Red Pill “Bad Boy/Nice Guy” Dynamic

Exis007 · 2023-12-16T12:50:35+00:00

So, I've said this before but here I go.

When I was 21, I dated a guy who wore a leather jacket and flip flops all winter. He drove a sports car. He had a lye burn on his hand because he saw Fight Club and was curious. He took me out to 2$ rum and coke night and we closed down the bars. We went to weird theater shows that didn't start until midnight. He dressed in drag and went to Rocky Horror with me. We stayed up all night listening to vinyl records and talking about philosophy.

Now I'm 36. I'm married to someone who drives a sensible sedan. He's in bed at 10 PM. We have a house and pets and a toddler. His concerns now are home repairs and getting to the dentist and being an amazing parent. He turns down the beer at the party because he doesn't want to be in any way impaired when he's driving home with a kid in the backseat.

The M. Night Shyamalan twist here is that this is the same guy. These are different people my husband used to be. The guy who used to have strangers try to sell him mushrooms on the train platform at random is the guy who is very concerned with what we put in the 529 plan this year. What happened here is we got old. What was fun and cool when we were young, young kids running around the city together stopped being fun and cool as we got older. Our priorities changed. Our bodies stopped cooperating when we had to get up the next morning after we did dumb things. We started looking at the future and thinking about how to put down roots, save money, plan for what was going to be important 5, 10 years down the road. We started accumulating responsibilities. He had a shoulder injury that made the sports car a lot less fun to drive. We had dogs that needed to be fed and walked and we had to be home in time to do that. This is just the natural transformation of getting older, fully embracing more adult priorities, and maturing.

So I don't think this refers to anything at all except getting older, personally. I think we're all jackasses as kids. I think almost everyone grows out of it. Some exceptions may apply. I don't think this applies to men more than women or women more than men. Redpill takes this natural evolution everyone goes through and pathologizes it in women saying this is somehow unique to them. People are bad at dating when they are kids, too. You pick people who aren't as good of a fit because you don't know yourself and what you want as well. You haven't learned to draw boundaries yet, you put up with more terrible behavior, and you talk yourself into liking things you might not really like very much. But you learn. You get better at picking and knowing who is and isn't right for you. You try on different versions of yourself to figure out which ones are most comfortable. I can't say for certain, but everyone I know went through some version of this. Dating someone really wrong for them, giving up the wild and crazy shit they used to do, adopting responsibilities that cut into their antics, having kids, having a health crisis, getting a serious job, or what have you.

They are just pathologizing the aging process because they can't see women as people. Women have a type that's supposed to be unchanging and absolutely stable from their teenage years through adulthood? Better to say they betray it (for money, I guess?) than to acknowledge they are individual people who learn and grow and change and get older. And while we're at it, ignore that men do the same damned thing. I'll get down on my knees and kiss the floor every morning that I'm not the same person I was at 21. And I'm very glad I'm not married to someone who is the same person HE was at 21. I really liked being her, I'm glad I got to do it, I love her and think of her fondly. But I don't want to time-travel back to that. If you're young yourself yet, that might be hard to internalize. But, trust me, it'll come for you too. It's sad when you realize the tilt-a-whirl makes you very sick, that dancing in heels all night means you can't walk the next morning, and when loud, crowded parties just stop giving you anything but a headache. But it comes for us all.

Ifhes · 2023-12-16T12:59:46+00:00

"What even is a bad boy?" Yeah, that's a good question. I think it is whatever fits the stereotype of a guy that is popular with women and others tend to just look for the bad traits in them out of jealousy. "nice guys™" are not actual nice people, but men who social anxiety and failed attempts to date a woman lead them to weird ideas about lack of rizz that eventually evolves in a false understanding that love and sex is transactional. "If I'm nice, I'll get love/sex, and if it fails I'll be super annoyed".

2023-12-16T16:03:45+00:00

When we are young, we are more likely to take risks, date different kinds of people, and we are immature ourselves and not the best partners.

As we age, we become better at relationships. We grasp what’s important. We realize it’s cool and good to take care of ourselves and others. We become better at filtering for quality partners.

To any jaded dude, this may look on the outside like dating “bad boy” types then transitioning to more stable people. Turns out, we begin to appreciate integrity and stability with age. Both men and women. It’s a factor of normal human development, not a shallow thing women do.

ashchelle · 2023-12-16T10:56:46+00:00

There are a lot of women who have experienced trauma in some capacity so I think "bad guy vibes" are essentially replicating that trauma for those women which is why it's reported as having a lot success.

I think the shift from bad guy to good guy is more about them healing their trauma and realizing that bad guys are just recreating their trauma bonds. When you've done the work, you realize you don't want a bad guy, you want someone stable and loving. I don't think it's about settling. I think that's what red pill/Pua types tell themselves when they see a drop off in interest. Healing trauma takes time which is probably why these groups are trying to pull age into the discussion.

oldcousingreg · 2023-12-16T06:07:23+00:00

This assumes every woman has the exact same dating experiences and preferences in a partner.

Allusionator · 2023-12-16T14:55:31+00:00

Literally first you need to figure out how to love yourself. All of this other stuff is built up on top of that core problem of you needing a woman to validate yourself. Whoever you are is already worthy of love, including romantic love, regardless of you not being a male stripper or bad boy or whatever other cultural nonsense model of manhood you feel you need to be to be worthy of love.

ROBYoutube · 2023-12-16T08:52:45+00:00

A Bad Boy is a man who is successful with women. That's all. Because the men who are not good with women have trouble with nuance, they reason that since they fail so hard at something, in order to not fail you need to be the opposite of them. Naturally they are smart, reasonable, virtuous, loving, kind, caring, attentive etc so the bad boy is not those things.

TLDR it is a cope by people who don't know what they're fucking talking about.

liveultimate · 2023-12-17T18:12:17+00:00

“Bad boys” usually have more confidence than “nice guys.” Gee, I wonder who girls will be more attracted to

Now flip it around. A bad boy who likes to do crazy shit but is scared of talking to women compared to a kind, confident guy who isn’t scared of talking to women. Who’s more attractive in that case?

AssistTemporary8422 · 2023-12-16T07:40:50+00:00

There are some women who are attracted to ex-cons, famous killers, or abusive men but they are in the minority and their issues can be traced back to childhood trauma.
Bad boys tend to be more physically attractive. So being physically attractive may make someone more likely to be bad, or seen as bad, or bad boys are more likely to focus on their looks.
Most bad boys aren't bad to women when they start dating and are often very nice.
Bad boys are more narcissistic which can come off as confident which is a very attractive trait.
Bad boys are more likely to be manipulative and lie in dating. Cheating can get results unfortunately.
Bad boys tend to be less needy and approval seeking and less afraid to offend so they say things that are polarizing and come off as authentic and really attract those who are into it.
The bad boys we complain about tend to be more social and socially skilled. The bad boys who are terminally online aren't doing so well.
Bad boys tend to initiate, flirt, make moves. Nice guys tend to be shy and overly platonic.
Bad boys have less anxiety. Many nice guys clearly have social anxiety.
Many bad boys hold positions of status like football team or financial wealth.
Bad boys are more assertive and tend to lead more.
Nice guys are often boring because they avoid edgy stuff or lack social skills while bad boys tend to be funnier.
I saw a commenter who discussed a very nice friend who was very successful in dating while being average looking. Different women have different preferences.
Bad boys tend to struggle in long term relationships.

99power · 2023-12-17T06:26:05+00:00

Any man whose personality is significantly outside of “average Joe” is attractive to women. These guys have carved out a niche for themselves as being slightly sociopathic and they attract a certain type of woman. You shouldn’t imitate these men, you should find out what makes you unique and lean into it.

tenebrasocculta · 2023-12-17T21:27:10+00:00

I think many people, especially young people, mistake emotional turbulence for passion and get a rush off the highs and lows of being in an unstable, unpredictable relationship. This is not a gendered phenomenon. Men do the exact same shit, except they call the women who introduce turbulence into their lives "crazy bitches" instead of "bad girls."

itsTacoOclocko · 2023-12-16T14:43:05+00:00

so... when this does happen... what's usually happening is that people with unresolved trauma, self-esteem or self-efficacy deficits, a history of abuse will tend to seek out partners who feel familiar (i.e. are also abusive) or are what they believe they deserve (i.e. crap). a lot of people with a history of childhood trauma or abuse will also derive self-worth from the idea of self-sacrifice, of being able to 'save' someone.

so... you do get women who go for not-great men. it's not for any of the reasons TRP suggests, nor is it because women enjoy abuse or want to be abused.

as people get older and learn from experience, they realize that, while they might be drawn to abusive or problematic men those men are not good partners, they're miserable with them, these men hurt them and hold them back, they're unfair, they deserve better, etc. they're not 'settling' for a 'nice guy'-- they're learning how to trust genuinely good people, and that they deserve genuinely good people as partners.

sometimes decent people are labelled as 'bad boys' too, for stereotypical reasons. like... if someone is tall and jacked and drives a motorcycle-- and those things might appeal to some women, but the clincher for them might also be that he's secure in his masculinity and generous and caring. if you aren't intimately familiar with the people in question you don't really know the actual relationship dynamic.

otherwise, regarding women who actually say they settle-- they either have issues with internalized misogyny or they're compromising on some quality-- like 'this person isn't my physical ideal but he's kind/wealthy/whatever'. that's going to depend on the person, but in order to 'settle' the person is still equally attractive (by default, since they have attracted the woman in question) but maybe less exciting. in that case... nothing precludes love and thus excitement growing from the partnership-- the initial infatuation might be less intense or dramatic, but the relationship on the whole can be just as satisfying and fulfilling and fun. (i'd also add-- the initial infatuation is likely to be less intense and dramatic for the simple reason that people do 'mellow' emotionally as they mature-- when you're young everything is incredibly fraught, and as you get older you tend not to see relationships as life-or-death).

some people's preferences simply change with experience and/or age, too, and people mature. teenagers are sometimes more superficial than adults-- some people might be really fixated on looks when they're young (precisely because they're not looking for a serious commitment) and then focus on other qualities (that are more conducive to a healthy long-term commitment) as they grow.

some people are not very good at introspection and/or have poor foresight and/or are users, and will be with someone they resent, too. that does happen. that's not what most people do, though-- it's self-defeating.

A_very_Salty_Pearl · 2023-12-19T04:40:05+00:00

Most women who go for "bad boys" aren't looking for a boy who's bad.

They want someone who loves them, who is kind to them, and who is loyal.

"Bad guy" claims to be all of that. Plus, he is handsome and exciting. What's not to like? The abuse creeps in slowly and creates more attachment. It's not that we like his "bad" side, it's that we love his "good" side. He conditions us to think that the "bad" is our fault, and we should work really hard into making him return to good.

It can take a few years for us to realize the cycle that is repeating. That's why one day, we start looking for the opposite, the "plain guy who is stable and kind to everybody".

But do you wanna know the shitty secret you eventually find out? That there's no "hot guy = bad" "plain guy = good" dichotomy. Plain/less social guys can hurt you and manipulate you just as bad.

There's no true dichotomy. A beautiful family member married an unattractive man she dated since she was a teen. He practically locked her at home, would cheat on her, wouldn't allow her to get a job. Treated her like his beautiful property. Then she divorced him, found a tall, green eyed, buff, broke man. Destroying her family for some thrills. They'd literally call him "her boy toy", to his face.

That man is my father. He's the best man, husband and father I have ever met. Even my sibling from mom's previous marriage considers him a father. He's my one reason for not hating men.

There's someone (or multiple people) for everyone out there. But you can't blame most women for trying to find someone who's attractive and kind before trying to find someone who's just kind. They're almost as likely to be unattractive and unkind, tbh, and that's the real reason some guys are constantly alone. They're unattractive and unkind, in a way you can sniff from miles away, because their manipulation skills aren't yet fine tuned. Why would anyone approach? Would you, if the situation was reversed?

2023-12-16T19:40:56+00:00

Ok, so here's the thing. I'm both of those guys. We'll I still lean the first way, and I'll say why. So I was the bad boy, raced motocross, wrestled, played football, 6'5, and put together. I was always in trouble for fighting, always had girls around, turned 21, started security at a well-known strip club, escorted porn stars, and became private body guards for some adult stars. This life attracted women, but most were the wrong women.. I got married, which turned into a complete disaster, because she was a bigger ho than the girls I protected. I left her and calmed down a lot by my early 30s, met the right woman, became a Christian, and got remarried. When I divorced my first wife, I had to grow up fast. I had sole custody of 2 kids. Ended up having another with my new wife. Here's the thing you can be a bad boy, and still a good guy too. I still have sport bikes, and a drag car, I'm a complete adrenaline junky. I have to reel myself in a lot. Don't sell yourself short. There are tons of women who steered clear of the bad boy guys.

Narrow_Study_9411 · 2024-01-02T13:33:57+00:00

Women don't like the "nice guys" and I have found that out first hand. So until then, I've got to believe the RP guys 100%.

Title	Red Pill “Bad Boy/Nice Guy” Dynamic
Author	NoRefrigerator267
Upvotes	26
Comments	72
Date	December 16, 2023 5:39 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/18jkce5/red_pill_bad_boynice_guy_dynamic/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/red-pill-bad-boynice-guy-dynamic.1240877 https://theredarchive.com/post/1240877

Comments