if their girlfriend is standing next to him because she'll never look at him the same way.

I'm not sure how this is RP ideology, or "holding frame" specifically. "holding frame" applies to conversation and particularly when conflicts arise. How is your dog dying and your GF being present there has anything to do with it?

The closest thing to "holding frame" in that situation I can think of doing would be to cry or whatever you wanna do, and IF anyone does think you're weak just say "I wouldn't expect you to understand" or something to INVALIDATE their view that you doing whatever you did (crying) was wrong (a sign of weakness).

Title	"Holding frame" is dehumanising.
Author	JuStShAvEyOuRhEaDbRo
Upvotes	83
Comments	38
Date	January 26, 2021 10:21 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/l5ba8m/holding_frame_is_dehumanising/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/holding-frame-is-dehumanising.741005 https://theredarchive.com/post/741005

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