How does left not understand that hating men will just turn more men to the right?

goldenjuniper · 2020-10-13T02:49:04+00:00

Feminists will claim that it's just a few crazies doing this and they aren't REAL feminists.

And yet I NEVER see feminists denounce any "All men are trash" posts.

In fact, most feminists will defend those phrases.

geeses · 2020-10-13T02:39:22+00:00

In moral philosophy, there are two ways of thinking about yourself.

Are you a good person because you do good deeds or do you do good deeds because you are a good person.

A lot of these people take the latter approach. But somehow it got twisted into "I'm a good person, therefore what I do is good."

One of those things being hating men, or at least blaming for all of society's problems.

It's societally acceptable and to them it's morally good, so why wouldn't they do it. If someone telling them not to, they hear it the same that as if someone says "you shouldn't condemn racists or they might vote against you."

As it is a moral idea, it is about whether the action itself is good or bad, rather than the aftereffects of the action.

If it leads men to become more right, that's simply proof they were correct from the beginning.

The constant talking about oppression and male privilege and that sort of thing kills off any sympathy they might have for men as a group.

2020-10-13T03:38:58+00:00

They know it on some level, they just think men are morally wrong for doing so. In the dominant framework they, along with certain other identities (you likely all know which) should take the abuse they are dishing out because it is their duty to be the punching bag for them. I wrote a similiar comment about the whole thing some days ago on here:

There was a great realignment in the period of 2013-2016 of online white men/boys becoming less and less left wing and turning to the right, mostly, at first, because of feminism, later the blatant anti-white attitudes in left wing spaces.

Its politics, if you don't pander to a demographic they lose interests in your platform, if you outright hate them they'll lose it even faster.

It blows my mind that left wingers know this in regards to literally every other group, BUT majorities--who they think are morally obliged to be a doormat/punching bag.

A great deal of leftwingism on social media is also just really about being abusive and cloaking it in some narrative of being oppressed to use it and if you are oppressed there has to be an oppressor. Great! Not only do you get to feel victimized, but you get to hate someone also. The fact that men go to the Right just proves their worldview for them, it doesn't get deeper than a surface thought that perhaps they're going to the right because of the treatment they're getting on the left, but if it's the left's fault for men going right then that means leftism is faulty and that can't be right so it must be some inherent fault in men, as we all knew all along. You see how the reasoning goes.

dtyler86 · 2020-10-13T03:42:03+00:00

Funny to see this. My best friend has never voted in a presidential election, we’re 34. He’s actually been kind of liberal and just the other day we spoke on the phone and he straight up said “I think Trumps a piece of shit, but with how much Twitter and social media constantly tried to make me feel bad or guilty for being a white man, I cant possibly vote for Biden”

Sums it up entirely.

jkjkjij22 · 2020-10-13T03:59:04+00:00

a thought I had:
Feminism has been successful with the narrative that some of what they are fighting for is also beneficial for men (there is some truth to this; eg "macho" attitude being bad for men). In the same way, men's issues are also beneficial for women. Eg. I would not be surprised if most assault of women is done by men who have fallen through the cracks of society (eg villainization, neglect by the school system). Paternity leave would make it easier for women to pursue their careers. a more equitable criminal justice system would fragment fewer families and decrease burden on women. etc.
This isn't a perspective men's rights groups have leveraged, but I think it could be a powerful way to bridge the gap, decrease fighting between groups and increase the time we spend fighting issues that harm everyone.

GaborFrame · 2020-10-13T07:38:44+00:00

They are creating their own bogeyman. The more supposed male white supremacists there are, the more they can argue how much they need intersectional feminism. Receiving hate confirms their idea that they are the victim.

sportsdude523 · 2020-10-13T03:22:48+00:00

there's too much confirmation bias on the left. this is how too many think:

"that person gave me a mean look

... it's because i'm (insert oppressed gender or minority here)."

\^that person could have just been having a bad day.

NotherThrowaway284 · 2020-10-13T01:19:12+00:00

understand

On the Left and the Right I just haven't met many people interested in that anymore.

The-Author · 2020-10-13T07:35:13+00:00

This honestly reminds me of an article I read (I think it was on the Atlantic) that was similar to this, but it was concerning the different ways the left treats muslims and white people.

Leftists will generally accept the idea that islamophobia directed at Muslims will make it easier for terrorists groups to gain converts due to it antagonising them and making it harder to win over moderate Muslims.

But when presented with the same idea, but focused on white people, and that the left's actions may actually be galvanising people towards the far right/ right supremacy, it was seen as inherently ridiculous and dismissed.

I think the reason behind this is simple; it's not okay to criticise feminism. Just about every ideology has things/ people that are okay, sometimes even, encouraged to hate, whilst having somethings that are not okay to hate/criticise.

Saying Muslims are turning extremist because of the hate being directed at them by islamophobes/ western society is acceptable because islamophobes/ western society are, according to modern social justice, acceptable to hate on.

But saying men are turn right-wing because of the actions of feminists is unacceptable because it isn't acceptable to criticism feminism within the ideology of modern social justice,at least when it comes to criticizing it for treating men badly.

Edit: the name of the article is How Rhetoric on the Left Fuels Bigotry on the Right, in case any of you are interested.

joeclark5 · 2020-10-13T02:47:57+00:00

I think men not standing up for themselves is responsible for man-hating becoming so mainstream and acceptable. It could have been nipped in the bud in the early 90s if men had spoken up about the misandry in sitcoms and commercials, but it might be too deeply entrenched to fight it now that it has infiltrated politics and the legal system.

enjoycarrots · 2020-10-13T01:38:41+00:00

The far right intentionally targets disenchanted young men who are put off by man-hating trends in feminism. And they've found it a very successful recruiting ground. The good news, I think, is that we're finally seeing the beginnings of course correction on this front from the left, generally. I don't have a great deal of evidence to back up that feeling. But I do think that tides are starting to shift on the man-hating. I hope. Maybe.

Alataire · 2020-10-13T09:42:22+00:00

I have talked to some of these "leftists" in the context of how the democrats are pushing away poor (white) voters by shitting on them, and calling them "deplorable". The explanation that they gave was of the sense "Well, if they don't want to be called deplorable, they should not vote for people with deplorable policies".

They firmly believe that hating men is fine, because the "good ones" know that they are not talking about them. Which is pretty ironic, or perhaps perverse is a better word, considering this group is huge on terms like "micro agressions" and policing language.

But let's set one thing right (pun intended). These are not economical leftists or egalitarians. These are identity politicians. As far as I know Hillary Clinton is a neoliberal, something which in the developed world puts her on the right side of the political spectrum. The identity politics is just a way of claiming to be left-wing, and making it okay to shit on people who have it badly, "haha these white trash, they should have just used their white-trailer-trash-privilege".

Russelsteapot42 · 2020-10-13T09:14:51+00:00

I've actually seen a recent shift in this area. For instance, Vaush has repeatedly said that the tendency toward blatant and simple misandry is one of the greatest weaknesses that the left needs to overcome.

Try his series on incels for a sense of where he's coming from, and understand that he's one of the biggest rising figures on the left over the last year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruI2al12sXE

2020-10-13T23:49:19+00:00

Great post!

I support Welfare State. I support banning guns -- they are responsible for 572,000 deaths in USA 1999-2016. As a Jew I oppose White Nationalism.

But I am not Democrat due to Misandry.

Melthengylf · 2020-10-13T03:50:29+00:00

They may well be trying to gain white women, and they are choosing their priorities.

DevilComeKnockin · 2020-10-14T10:34:30+00:00

It's a common saying in the #WalkAway Campaign that :"I didn't leave the Left, the Left left me..." There's alot of that sentiment out there. This is no different. I think that the Left understands this, but feels that since the majority of Democrats voters are women and POC, having men (mostly white, but black dudes get a bad rap as well) as a scapegoat will energize their base. And they are correct, in that regard.

But I think there's more to it than just that. Back in the late 70's, the Southern Baptist Convention and allied groups made a concerted effort to take over the Republican party, which was mostly successful. That's how you got the "God, Guns and Hate" republican party of the 80-2000's. Alot of those politicians are still there, example: Mitch McConnell. But with the arrival of Trump, alot of them retired, believe it or not. Some (the Never-Trump bunch) even joined forces with the Democrats, because they became a bastion of long-term political establishment types.

I think something similar has gone on here. Back in the early 2000's, there was alot of rancor about the "Corporate Democrats" among lower-class leftists. The Occupy Wall-Street event is a prime example of this. So you ended up with people like AOC and others seizing control of Democratic seats. Now add in college identitarians slowly working their way up through most industries over the past 30 years, particularly in HR (for some reason), and you had a slow but steady institution of anti-male policies and attitudes across the corporate world.

It's been building momentum for decades, and only recently exploded into the headlines following the Kavanaugh hearings and #MeToo. A great deal of this revolves around Cancel Culture on Twitter and DDOS attacks, which the Left base makes heavy use of. Institutions desperate to avoid looking bad ramp the "Wokeness" to Eleven. So you get vast misandry and scape-goating, with a very spiteful "rub your nose in it" attitude. They WANT to humiliate men, they WANT to add injury to insult. They are getting off on the power-rush and ego-boost.

But I've been around long enough to see what happens when the political pendulum swings the other way, and HOLY SHIT it is going to happen to a depth that borders on fiction. In ten years, the Intersectional bubble is going to burst with immense ugliness. Start making personal preparations now.

adam-l · 2020-10-13T06:07:27+00:00

The Left has been almost totally coopted by bourgeois feminism. It has practically replaced class analysis for feminism, i.e. the "women are wonderful" political position. It makes sense, when you have the middle class occupying all the top posts in left organizations: why would they need a radical change, that would deprive them of their relatively privileged positions in society - and especially as regards females' sexual preferences?

The Left has lost its morality, its self, and of course the war. It will be decades - or more - before it gets back on its feet, and most probably it never will.

matrixislife · 2020-10-13T06:49:42+00:00

I don't know about actually turning right-wing, I was a student during the miners strikes etc, but I'm finding it very hard to trust the left-wing nowadays. Horseshoe theory is making a lot of sense nowadays. If there's no moderate option then I'll pass on voting.

a-man-from-earth · 2020-10-13T07:42:37+00:00

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algoritm420 · 2020-10-13T16:14:44+00:00

Hey guys, right winger here. For whatever reason I think you are right not just with hate against males but, in my opinion, it seems that there is a lot of hate from so-called-leftists towards quite a few different demographics, men included. I am not sure if this is just my view of things but it definitely seems that way to me. I don’t think I would call these hate mongering people true leftists though.

DarkLightOfMar · 2020-10-13T01:32:23+00:00

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freebrianwilliams · 2020-10-13T04:50:05+00:00

It’s interesting and unfortunate. The gender divide for Trump support is huge. Almost like 70% of men are supporting trump. I’m voting for Biden for obvious reasons but i understand the frustration.

Terraneaux · 2020-10-13T20:30:30+00:00

Buddy maybe proofread your post next time.

liztu_june · 2020-10-14T22:03:16+00:00

Most feminist can't understand that patriarchy treats young men as second class citizens because they don't want competition, this is why it rare to see young men in positions of power.

Title	How does left not understand that hating men will just turn more men to the right?
Author	frspeech
Upvotes	139
Comments	142
Date	October 13, 2020 1:14 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/ja3omf/how_does_left_not_understand_that_hating_men_will/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/how-does-left-not-understand-that-hating-men-will.1194483 https://theredarchive.com/post/1194483

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